JFK assassination files released

selmaborntidefan

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So basically, some young up-and-coming in Congress wants to kiss the president’s rump so she comes out and claims that NBC is sitting on a copy and is “director stone” supposed to be referring to movie Director Oliver Stone?

In essence, she’s pulling McCarthyism right here. She’s saying something exists and if NBC can’t produce that they are now part of the conspiracy.

I’m starting to think stuff like this it needs to be legal to lock these kinds of people up so that they cannot procreate.

I find it pretty much impossible to believe that if Oliver Stone was sitting on this, it didn’t make it into his pile of hog wash. But I’m still trying to figure out how Oswald could’ve been down by the car when according to another conspiracy theory, he was standing in the doorway of the schoolbook suppository?
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Following Tidefans like all good lawyers, Gerald Posner tweeted this 5 min ago:


Wow. Just when I think it can't get any worse, it does.
Rep Luna says she learned this evening from Oliver Stone that NBC has a secret video that "shows Oswald near the vehicle [JFK's limo] when the assassination took place, which means that he couldn't have been the shooter." It turns out "director Stone" is one of her key witnesses at her April 1 Oversight investigation. Tonight, she fully went down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Luna claimed that NBC has for 62 years been "very, very much so guarding this tape." Stone told her that "this could blow open the entire JFK investigation." Not only is Luna asking NBC to produce the phantom exculpatory video but she said, "I would encourage everyone to ask NBC to release that tape to the public." I had hoped early on that Rep. Luna might be an honest broker looking for transparency on long sealed JFK files. She is instead determined to turn her hearing into a moment of political farce and theater. Oliver Stone has finally found a government official willing to pass along his baseless information as breaking news. It's a sad day not simply for those of us who have tried to bring some sense of sanity and historical accuracy to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, but it is a bad day for truth in government. Rep. Luna's Oversight Committee investigation into the JFK assassination might promote itself as a search for what really happened in the murder of an American president, but it is instead a desperate effort to give an official stamp of approval to speculation and falsehoods, most of which have long ago been debunked.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Posner sleeps on it and reveals the kryptonite:


