If You Could Pursuade CNO to do One Thing Differently...

[BamaMoon]

Saturday against OU was a classic case of our offense bogging down and needing "something" else. Until late, both Philon and Holloway weren't scoring factors and had they not "woke up," we probably would have lost this game (especially with the poor FT shooting down the stretch).

Thankfully, Sherrell played a very good game. He hit a couple of 3's, but more importantly, he was a factor in the paint/at the rim.

One time (it was probably an accident or misalignment), but we had Sherrell come up for the high ball screen, which commonly initiates our half-court offense, and then he dropped back into the paint. Philon still had the ball up around the top of the key and the other three shooters were on the opposite side of the court as Sherrell. I say it was probably a misalignment because we usually don't have 3 shooters that bunched together and instead, we have a shooter in the corner on the other side of the court. But, in this case, with only Philon and Sherrell beng the only two players on that side of the court, it almost looked like an "iso" with Sherrell as Philon feed him the ball. This gave Sherrell the opportunity to face up and go one-on-one with his man OR he could have backed him down toward the lane.

That's the kind of "tweak" I'm talking about. Sherrell is athletic enough to get by him, man, and (theoretically) strong enough to back his guy down in the paint.

 

[BamaBooey]

I think more iso ball with Sherrill and/or PNR offense specialized for him will go a long way for this team and for future athletic big men to become interested in playing for Oats.

 

[Bama Shoals]

Did you notice the play coming out of halftime against Oklahoma that resulted in Allen passing it to Sherrell underneath the basket for a dunk? That play caught my attention because we actually ran offense away from the ball. There were screens that were set away from the ball which we almost never do, and it resulted in an easy dunk. They need to mix that kind of offense in more often instead of just relying on high pick and rolls or drive by your man and dish it out.

 

[BAMARICH]

I think more iso ball with Sherrill and/or PNR offense specialized for him will go a long way for this team and for future athletic big men to become interested in playing for Oats.

I liked the time Sherrill caught the ball on the wing and upon realizing he had the corner, he drove to the basket. First time I can recall him doing that, but you can tell he was comfortable doing it. #22 is coming along nicely.

 

[bamacpa]

Some examination of our conditioning and practice program seems in order as we struggle with injuries really just about every year. This year is uncanny.

 

[CajunCrimson]

I’d encourage Nate to break the NCAA. But he may have just beat me to it.

 

[CajunCrimson]

Some examination of our conditioning and practice program seems in order as we struggle with injuries really just about every year. This year is uncanny.

Sometimes I wonder if it has more to do with managing minutes and rev share contracts. Lots of teams dealing with the same stuff. Arguably Kentucky’s two best players barely play.

 

[Coach D]

I guess CNO did read this thread based on this week. (Blue font)

 

[bamacpa]

Some examination of our conditioning and practice program seems in order as we struggle with injuries really just about every year. This year is uncanny.

Bediako gets dinged up in his first practice.

 

[BamaMoon]

I guess CNO did read this thread based on this week. (Blue font)

LOL...another poster called me and said the same thing!

 

[alabama mike1]

Get someone that can rebound on a consistent basis.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

...All I know is that the percentage from 10 feet and 3 pt range is eerily close to each other. So midrange (mathematically) isn’t a smart shot in his approach.

This is correct. And remember that CNO's offense is actually structured to get points in the following order:

1. Uncontested layups
2. Free Throws
3. Open threes

CNO's players are not prohibited from taking mid-range twos, but they are well-grounded (i.e., well-coached) in the philosophy and expected point values, and it shows in any Alabama shot chart.

At the same time, in no interactive sport can you optimize your outcomes based solely on the expected point value per play in isolation from all the other plays in a game or season. Optimizing also requires understanding and applying game theory - how my distinct actions affect the behavior of my opponent on subsequent encounters. Let's use football as an example.

If as an OC I only ever call (or can expected my guys to execute when called) runs and long pass plays, the defense has an easier job because they don't have to defend the flats or the midrange. This was basically Alabama's offense with Milroe - a threat to run or hit a long pass, but short- to mid-range passes were either not called or poorly executed when called. In no small part it also explains Ryan Williams' production drop off after the 2024 UGa game: the opponents figured it all out, defended accordingly, and we didn't have the ability to adjust, with the well-documented effect on 2024 Alabama's offensive balance and success. Why was IU so effective on offense this year? They had a 60%/40% run play/pass play attack that produced a 47%/53% yardage split. No matter what the oppo defended, IU could exploit what they didn't defend.

Back to basketball, I 100% agree with CNO's mathematical philosophy; but opponents' knowing this has to produce an adjustment - defend the arc and the paint, making it harder to get uncontested layups and open threes. Keep the basic philosophy, which is sound. Layer in a small percentage of uncontested mid-range shots to make opponents guard the entire half-court, by definition opening up more uncontested layups and uncontested threes. This is a tweak, not an overhaul.

Not that I've thought about it much...

 

[oskie]

<snip>

Not that I've thought about it much...

.

