Is it Really the Time to Consider Firing CKD???

[BAMARICH]

If anything, Saban left the program underdeveloped more than he did lacking talent. The same talent rankings that had us in the top five nationwide also had Ohio St and Texas ranked there too, and was correct with their rankings. So were they right with the rankings of them but completely whiffed on us? I dont think so. I think this roster is loaded with talent its just underdeveloped which was a major problem for Sabans post 2020.

Talent is only one part of the equation. Saban succeeded for years because he created a culture of doing things the right way and creating value for both the team and individuals - "the process". In the last few years of his tenure, "the process" began to vanish. Inferior assistant coaches, NIL, the transfer portal, and the leveling field in CFB were the major culprits. As mentioned earlier, we witnessed a coup in his last year by the players - a coup that certainly would have been squashed in his earlier years, but one he was either unable to stop or simply didn't want the hassle.

There's one thing that came out after his departure that most people have totally overlooked IMO. From what I understand, in the post-season meeting with players before retiring, THE top priority in about 70 of them was "how much money am I going to make next year?" Think about how that went down in the actual meeting. CNS... "I'm proud that you worked hard this year and help both our team and yourself achieve some important goals. What do you think about the season and what do you think your plan should be going forward?" Player... "Coach... before we get to that, we need to get an idea on what I can expect in terms of NIL $. I've got some ideas, but all of that only comes if the money's right."

Let that sink in for a moment. In your wildest imaginations, could you EVER picture a player saying something like that to Bear Bryant? Could you imagine Greg McElroy, Mark Ingram, Amari Cooper, etc. having the guts to ask Coach Saban that kind of question earlier in his tenure? The very fact it was the #1 concern showed a complete disrespect for both Coach Saban himself and the culture that he worked so hard to instill. They did that to NICK SABAN. Credit him... he realized at that point that the culture at Alabama had changed and he likely realized restoring it was nearly impossible (maybe he didn't want to expend the energy to do it - understandable if so).

It doesn't matter how talented our roster is if the culture is corrupt. And if the incoming head coach doesn't have free rein to instill "his culture" the problem continues to grow exponentially. People are looking at this roster and are saying "but they have talent"... talent is only a PIECE of the equation.

 

[BAMARICH]

Why would you not blame Saban? It was his system. Shouldn't he be able to adjust to the NIL and portal worlds, if he is the greatest coach of all time?

I'm not saying the college football landscape didn't change tremendously over his last 5 or so years, but it was his program and if it didn't change with the times, then who else's fault is it?

I will admit it that if it were me, I wouldn't have change much, if at all, either, but that would also be my choice and by extension my fault/the blame would fall on me.

In fairness to CNS, he had to change A LOT during his tenure at Alabama to keep up (keep ahead) of CFB. At some point, you get weary of having to continually evolve to succeed. And I'm convinced that this last mountain was going to be his toughest to climb - and if he failed it would affect his legacy. If I had been in his shoes, I would have walked away too.

 

[JDCrimson]

You can go back and review some old threads. Saban's defense was being used against him on the field and on the recruiting trail. Once the transfer portal became an annual event, his 3/4 over scheme was usually only mastered by Juniors and Seniors. Kids didn't want to stay and not play and learn in the system. Likewise rules changes had a substantial impact too.

He wasn't going to change his defensive philosophy although he ended up having to anyway because we began missing on the recruiting trail the elite DL needed to run his defense.

The sand didn't just shift underneath Saban's feet, he was swept out to sea after 2020. He gave up a lot of control over the direction of his program starting in 2014 when he hired Kiffen. The offense didn't necessarily cater to the defense from that point forward.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

In fairness to CNS, he had to change A LOT during his tenure at Alabama to keep up (keep ahead) of CFB. At some point, you get weary of having to continually evolve to succeed. And I'm convinced that this last mountain was going to be his toughest to climb - and if he failed it would affect his legacy. If I had been in his shoes, I would have walked away too.

This ^^^

Most coaches do not make half of the philosophy changes over the course of their career that Saban did. He adapted and evolved more than most. Considering his age and where he was in the stage of his coaching career, I can fully understand when the NIL/Portal started impacting things; he just decided he was done with adapting. Can't say that I blame him.

