Is the Ohio st model sustainable?

[davefrat]

They won two titles in the first half of Carroll’s tenure, then the wheels came off.

The players won on the field, but two titles in 8 years and then near irrelevance for two decades isn’t anywhere in the league of a Bryant or Saban run that spanned a couple decades and had half a dozen titles.

And it’s entirely conceivable that the Buckeyes could win a couple in the next few years.

 

[davefrat]

The average NFL QB makes a lot more than the average center. Do they give bad snaps on purpose as well?

I make less than some people in my department who do the same job, but I’m not sabotaging them.

They make more because they know more.

 

[BamaMoon]

Wow, this thread got interesting.

 

[bamacpa]

I thought from the beginning that big money NIL deals had to be short lived. Business people want a return on their money and the well is only so full. Multi million offers to high schoolers isn't broadly sustainable in my view... but Ohio State operates on a much bigger scale than almost all schools because of the size of its alum base. Buckeyes and Horns are in the most advantageous position in this new world.

 

[davefrat]

I thought from the beginning that big money NIL deals had to be short lived. Business people want a return on their money and the well is only so full. Multi million offers to high schoolers isn't broadly sustainable in my view... but Ohio State operates on a much bigger scale than almost all schools because of the size of its alum base. Buckeyes and Horns are in the most advantageous position in this new world.

This all could probably have been avoided if the NCAA had been more forward-thinking when revenues reached absurd levels.

Instead of hoarding all the money and clinging to the outdated idea that a scholarship was sufficient compensation for players who were earning schools and the NCAA millions upon millions, they could have created some form of revenue-sharing or other compensation.

Instead, they dug in their heels and the courts unleashed an uncontrollable torrent.

I place the blame for the current insanity squarely at the feet of the NCAA.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The thought of "regulated" NIL is mythical because anything regulating it will violate the players' rights to make money, which the courts have already shown they are on the players' side. So this thought of "regulated NIL" is on the same aisle as Bigfoot and the unicorn. The law and the lawyers have now gotten involved and pandora's box is wide open and not getting shut in any capacity.

 

[davefrat]

The thought of "regulated" NIL is mythical because anything regulating it will violate the players' rights to make money, which the courts have already shown they are on the players' side. So this thought of "regulated NIL" is on the same aisle as Bigfoot and the unicorn. The law and the lawyers have now gotten involved and pandora's box is wide open and not getting shut in any capacity.

Likely the only way to control it to any extent is to make the players employees and then schools can restrict their outside employment opportunities like any other job can.

I'm not allowed to do work for anyone else while I work for my current company per the terms of my contract.

That said, I don't think my company could prohibit me from taking endorsement money if someone was willing to pay me for my NIL as long as it didn't directly relate to my company work.

I don't think the players could be prevented from making endorsement money outside their employment with the schools.

The entire thing is a disastrous mess.

 

[bamaslammer]

The better question isn't can they maintain it. I've learned in the last few years that there are wealthy people who have unlimited money, by unlimited, I mean they can throw away a hundred millions every year and they will still be richer year after year. So, no they won't run out of money.

The question is will the players perform? We saw Texas A&M early on drop a truckload of cash and sign a really nice class. Best one they ever signed by far. I know Saban was ****ed because they took some of those players from us. That class is now scattered to the wind because they didn't do squat on the field. Now we all know their coach was a scam artist so nobody was surprised, but not every college coach, even good ones are going to be able to convince a bunch of teenagers with 6 figures in their checking accounts to work hard and get better in the hot blazing summer heat. To me that is the bigger question. Who will be able to do that?

As a side note when Texas A&M did that, That was when I believe Saban began planning his exit. You could see the disgust in his face and it didn't improve when he discussed recruiting.

 

[rolltide7854]

Can’t agree more. The number of boosters at a given school who can repeatedly just GIVE AWAY LARGE SUMS OF MONEY year after year, are few. Funding these very expensive teams year over year over year is untenable. Add in the attitudes of the player for hire and you will eventually run in to aTm’s situation at some point. It’s going to take a super strong coach to be able to manage a pay for play team and mold them into an actual team with one heartbeat.

If Coach Saban couldn't do it, who can? Nothing against Ryan Day but I don't see it being him. IMO the way Holtz got under his skin to me he is too emotional is not a good sign he can handle 40-60 entitled egos in one locker room who feel they deserve more money.

 

[Joefus]

The thought of "regulated" NIL is mythical because anything regulating it will violate the players' rights to make money, which the courts have already shown they are on the players' side. So this thought of "regulated NIL" is on the same aisle as Bigfoot and the unicorn. The law and the lawyers have now gotten involved and pandora's box is wide open and not getting shut in any capacity.

If they sign a cba you regulate anything and everything.

 

[davefrat]

If they sign a cba you regulate anything and everything.

Does the CBA of any pro league control the extent to which players can earn from outside endorsements?

I wouldn't think so.

I don't think a CBA for college players could either...unless they agreed to it...which wouldn't make a lot of sense.