 

[BAMARICH]

This is correct. And remember that CNO's offense is actually structured to get points in the following order:

1. Uncontested layups
2. Free Throws
3. Open threes

CNO's players are not prohibited from taking mid-range twos, but they are well-grounded (i.e., well-coached) in the philosophy and expected point values, and it shows in any Alabama shot chart.

At the same time, in no interactive sport can you optimize your outcomes based solely on the expected point value per play in isolation from all the other plays in a game or season. Optimizing also requires understanding and applying game theory - how my distinct actions affect the behavior of my opponent on subsequent encounters. Let's use football as an example.

If as an OC I only ever call (or can expected my guys to execute when called) runs and long pass plays, the defense has an easier job because they don't have to defend the flats or the midrange. This was basically Alabama's offense with Milroe - a threat to run or hit a long pass, but short- to mid-range passes were either not called or poorly executed when called. In no small part it also explains Ryan Williams' production drop off after the 2024 UGa game: the opponents figured it all out, defended accordingly, and we didn't have the ability to adjust, with the well-documented effect on 2024 Alabama's offensive balance and success. Why was IU so effective on offense this year? They had a 60%/40% run play/pass play attack that produced a 47%/53% yardage split. No matter what the oppo defended, IU could exploit what they didn't defend.

Back to basketball, I 100% agree with CNO's mathematical philosophy; but opponents' knowing this has to produce an adjustment - defend the arc and the paint, making it harder to get uncontested layups and open threes. Keep the basic philosophy, which is sound. Layer in a small percentage of uncontested mid-range shots to make opponents guard the entire half-court, by definition opening up more uncontested layups and uncontested threes. This is a tweak, not an overhaul.

Not that I've thought about it much...

Understand what you're saying and wholly agree that this tweak may help. However... the question would be "do we have the guys that can execute those mid-range shots?" If we don't we actually will give away possessions by doing what we do the worst.

 

[CajunCrimson]

Understand what you're saying and wholly agree that this tweak may help. However... the question would be "do we have the guys that can execute those mid-range shots?" If we don't we actually will give us possessions by doing what we do the worst.

He seems to trust Philon and Aden with the 4-6 foot floater. But too many times that can go cold too. Look at how many contested layups we missed vs Mizzou. 15 I think. That’s a hard shot. Even close. Vs an open 3point shot.

 

[BAMARICH]

He seems to trust Philon and Aden with the 4-6 foot floater. But too many times that can go cold too. Look at how many contested layups we missed vs Mizzou. 15 I think. That’s a hard shot. Even close. Vs an open 3point shot.

That was my thought too... a midrange game just isn't developed as much in HS today as it used to be.

 

[day-day]

In a lot (most?) of pick-up games, the shot behind the 3-point line is worth 2 points while the regular field goal is worth one point. This makes the "3-point" shot even more valuable. Everyone wants to shoot the 3-pointer. In games of 21, the free throws are taken from the top of the key.

When little kids get on the court to shoot around, they jack up 3-point shots no matter how well developed their bodies are and how bad it messes up their shooting form.

All of this leads to less practice of the mid-range shot.

I don't know what high school coaches do now. The 3-point shot wasn't available when I was in high school.

 

[BamaMoon]

In a lot (most?) of pick-up games, the shot behind the 3-point line is worth 2 points while the regular field goal is worth one point. This makes the "3-point" shot even more valuable. Everyone wants to shoot the 3-pointer. In games of 21, the free throws are taken from the top of the key.

When little kids get on the court to shoot around, they jack up 3-point shots no matter how well developed their bodies are and how bad it messes up their shooting form.

All of this leads to less practice of the mid-range shot.

I don't know what high school coaches do now. The 3-point shot wasn't available when I was in high school.

It was enacted in Alabama H.S. Ball my senior year in 1988. When I found out about it, I drew a line (at the the time it was the top of the key (around 19.9 IIRC) on my home court and that's all I practiced that summer.

Made the first one in our school's history in our 1st game that year! I averaged 20 a game that year and it was mainly because of the 3-ball!

 

[BamaMoon]

After the UT and UF game...it's time to resurrect this discussion.

We've got a brutal schedule that will reveal a lot about what needs to change before next year.

And BTW, after the UF game, CNO said, and I quote, "We've got to look into the mirror."

So if we do, what manner of man/player/scheme will he see and decide to fix/change???

 

[BamaMoon]

I copied and pasted this from the UA/UF game thread, but it belongs here:

At the half it was 36-46 and CNO never called a TO to end a dominant run in the 1st half. In the second half it was 36-58 (IIRC) just past the first media/under 4 TO. Still CNO never called a TO to set up a play. This was the type of game we never could afford to get behind more than 4-6 points. Anything beyond that and the game was over. It was basically over at the half!

I contend CNO's refusal to not taking time outs is getting out of control! I think the've decided to use TO's to gamble on reviews. Those reviews may work and may result in a 2 or 4 point swing.

But these 10 to 15 point runs basically end games for us against teams like UF!

I just don't get it! I understand CNO's philosophy about playing thru these runs, but this flies in the face of conventional coaching wisdom.