 

[arthurdawg]

In fairness to CNS, he had to change A LOT during his tenure at Alabama to keep up (keep ahead) of CFB. At some point, you get weary of having to continually evolve to succeed. And I'm convinced that this last mountain was going to be his toughest to climb - and if he failed it would affect his legacy. If I had been in his shoes, I would have walked away too.

This exactly... Even CNS couldn't get the NCAA to avoid the disaster they created.

After the good football CNS brought us... I ain't never gonna do anything but appreciate his work too!

Passing over the great 50 in age myself, the man was a machine to do what he did to 72.

 

[CajunCrimson]

In the history of sports, how many coaches can climb out of a self-made hole like this and overcome it and thrive?

This isn’t a coach who took over a train wreck. This coach took over a well oiled machine that was built for one thing and needed adjustments due to changes in the sport.

But thus far, KDB has decided to take this Ferrari and run it off road — and it’s not working.

He’s trying to change the machine, when what needs to happen is to change the path.

 

[BigAlinKnoxville]

I don’t watch these types of games anyway, but maybe I should since they may be our only shot at winning with this bunch. Already made plans for this week and next so won’t see either game. I’m getting old and life is too short to waste time watching spoiled young men wearing Crimson not giving a damn.

Exactly. Now that we're to the point where a 19-year old can be driving a Ferrari around campus, it won't take much to push me over the edge of being done with it. Put a laughingstock of a team on the field, and I'm out.

 

[Rocky Mtn Bob]

A handful of you have combined to frame what *I* believe I've seen over the years since 1963 (When I really became aware of Alabama football. My dad was all about Notre Dame [Yuck!]). Y'all got me exited!

Remember, Bear Bryant coached his *coaches* (And I mean he really drove them to excellence!) ... and THEY coached the players....

... Saban succeeded for years because he created ... "the process". In the last few years of his tenure, "the process" began to vanish. Inferior assistant coaches, NIL, the transfer portal, and the leveling field in CFB were the major culprits. As mentioned earlier, we witnessed a coup in his last year by the players - a coup that certainly would have been squashed in his earlier years, but one he was either unable to stop or simply didn't want the hassle.

There's one thing that came out after his departure that most people have totally overlooked IMO. From what I understand, in the post-season meeting with players before retiring, THE top priority in about 70 of them was "how much money am I going to make next year?" Think about how that went down in the actual meeting. CNS... "I'm proud that you worked hard this year and help both our team and yourself achieve some important goals. What do you think about the season and what do you think your plan should be going forward?" Player... "Coach... before we get to that, we need to get an idea on what I can expect in terms of NIL $. I've got some ideas, but all of that only comes if the money's right."

Not only the returning players...! CNS mentioned -- more than a few times -- how visits to high school recruits, and their families, had that same tone. Crazy...!

Let that sink in for a moment. In your wildest imaginations, could you EVER picture a player saying something like that to Bear Bryant? Could you imagine Greg McElroy, Mark Ingram, Amari Cooper, etc. having the guts to ask Coach Saban that kind of question earlier in his tenure? The very fact it was the #1 concern showed a complete disrespect for both Coach Saban himself and the culture that he worked so hard to instill. They did that to NICK SABAN. Credit him... he realized at that point that the culture at Alabama had changed and he likely realized restoring it was nearly impossible (maybe he didn't want to expend the energy to do it - understandable if so).

It doesn't matter how talented our roster is if the culture is corrupt. And if the incoming head coach doesn't have free rein to instill "his culture" the problem continues to grow exponentially. People are looking at this roster and are saying "but they have talent"... talent is only a PIECE of the equation.

And I truly believe the culture change was DONE TO Saban (and all the other coaches). Nick Saban was faced with the choice of completely adapting his system -- because The Process was finished-off by NIL and the Portal -- or choosing to retire.

Most coaches do not make half of the philosophy changes over the course of their career that Saban did. He adapted and evolved more than most. Considering his age and where he was in the stage of his coaching career, I can fully understand when the NIL/Portal started impacting things; he just decided he was done with adapting. Can't say that I blame him.

Bingo!

The sand didn't just shift underneath Saban's feet, he was swept out to sea after 2020.

Boom! That was well-phrased. You expressed what I was thinking even better than I was thinking it.

