Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E.) (part II)

[CrimsonNagus]

If whenever there is a controversy involving an action by a law-enforcement agent, you always throw the law-enforcement agent under the bus, then what you will get is cops who will pretend not to see or hear crimes being committed you'll have more crime and more victims of crime.

So we just have to suck it up and accept all the wrongful killings at the hands of cops because otherwise, they will be too scared to do their jobs? If you always throw the citizens under the bus to protect the LEOs, you end up with a country full of people who distrust all LEOs.

In an interaction between law-enforcement and a citizen, the police first and foremost are going to protect themselves because they've been to too many police funerals.

There have been far more funerals for people wrongfully killed by cops than cop funerals. Why is this so easily ignored by many people?

This ICE thug was distracted because he was making a video with his phone and broke several policy and procedure rules, which resulted in the death of this woman. He must be held accountable for his negligence like any of us would be if we killed someone while distracted by our phones.

 

[Tidewater]

So we just have to suck it up and accept all the wrongful killings at the hands of cops because otherwise, they will be too scared to do their jobs? If you always throw the citizens under the bus to protect the LEOs, you end up with a country full of people who distrust all LEOs.


There have been far more funerals for people wrongfully killed by cops than cop funerals. Why is this so easily ignored by many people?

This ICE thug was distracted because he was making a video with his phone and broke several policy and procedure rules, which resulted in the death of this woman. He must be held accountable for his negligence like any of us would be if we killed someone while distracted by our phones.

I think there is a system for investigating police misconduct and, if the facts warrant it, charging them and putting them on trial. Cops do get convicted. In the US in 2024, 52 police officers died in the line of duty and four police officers were convicted of some form of wrongful death (although one was a cop who shot another cop during a training exercise)

Nothing I have seen in any of the videos indicates this was a wrongful death. A woman broke the law (failure to yield right of way/blocking the street), failed to follow law enforcement instructions ("get out of your car"), hit a cop with her car, and was shot for her trouble. That's tragic, but if I was a juror at the agent's trial and the only evidence presented was the videos I have seen, I would find him not guilty. But here's the thing, I'm not a juror at his trial and neither are you. The actual jury will see these videos and lots of other things before they render their verdict.

It is not a choice between "throw cops under the bus" or "ignore innocent citizens being killed." It really boils down to this: back police when they do their difficult, dangerous jobs (and charge/try them they break the law) or have a police force afraid to do anything lest they be thrown under the bus and therefore, they let criminals run roughshod over honest citizens because there is effectively no police

 

[jthomas666]

"All the time" in the sense of "frequently," not in the sense of "every time a cop is charged with a crime, he is convicted." Sometimes prosecutors cannot make their case.

You post downthread that four LEOs were convicted of wrongful deaths in 2024. That's your definition of frequently/all the time?

 

[Huckleberry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009615514616693213

Rep. Roger Williams: "People need to quit demonstrating, quit yelling at law enforcement, challenging law enforcement, and begin to get civil."

 

[Huckleberry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009618160652046613

Acting ICE Director Todd Lyons: "Anytime someone uses a 4,000 vehicle to assault or impede or even to escape a law enforcement custody, that's a deadly force situation. That is a domestic terrorist incident."

 

[92tide]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009618160652046613

Acting ICE Director Todd Lyons: "Anytime someone uses a 4,000 vehicle to assault or impede or even to escape a law enforcement custody, that's a deadly force situation. That is a domestic terrorist incident."

good god these people are evil and stupid

 

[Its On A Slab]

I
I am a little curious why someone was filming the encounter. I normally do not walk around Hooterville filming all day every day, so why was this filmer filming this encounter? It seems likely that the encounter was a set up. "Hey, it looks like ICE is in the neighborhood and will be coming my house. I'm going to pull out in front of them at this choke point with cars already parked legally on both sides of the street, to slow them down while they sort this out. If enough people do that around the city, ICE will waste their entire day dealing with 'innocent delays' like this. We'll be social justice heroes. Make sure you film this for posterity or for training purposes later."

I'm not happy this woman is dead. When politicians heighten tensions, people are going to make snap decisions that have serious consequences. Good made a couple. So did the ICE officer.

We do live in a society where everyone grabs their phones and starts videoing. Which I think is done in excess, but I'm an old fart.

That being said, I am glad the person WAS filming this. Otherwise, the narrative pushed by the White House and Kristi Noem would be all that we know about.