Time for a dose of reality. This
👇
is the supposedly smoking gun video that
Rep Luna said last night had "never been seen before" and "could blow open the entire JFK investigation." Luna said she learned about it from Oliver Stone and said the video "shows Oswald near the vehicle [JFK's limo] when the assassination took place, which means he couldn't have been the shooter." And she told a credulous Jesse Watters, NBC had been "very, very much guarding this tape." A small problem. It is NOT a secret video that has never been seen. It is available for anyone to watch at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas (or on their YouTube channel). What Rep. Luna is referring to is a clip of a film taken by Jimmy Darnell, an NBC affiliate cameraman who had been riding in the "press camera cars" behind the motorcade. He, and three other cameramen had jumped out of their car after the shots and started filming about 30 seconds AFTER the assassination. Darnell's film shows Dallas police officer Marrion Baker running to the front door of the Texas School Book Depository, and past the TSBD's supervisor, Roy Truly, both of whom would encounter Oswald in less than another 30 seconds, on the second floor. Oswald was on his way out of the building, having come down from the sixth floor after the shooting. Truly vouched for Oswald and Baker let him go. Some conspiracy theorists think that a few seconds in the Darnell film shows a figure on the far-left side of the front of the Texas School Book Depository they believe is Oswald. The figure has been dubbed prayer man, some say because of the way he has his arms crossed in front of him, while others think the conjecture is the equivalent of a conspiracy Hail Mary prayer long shot. For those not into the weeds on the JFK assassination, this is not the first time that a film or photo has been used to try and exonerate Oswald. For many years, conspiracy theorists contended that Oswald was visible in one of the pictures taken by James Altgens, an AP photographer at the scene. Oswald, they contended, was the fuzzy figure in a white t-shirt standing to the left entrance of the TSBD. That was in fact one of Oswald's coworkers, Billy Lovelady. Even AFTER Lovelady identified himself as the person in the photo, some conspiracy theorists refused to believe him. Oliver Stone and others have now turned to the Darnell film and the person standing to the left of Lovelady. Maybe that is Oswald. It is not even clear from the fuzzy image if it is absolutely a white man. It could even be a light-colored black or Latin person. But to Stone and Luna and others, it is Oswald. Thirteen of Oswald’s work colleagues were standing at the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository. They were there to watch the motorcade. Not one of them remembers seeing Oswald there. That has not stopped the conspiracy theorists, who claim the clothing on the unidentified man looks like what Oswald wore when he was arrested after killing Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit. Ten other Texas School Book Depository employees wore shirts like the one on “prayer man.” The entire exercise might as well be a Rorschach inkblot test. That is what happened before in the case, for instance, with a half-inch square portion of Mary Moorman’s badly faded Polaroid taken a split second after the assassination. Conspiracy theorists enhanced it and blew it up and thought they had found the image of the phantom second shooter on the Grassy Knoll, someone they dubbed “badgeman.” They claimed that greatly enlarged pixels identified a rifle and a Dallas police uniform. The enhanced photo only shows shadows and trees, no person, no shooter. Now, Oliver Stone and others believe the only thing preventing an ironclad identification of Oswald in the Darnell film is that they do not have the original first-generation. The Sixth Floor Museum version is a second-generation print of the film that the Museum acquired as part of a personal collection in 2006. No one is certain if a first-generation version exists, but the guess by Luna and Stone is that it must be somewhere in the long-lost archives at NBC. Not quite the same as NBC having, as Rep. Luna claimed, “very, very much guarding it.” I hope that the Oversight Committee gets the original Darnell video. Many of us would like to see the clearest possible version of the frenetic scenes that played out in the minutes after the assassination. For those, however, who think it will be dispositive and exculpatory evidence that Oswald was hanging out at the front of the School Book Depository, good luck. That story might earn a headline in the National Enquirer or the Daily Mail. It should not be the ‘breaking news’ from the congresswoman leading the new investigation into the assassination of President Kennedy.
 
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Jon

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Posner sleeps on it and reveals the kryptonite:


Time for a dose of reality. This
👇
is the supposedly smoking gun video that
Rep Luna said last night had "never been seen before" and "could blow open the entire JFK investigation." Luna said she learned about it from Oliver Stone and said the video "shows Oswald near the vehicle [JFK's limo] when the assassination took place, which means he couldn't have been the shooter." And she told a credulous Jesse Watters, NBC had been "very, very much guarding this tape." A small problem. It is NOT a secret video that has never been seen. It is available for anyone to watch at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas (or on their YouTube channel). What Rep. Luna is referring to is a clip of a film taken by Jimmy Darnell, an NBC affiliate cameraman who had been riding in the "press camera cars" behind the motorcade. He, and three other cameramen had jumped out of their car after the shots and started filming about 30 seconds AFTER the assassination. Darnell's film shows Dallas police officer Marrion Baker running to the front door of the Texas School Book Depository, and past the TSBD's supervisor, Roy Truly, both of whom would encounter Oswald in less than another 30 seconds, on the second floor. Oswald was on his way out of the building, having come down from the sixth floor after the shooting. Truly vouched for Oswald and Baker let him go. Some conspiracy theorists think that a few seconds in the Darnell film shows a figure on the far-left side of the front of the Texas School Book Depository they believe is Oswald. The figure has been dubbed prayer man, some say because of the way he has his arms crossed in front of him, while others think the conjecture is the equivalent of a conspiracy Hail Mary prayer long shot. For those not into the weeds on the JFK assassination, this is not the first time that a film or photo has been used to try and exonerate Oswald. For many years, conspiracy theorists contended that Oswald was visible in one of the pictures taken by James Altgens, an AP photographer at the scene. Oswald, they contended, was the fuzzy figure in a white t-shirt standing to the left entrance of the TSBD. That was in fact one of Oswald's coworkers, Billy Lovelady. Even AFTER Lovelady identified himself as the person in the photo, some conspiracy theorists refused to believe him. Oliver Stone and others have now turned to the Darnell film and the person standing to the left of Lovelady. Maybe that is Oswald. It is not even clear from the fuzzy image if it is absolutely a white man. It could even be a light-colored black or Latin person. But to Stone and Luna and others, it is Oswald. Thirteen of Oswald’s work colleagues were standing at the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository. They were there to watch the motorcade. Not one of them remembers seeing Oswald there. That has not stopped the conspiracy theorists, who claim the clothing on the unidentified man looks like what Oswald wore when he was arrested after killing Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit. Ten other Texas School Book Depository employees wore shirts like the one on “prayer man.” The entire exercise might as well be a Rorschach inkblot test. That is what happened before in the case, for instance, with a half-inch square portion of Mary Moorman’s badly faded Polaroid taken a split second after the assassination. Conspiracy theorists enhanced it and blew it up and thought they had found the image of the phantom second shooter on the Grassy Knoll, someone they dubbed “badgeman.” They claimed that greatly enlarged pixels identified a rifle and a Dallas police uniform. The enhanced photo only shows shadows and trees, no person, no shooter. Now, Oliver Stone and others believe the only thing preventing an ironclad identification of Oswald in the Darnell film is that they do not have the original first-generation. The Sixth Floor Museum version is a second-generation print of the film that the Museum acquired as part of a personal collection in 2006. No one is certain if a first-generation version exists, but the guess by Luna and Stone is that it must be somewhere in the long-lost archives at NBC. Not quite the same as NBC having, as Rep. Luna claimed, “very, very much guarding it.” I hope that the Oversight Committee gets the original Darnell video. Many of us would like to see the clearest possible version of the frenetic scenes that played out in the minutes after the assassination. For those, however, who think it will be dispositive and exculpatory evidence that Oswald was hanging out at the front of the School Book Depository, good luck. That story might earn a headline in the National Enquirer or the Daily Mail. It should not be the ‘breaking news’ from the congresswoman leading the new investigation into the assassination of President Kennedy.
nothing ever stops conspiracy theorists. Ever
 

selmaborntidefan

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We've got this yutz on another site who intruded into my life back in the fall of 2007, and I made the mistake of thinking the fake guy was sincere. He is wedded to the asinine idea that some teenage boy on Mt Athos in the 19th century fooled every scholar in the world with his forgery of what is now considered the oldest "complete" copy of the NT, Sinaiticus, that instead of the 4th century date assigned by everyone INCLUDING the historical-critical scholars and skeptics, it's a forgery.

I then watched as his attempts to 'prove' this turned into constant shifting of the burden of proof, replete "they" didn't look "here" because they "feared what they'd find."

The fact the guy he's touting as the forger was demonstrated to be a liar about almost everything he said back in the 1860s, none of that matters to this guy.

You will not be surprised to learn the motivational fallacy behind this guy is that he's one of those "King James Only" nuts.

You may not be surprised to learn he also thinks ALL SIX moon landings were faked, vaccines kill people, Ukraine invaded Russia, 9/11 was an inside job, and oh yeah, atomic bombs never existed.


So you can no doubt guess what his opinion on the JFK assassination is.......
 

oskie

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We've got this yutz on another site ...

You may not be surprised to learn he also thinks ALL SIX moon landings were faked, vaccines kill people, Ukraine invaded Russia, 9/11 was an inside job, and oh yeah, atomic bombs never existed.


So you can no doubt guess what his opinion on the JFK assassination is.......

So you can no doubt guess what his opinion on the JFK assassination is.......

I'm guessing he thinks JFK was killed by a vaccine? . :sneaky: aky:
 
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selmaborntidefan

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So after 10 weeks of “look at all this money we are (not really) saving,” the first meeting of the JFK Files held by Rep Looney is tomorrow.

First witnesses?

Oliver Stone
Jefferson Morley
James DiEugenio

All conspiracy theorists, and none actually witnesses to anything.