In fairness to CNS, he had to change A LOT during his tenure at Alabama to keep up (keep ahead) of CFB. At some point, you get weary of having to continually evolve to succeed. And I'm convinced that this last mountain was going to be his toughest to climb - and if he failed it would affect his legacy. If I had been in his shoes, I would have walked away too.

Yup!

(Y'all are makin' me think I'm pretty sharp, you're doing such a good job phrasing what I'm thinking!)

 

[LittleLexi]

Actually, who needs to be fired today, is Greg Byrne and anyone else who approved this in DeBoer's contract: ESPN Link

View attachment 52596

Even if he gets a new coaching job the buyout is not reduced. What idiot agrees to this?

I hate to say it, but this is the worst contract ever the more I look into it. My phone has been blowing up for the past 5 days over this situation. I am putting up half to get this guy out of here.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Let that sink in for a moment. In your wildest imaginations, could you EVER picture a player saying something like that to Bear Bryant?

Of course not.

Paying players was illegal back then and carried the risk of NCAA sanctions.

See, that's the thing. No players ever would have said that then - not because of some mythical and undying love and allegiance to the Capstone but simply because they didn't have that option.

They might have said it to SWC teams, though.

Could you imagine Greg McElroy, Mark Ingram, Amari Cooper, etc. having the guts to ask Coach Saban that kind of question earlier in his tenure?

No, but again...it wasn't an option.

The very fact it was the #1 concern showed a complete disrespect for both Coach Saban himself and the culture that he worked so hard to instill. They did that to NICK SABAN. Credit him... he realized at that point that the culture at Alabama had changed and he likely realized restoring it was nearly impossible (maybe he didn't want to expend the energy to do it - understandable if so).

It doesn't matter how talented our roster is if the culture is corrupt. And if the incoming head coach doesn't have free rein to instill "his culture" the problem continues to grow exponentially. People are looking at this roster and are saying "but they have talent"... talent is only a PIECE of the equation.

The problem now is we have the Wild West ongoing. And it should be noted Saban - as always - predicted so much of how it would play out. I'll guarantee you one thing Saban didn't want to see was a roster of players suddenly quit on him and saddle him with a 6-6 season that made his departure look like he was jumping off a sinking ship.

He may not have won the championship his last season, but he didn't leave an Alabama teetering on the brink of several 6-6 seasons, either.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

In the history of sports, how many coaches can climb out of a self-made hole like this and overcome it and thrive?

Never.

I've seen coaches take over train wrecks and thrive - Bill McCartney at Colorado is an outstanding example. Stoops at Oklahoma, Sarkisian at Washington, and Holtz at Notre Dame. Pat Dye pretty much everywhere he went. Bobby Bowden.

But I've yet to see one where a coach came in, poured gasoline on a fire, and somehow managed to save the building from burning to the ground.

Never.

 

[JDCrimson]

The agents knew this was a seismic transition with the portal opening Alabama and Alabama only for 30 days with the most talented roster in the country to be openly poached. What choice(s) do you think that Byrne had? No good ones. He hadto find a good coach fast and hold onto the roster and thus made a deal with Milroe and Lank for 2024.

Please tell me what we should have done with all that hanging over our head?

I hate to say it, but this is the worst contract ever the more I look into it. My phone has been blowing up for the past 5 days over this situation. I am putting up half to get this guy out of here.

 

[BamaMoon]

We are 20 pages into this thread that asks the question "Is it really the time to consider firing CKD???"

If you believe it is, this year is in the tank anyway. Not only will we look foolish like little brother down the road, but who'll want to follow that kind of coup d'état???

So let's hear the plan for firing CKD at "this time?"

 

[AlexanderFan]

Yeah, letting them "do whatever they want and be themselves" is a horrible idea for any sports team. It's a recipe for utter disaster.

Except for the Washington transfers, maybe it’s a maturity thing?

He’s got to find the button to push for these guys to understand that champions do things a certain way, and it’s not the easy way.

 

[AlexanderFan]

Actually, who needs to be fired today, is Greg Byrne and anyone else who approved this in DeBoer's contract: ESPN Link

View attachment 52596

Even if he gets a new coaching job the buyout is not reduced. What idiot agrees to this?

An idiot who is trying to get a good coach to follow a legend.

