Is “Roll Tide” racist?

[Crimson1967]

Has anyone ever heard this story before? According to this article, it has some connections to the Civil War.

It says the cheer is based on a 19th century song called “Roll Alabama” that memorializes the CSA ship Alabama. It suggests that the bit in the fight song about sending the Bulldogs to a watery grave comes from this.

A guy from the Sons of Confederate Veterans says it is true, while a history professor says he is unaware of a connection.

Another potential issue is a quote from George Denny about the team after our first Rose Bowl.

The story also discusses the Gator Bait cheer and LSU’s nickname.

I posted this here rather than the football board to save a mod from moving it after five replies.

Here is the article.

From 'Roll Tide' to 'Gator Bait', college football reckons with its problematic traditions

Some of college football’s most storied programs have discovered that even seemingly innocuous fight songs and fan-friendly chants aren’t safe from their problematic historiesIn Alabama, “Roll Tide!” is a phrase for all seasons.Love for the University of Alabama’s football powerhouse runs so...

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Padreruf]

Actually this is a well researched article...thanks for listing. I believe he is right on target with his understanding of the role of football in the Southern psyche. Unfortunately, when your roots are in a racist culture (and the entire USA was at one time) the challenge of distinguishing which rituals are symbolic of that culture is really, really difficult From church to university to school systems to country clubs -- all are deeply rooted in racist practices and thought. Who is to determine what level of racist embedding is allowed? Certainly, UK singing "My Old Kentucky Home" as originally written had to go. So with the flying of the Confederate Flag, the singing of Dixie, and the Rebels as the mascot of OM.

Does "Roll Tide Roll" confer racist images to anyone? I doubt it. Some serious study needs to look at the actual history of this cheer...not just what someone supposes. I really don't think telling Ga Tech or the Bulldogs to go to a "watery grave" is racist, given that they both are in a neighboring SOUTHERN state. Someone is rewriting history to their own desires...per this Southern history major.

 

[B1GTide]

Words change meaning constantly. There is no way that "Roll Tide" is racist, no matter its origins.

 

[Tideflyer]

Oh for God`s sake!!

 

[PacadermaTideUs]

For any obscure thing you can imagine, there’s some weirdo out there whose libido is stimulated by it.

Similarly, for any obscure thing you can imagine, there’s some easily bruised person out there who’s offended by it.

The difficulty is in figuring out where in the gray area to draw the line between being and not being too offensive.

If we collectively determine that “Roll Tide” crosses that line, well, our society is doomed.

 

[NationalTitles18]

"Roll Tide Roll" is about as racist as "Will you please pick out a black cotton shirt for me to wear?". There may be some history associated with certain words - even in a certain order - but finding racism in them is a stretch, at best. There is no escaping the history of the Old South - it's everywhere in Southern culture. That does not mean every part of Southern culture is an ongoing racist platform that must be reckoned with and purged.

 

[JDCrimson]

Seriously? He missed a lot research on how the name was adopted...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

If someone has to do the level of research that would be equivalent to earning a history degree (regardless if the term was "racist" during that time or not), its meaning obviously did not survive time. As B1GTide stated, words change as cultures change. There are plenty of obvious and blatant racist "things" to deal with in our day and time that doesn't need this level of research to determine if it's racist or not. Let's deal with those first...

 

[The Ols]

Has anyone ever heard this story before? According to this article, it has some connections to the Civil War.

It says the cheer is based on a 19th century song called “Roll Alabama” that memorializes the CSA ship Alabama. It suggests that the bit in the fight song about sending the Bulldogs to a watery grave comes from this.

A guy from the Sons of Confederate Veterans says it is true, while a history professor says he is unaware of a connection.

Another potential issue is a quote from George Denny about the team after our first Rose Bowl.

The story also discusses the Gator Bait cheer and LSU’s nickname.

I posted this here rather than the football board to save a mod from moving it after five replies.

Here is the article.

From 'Roll Tide' to 'Gator Bait', college football reckons with its problematic traditions

Some of college football’s most storied programs have discovered that even seemingly innocuous fight songs and fan-friendly chants aren’t safe from their problematic historiesIn Alabama, “Roll Tide!” is a phrase for all seasons.Love for the University of Alabama’s football powerhouse runs so...

sports.yahoo.com

You serious, Clark? My God man find a hobby...(Author, not you '67)

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Well, there's no doubt about where "Crimson Tide" came from. It was invented by Hugh Roberts, late sports editor of the Birmingham Post Herald, after the 1907 Bama-Auburn game. It was played in red mud and, though AU was heavily favored, Bama fought to a 6-6 tie. Bama's white jerseys were stained crimson by the mud, hence Robert's phrase. Now, given the name was invented in 1907, what goes with "Tide?" "Crash?" "Neap?" Nope, it has to have action. I think "roll" is the logical extension, once you've named the team the Tide. Literary references to the tide rolling in are sprinkled throughout English history. The tide is inexorable. I think that's far more likely than reaching back into the previous century to a Civil War ship's shanty...