It was clearly excessive use of force. https://www.tidefans.com/forums/thr...s-motorist-in-minneapolis.342281/post-4421345

 

[Its On A Slab]

I see ICE, I see progressives, I see tragedy — but I do not see a reason to leave my moral high horse, which conveniently doubles as my libertarian tribe’s clubhouse

 

[Huckleberry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009669016194036148

Stephen Colbert on the ICE murder of Renee Good: “The message from this administration is clear. Only they determine the truth. And when their forces come to your city, obey or die. And if you die, you clearly didn’t obey. This should be an alarm bell for the entire country.”

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I must admit that I'm mystified by the obsession with recording any and everything. Scarcely a week goes by that I don't think "Drop the damned phone and get out of there!" The most recent example was the tragic fire in the apres-ski bar in Montana-Crans in Switzerland. Even with the extremely flammable ceiling insulation literally dripping fire on those below and spreading rapidly. Nevertheless, there were spectators filming it close up. It's clear that there's an inverse relationship between saving your hide and being first on Youtube with video of a tragedy...

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I must admit that I'm mystified by the obsession with recording any and everything. Scarcely a week goes by that I don't think "Drop the damned phone and get out of there!" The most recent example was the tragic fire in the apres-ski bar in Montana-Crans in Switzerland. Even with the extremely flammable ceiling insulation literally dripping fire on those below and spreading rapidly. Nevertheless, there were spectators filming it close up. It's clear that there's an inverse relationship between saving your hide and being first on Youtube with video of a tragedy...

AMEN! And frankly, I blame this for a lot of the behavior we see in public. I've been saying for a long time that we need to stop making stupid people famous, but that's hard to do when so many are attention-seeking using the most outrageous means at their disposal. Take away their audience and suddenly there is no longer an incentive for their idiocy. However, that also means saying no when a friend whips out his phone and says, "look at this clown! He's going to stick a roman candle in his butt!" Refuse and explain why.

 

[Tidewater]

You post downthread that four LEOs were convicted of wrongful deaths in 2024. That's your definition of frequently/all the time?

I do not know (and did not claim) that the list was exhaustive, but how do we know that there were more wrongful deaths that for some reason weren't prosecuted or for some reason were not convicted?
Do you have some cases in which you believe police wrongfully killed someone but got away with it in 2024? What evidence leads you to believe they were guilty? Why did the authorities not charge them or it the did, why did they not get a conviction?

 

[Tidewater]

We do live in a society where everyone grabs their phones and starts videoing. Which I think is done in excess, but I'm an old fart.

That being said, I am glad the person WAS filming this. Otherwise, the narrative pushed by the White House and Kristi Noem would be all that we know about.

It was clearly excessive use of force. https://www.tidefans.com/forums/thr...s-motorist-in-minneapolis.342281/post-4421345

I do not have any issue with the fact that citizens were filming the ICE agents. I'm actually happy they did as you are.
What I was asking about was why were they filming? I videorecord very little of my average day. There has to be some reason why I would film. Was there something about to happen that the filmers felt was going to be worth recording?
This came to my mind after the Rodney King beating. The reason we have video of Rodney King getting the crap beaten out of him was related by the cameraman later. Rodney King tried to run the cops over and the cameraman said to himself, "Holy crap, that dude just tried to run over those cops. I'm going to videorecord whatever happens next because it ought to be good." Then he got his camcorder out. But, and here is my point, the video of Rodney King trying to run over the cops was not recorded because it was the reason the cameraman got his camcorder out.
In this Minneapolis case, something caused the multiple filmers to get their phones out and start recording.

 

[Tidewater]

And I think we have our answer why so many people were filming.

Good parked on the side of the road, let out a passenger, waited four minutes and, when ICE vehicles approached, she pulled out perpendicular to traffice to block the road. She was not backing out of her driveway. Obviously, her intent was to impede federal officers from doing their duty, which is a federal crime, giving federal officers jurisdiction and cause to get her out of her car to investigate and see what was going on.
That does not mean she deserved to die, but it set in motion a train of events leading to her death.
Contributing factors would be the refusal of Minnesota officials to comply with federal immigration law (and hand over to ICE detainees found to be illegal); the atmospherics of the "anyone enforcing federal immigration law are Nazis" rhetoric; the fact that this particular officer had already been severely injured by being dragged by an illegal trying to escape arrest; the weird belief that if you believe your cause is just, you can do whatever you want with police.
If I were Planetary Commander, I'd temporarily halt ICE ops Minneapolis (for like a week) to let things cool off, call the governor and tell him to stop the superheated rhetoric and start assisting ICE with detaining illegals, and if he does not, I'd call out the Minnesota National Guard and federalize them and make them restore order and if I had to do that, any state or local official impeding ICE enforcement would be arrested, including the mayor of Minneapolis and governor of Minnesota and charge them with violations of federal law.