 

[AlexanderFan]

Talent is only one part of the equation. Saban succeeded for years because he created a culture of doing things the right way and creating value for both the team and individuals - "the process". In the last few years of his tenure, "the process" began to vanish. Inferior assistant coaches, NIL, the transfer portal, and the leveling field in CFB were the major culprits. As mentioned earlier, we witnessed a coup in his last year by the players - a coup that certainly would have been squashed in his earlier years, but one he was either unable to stop or simply didn't want the hassle.

There's one thing that came out after his departure that most people have totally overlooked IMO. From what I understand, in the post-season meeting with players before retiring, THE top priority in about 70 of them was "how much money am I going to make next year?" Think about how that went down in the actual meeting. CNS... "I'm proud that you worked hard this year and help both our team and yourself achieve some important goals. What do you think about the season and what do you think your plan should be going forward?" Player... "Coach... before we get to that, we need to get an idea on what I can expect in terms of NIL $. I've got some ideas, but all of that only comes if the money's right."

Let that sink in for a moment. In your wildest imaginations, could you EVER picture a player saying something like that to Bear Bryant? Could you imagine Greg McElroy, Mark Ingram, Amari Cooper, etc. having the guts to ask Coach Saban that kind of question earlier in his tenure? The very fact it was the #1 concern showed a complete disrespect for both Coach Saban himself and the culture that he worked so hard to instill. They did that to NICK SABAN. Credit him... he realized at that point that the culture at Alabama had changed and he likely realized restoring it was nearly impossible (maybe he didn't want to expend the energy to do it - understandable if so).

It doesn't matter how talented our roster is if the culture is corrupt. And if the incoming head coach doesn't have free rein to instill "his culture" the problem continues to grow exponentially. People are looking at this roster and are saying "but they have talent"... talent is only a PIECE of the equation.

The Process worked because it was the blueprint to get to the NFL. The Process separated potential NFL players from washouts. Alabama players who got to the league told everyone how Alabama practices were tougher. The front offices lavished praise on the preparedness and professionalism of the Alabama players. Saban could offer this blueprint to these players to entice them to come to Alabama. Now these guys can make life altering money without even taking a snap in college.

You have got to find guys with internal motivation who will take the mantle of leadership and drag the other guys to the healthy habits of championship football.

 

[jthomas666]

Talent was never an issue, it is now clearly obvious its the lack of development and proper coaching. aside from Lindquist and Gillespie, the coaching staff resembles a mid tier Pac 12 team.
I am very concern that if the season spirals out of control the transfer portal will be unforgiving.
furthermore, the Top 5 2026 class is absolutely loaded and that could take a hit with the NIL vultures circling for the right opportunity. in fact, our rivals are licking their chops and salivating like never before!!

1. The only way CKD gets fired is if the season is already out of control.
2. We really couldn't afford the buyout after just two years.
3. At that point, the only think that MIGHT allow us to hang on the recruits would be to bring back Saban. And that ain't happening.

Many of us have forgotten just what an incredible run we had. All things must end.

 

[OconeeTide]

But thus far, KDB has decided to take this Ferrari and run it off road — and it’s not working.

He backed over the mailbox in the driveway.

 

[dWarriors88]

Let that sink in for a moment. In your wildest imaginations, could you EVER picture a player saying something like that to Bear Bryant? Could you imagine Greg McElroy, Mark Ingram, Amari Cooper, etc. having the guts to ask Coach Saban that kind of question earlier in his tenure? The very fact it was the #1 concern showed a complete disrespect for both Coach Saban himself and the culture that he worked so hard to instill. They did that to NICK SABAN. Credit him... he realized at that point that the culture at Alabama had changed and he likely realized restoring it was nearly impossible (maybe he didn't want to expend the energy to do it - understandable if so).

with today's environment and culture, I absolutely could imagine those guys not just asking but demanding similar promises. Pandora's box was opened with those landmark court cases, CFB is a cooked goose these days.

 

[BigAlinKnoxville]

Careful… according to most here, Saban left the program in “great shape”. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but we’re likely not in the current situation without the debacle of his final year as well as his sudden departure. It’s not all at the feet of CKD.

Saban made some poor coordinator choices, among the few bad decisions he ever made.