 

[Padreruf]

Well, there's no doubt about where "Crimson Tide" came from. It was invented by Hugh Roberts, late sports editor of the Birmingham Post Herald, after the 1907 Bama-Auburn game. It was played in red mud and, though AU was heavily favored, Bama fought to a 6-6 tie. Bama's white jerseys were stained crimson by the mud, hence Robert's phrase. Now, given the name was invented in 1907, what goes with "Tide?" "Crash?" "Neap?" Nope, it has to have action. I think "roll" is the logical extension, once you've named the team the Tide. Literary references to the tide rolling in are sprinkled throughout English history. The tide is inexorable. I think that's far more likely than reaching back into the previous century to a Civil War ship's shanty...

That's the "historical research" that I was talking about...history can exculpate as well as condemn...I should have known Earl would know...he probably was there in 1907...

 

[MobtownK]

Well, there's no doubt about where "Crimson Tide" came from. It was invented by Hugh Roberts, late sports editor of the Birmingham Post Herald, after the 1907 Bama-Auburn game. It was played in red mud and, though AU was heavily favored, Bama fought to a 6-6 tie. Bama's white jerseys were stained crimson by the mud, hence Robert's phrase. Now, given the name was invented in 1907, what goes with "Tide?" "Crash?" "Neap?" Nope, it has to have action. I think "roll" is the logical extension, once you've named the team the Tide. Literary references to the tide rolling in are sprinkled throughout English history. The tide is inexorable. I think that's far more likely than reaching back into the previous century to a Civil War ship's shanty...

I want to say I read in a book decades ago (have no idea which one) that it originated with the Thin Red Line - and at one point an announcer was astounded at the strength of the O line & said line - looks more like a tide rolling over the opponent. Hence - Roll Tide

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I want to say I read in a book decades ago (have no idea which one) that it originated with the Thin Red Line - and at one point an announcer was astounded at the strength of the O line & said line - looks more like a tide rolling over the opponent. Hence - Roll Tide

That's logical-sounding, but untrue. Roberts was the first to use the name in print. It's historical rather than just being a leap of imagination. I'm sure that you can Google it...

 

[MobtownK]

That's logical-sounding, but untrue. Roberts was the first to use the name in print. It's historical rather than just being a leap of imagination. I'm sure that you can Google it...

My memory's going bad in my middle age

 

[TIDE-HSV]

My memory's going bad in my middle age

I've seen all kinds of stories about how it was supposedly arrived at. The name is unique and it practically begs history-invention. Roberts, however, not only used it first in print; he actually explained how he came up with it...

 

[Padreruf]

I've seen all kinds of stories about how it was supposedly arrived at. The name is unique and it practically begs history-invention. Roberts, however, not only used it first in print; he actually explained how he came up with it...

Once you wrote that I remembered the reference from the past...thanks for jogging me out of my self-imposed dementia.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Once you wrote that I remembered the reference from the past...thanks for jogging me out of my self-imposed dementia.

Back then, the B'ham games were played at the old fair grounds - no grass at all, just the basic valley red clay. I can imagine what white jerseys would look like after a game played in the rain. I wonder if they were ever white again...

 

[CrimsonTheory]

We got some real honest-to-god battles to fight, people. Don't have time for the cosmetic ones. We can't change what happened in the past but what we can change is what we do today and tomorrow.

This is a writer who is looking for a fight, trying to stir something. It's not a bad thing, per se, but only if the fight is worth having. Trying to change "Roll Tide" or "Gator Bait", etc is not a fight worth having, not when we got bigger issues to deal with currently.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

We got some real honest-to-god battles to fight, people. Don't have time for the cosmetic ones. We can't change what has happen but what we can change is what we do today and tomorrow.

This is a writer who is looking for a fight, trying to stir something. It's not a bad thing, per se, but only if the fight is worth having. Trying to change "Roll Tide" or "Gator Bait", etc is not a fight worth having, not when we got bigger issues to deal with currently.

What he was told wasn't even

We got some real honest-to-god battles to fight, people. Don't have time for the cosmetic ones. We can't change what has happen but what we can change is what we do today and tomorrow.

This is a writer who is looking for a fight, trying to stir something. It's not a bad thing, per se, but only if the fight is worth having. Trying to change "Roll Tide" or "Gator Bait", etc is not a fight worth having, not when we got bigger issues to deal with currently.

What he was told isn't even correct, anyway...

 

[Crimson1967]

The writer doesn’t actually say what he wrote is true or cite any sources beyond a guy from the Sons of Confederate Veterans. But he should have at least included the version Earle mentioned. I wasn’t aware of the origin of the name but that 1907 article popped up when I googled it.

I think he was trying to get clicks for his article. No better way than using the #1 team and its cheer as the lede.

But I agree there are far worse things to worry about in society than a cheer at a football game.