IMG_0513.jpeg
 
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DzynKingRTR

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So after 10 weeks of “look at all this money we are (not really) saving,” the first meeting of the JFK Files held by Rep Looney is tomorrow.

First witnesses?

Oliver Stone
Jefferson Morley
James DiEugenio

All conspiracy theorists, and none actually witnesses to anything.

View attachment 50172
I remember an old SNL skit after Bush puked on the Japanese Prime Minister where "Oliver Stone" thought it was a vast conspiracy. Kept showing the puking over and over and in slowmo.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I remember an old SNL skit after Bush puked on the Japanese Prime Minister where "Oliver Stone" thought it was a vast conspiracy. Kept showing the puking over and over and in slowmo.

I thought the Seinfeld where - of all things - Wayne Knight, who was in the chair in "JFK" - was hit by the magic loogie was one of the best parodies I've ever seen. What's funny is I must have seen "JFK" 20 or 30 times before realizing that.
 

Jon

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Penn and Teller on their old program on Showtime whose name I cannot say or use the initials of without another 30 day suspension nailed this topic completely. They showed how the "magic bullet" wasn't at all magic as well as how Oswald was able to get the shots off he did quite easily. Very worth the watch
 

CrimsonJazz

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Penn and Teller on their old program on Showtime whose name I cannot say or use the initials of without another 30 day suspension nailed this topic completely. They showed how the "magic bullet" wasn't at all magic as well as how Oswald was able to get the shots off he did quite easily. Very worth the watch
I used to love that show. I wish they would bring it back. When it came to setting off both sides of the aisle, no one did it better than P&T.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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You will not be surprised to learn the motivational fallacy behind this guy is that he's one of those "King James Only" nuts.
I lived in Pensacola for 14 years and you could always spot the Ruckmanites easily because practically all of them had bumper stickers on their cars that said, "If it ain't King James, it ain't bible!" Now, I was agnostic at the time, but I knew a good bit about scriptural history. So imagine my genuine shock when I asked one of these people if the KJV was more divinely inspired than the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. (You can probably guess the answer.) I knew right there and then there was no chance of having a rational conversation with these people.
 
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DzynKingRTR

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Penn and Teller on their old program on Showtime whose name I cannot say or use the initials of without another 30 day suspension nailed this topic completely. They showed how the "magic bullet" wasn't at all magic as well as how Oswald was able to get the shots off he did quite easily. Very worth the watch
I have seen that show and the episode. Again a lot of the conspiracy talking points come from the Stone movie and they are wrong.

I may have already mentioned this, but I pulled off the shots with a similar rifle. Now my target was not moving, but I pulled off getting the shots quickly. Funny enough my first and second shot missed the target and then my third nailed it. We used a cantaloupe sitting on a box. First shot missed everything, second shot hit the box, third nailed the cantaloupe.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I lived in Pensacola for 14 years and you could always spot the Ruckmanites easily because practically all of them had bumper stickers on their cars that said, "If it ain't King James, it ain't bible!" Now, I was agnostic at the time, but I knew a good bit about scriptural history. So imagine my genuine shock when I asked one of these people if the KJV was more divinely inspired than the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. (You can probably guess the answer.) I knew right there and then there was no chance of having a rational conversation with these people.
Unfortunately I'm too familiar with them.

True story:
back around 2008 or so, Peter Ruckman "Jr" emailed me because he saw my list of college football games on DVD and wanted to acquire a few Florida State Seminoles football games. I responded and didn't hear back.

Do you know what happened to Ruckman Jr?

March 7, 2018
Authorities in northern Illinois say the son and two grandsons of a well-known longtime Pensacola pastor died in an apparent murder-suicide this weekend.

The Winnebago County coroner says 58-year-old Peter S. Ruckman died of gunshot wounds, along with 12-year-old John Ruckman and 14-year-old Christopher Ruckman.

Peter S. Ruckman is the son of Peter Sturges Ruckman, who was an internationally recognized pastor at Pensacola Bible Baptist Church. He died last year at the age of 94. The controversial, hard-line pastor created the Pensacola Bible Institute in the 1960s.
 

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