 

[B1GTide]

Does the CBA of any pro league control the extent to which players can earn from outside endorsements?

I wouldn't think so.

I don't think a CBA for college players could either...unless they agreed to it...which wouldn't make a lot of sense.

It would end the need to do it this way. These huge NIL deals are a result of the lack of control by either the players or the school. A union and CBA restores that control and puts the money back in the hands of those entities to manage.

 

[Joefus]

It would end the need to do it this way. These huge NIL deals are a result of the lack of control by either the players or the school. A union and CBA restores that control and puts the money back in the hands of those entities to manage.

Thank you. Not singling anyone out but there’s a lot of handwringing over something that will eventually get settled into a nice tidy (pandoras if you like) box. With a cba you set a cap limit and if schools/boosters tried to back door it with an endorsement deal or whatever then within the cba you could have a set of rules that would hammer said institution with absolute authority. The falcons can appeal their penalty but it will do no good because they did do it. If the players and institutions sign on to it then they are bound to it legally. Which is an authority the ncaa never had and why it didn’t really work.

im sure some people are thinking then why sign it if you’re doing well in the lawlessness that is the current state? Why? Bc of the question this thread asks- is that really sustainable? No it’s not. There is no bottomless pit of money for anything in this world.

 

[crimsonaudio]

The thought of "regulated" NIL is mythical because anything regulating it will violate the players' rights to make money, which the courts have already shown they are on the players' side. So this thought of "regulated NIL" is on the same aisle as Bigfoot and the unicorn. The law and the lawyers have now gotten involved and pandora's box is wide open and not getting shut in any capacity.

If the NCAA had actually had an inkling of forward thought the lawsuits that ended with the court rulings might have been avoided.

But that's obviously asking a lot from the group of clowns in Indianapolis.

All of this could almost certainly have been avoided.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

If the NCAA had actually had an inkling of forward thought the lawsuits that ended with the court rulings might have been avoided.

But that's obviously asking a lot from the group of clowns in Indianapolis.

All of this could almost certainly have been avoided.

Yep, you're correct. But they've now lost all control of this thing and the tail is wagging the dog and it's not going back. I know people seem that it is unfathomable but the sport will die on this current path. No one is going to pay the type of money that will eventually have to be paid for what amounts to UFL-level football.

 

[davefrat]

My point is that

It would end the need to do it this way. These huge NIL deals are a result of the lack of control by either the players or the school. A union and CBA restores that control and puts the money back in the hands of those entities to manage.

My point is that a CBA wouldn't likely control the ability of players to make more money through endorsements.

Like the CBA that pro leagues have don't control how much money Lebron James or Patrick Mahomes can make hocking shoes and chips and all that junk.

But a CBA for college players would at least create some guardrails.

 

[mdb-tpet]

The history of sports is littered with the best funded, but under-performing teams. If you have a team of prima donnas mostly focused on the size of their NIL checks, you're going to have another TA&M scenario.

It takes excellent coaching, game day adjustments, planning, fan support, talent acquisition, player development, scheduling, injury luck, superior team work, a few good ball bounces, and failures from other teams/coaches etc. to win a national championship. NIL just helps get the kids on campus, but does little or even harms the rest of the list. NIL will likely erode team cohesion, and NIL could even be more harmful to creating a developed team in the long run. But, I don't coach football teams, so what do I really know?

 

[davefrat]

The history of sports is littered with the best funded, but under-performing teams. If you have a team of prima donnas mostly focused on the size of their NIL checks, you're going to have another TA&M scenario.

It takes excellent coaching, game day adjustments, planning, fan support, talent acquisition, player development, scheduling, injury luck, superior team work, a few good ball bounces, and failures from other teams/coaches etc. to win a national championship. NIL just helps get the kids on campus, but does little or even harms the rest of the list. NIL will likely erode team cohesion, and NIL could even be more harmful to creating a developed team in the long run. But, I don't coach football teams, so what do I really know?

It works in the pros, it can work at the college level.

I don't see team cohesion being an issue in major league sports where the stars make many multiples of what their teammates make.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

It works in the pros, it can work at the college level.

I don't see team cohesion being an issue in major league sports where the stars make many multiples of what their teammates make.

Human dynamics do not change on the pro level. They still have to have some form of cohesion among each other in the locker room and just overall as a team in general or more times than not it isn't successful. It doesn't mean everyone is going over to each other's homes after every practice roasting marshmallows around the campfire and singing hymns. But they do have to function well socially as a group to be successful. I've rarely heard of a locker room being in disorder and that team winning a championship.

 

[mdb-tpet]

It works in the pros, it can work at the college level.

I don't see team cohesion being an issue in major league sports where the stars make many multiples of what their teammates make.

The core of what I'm saying is NIL is just one tool (can be helpful for sure), but it does not insure a team's chances for being successful.

And, for the NFL, there are tons of rules in place to create equity in the teams like salary caps, spending rules, minimum team spending, etc. which are simply not in place for college. I'm definitely not excited to see college football continually to be more about money than the love of teams and sport.