Jim McElwain Terminated by Florida

[Bazza]

Maybe it had something to do with his not wearing socks!

 

[TomFromBama]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Because "money" was one of four elements I listed as to why I think Florida should be a consistent contender.

LOL!! Yea, I read what you wrote.

Here's what you wrote:

"Couldn't disagree more. It's an SEC program with history and money in arguably the most talent rich state in the country. They should be en elite program year in and year out and if they aren't it's due to poor management. "

So lets see what the "four elements" are: I see, "history", "money" and "talent rich state"
What's the Fourth? That they are in the SEC?

Lets address all four!
- I covered "Money" above.
As for "History", I'd first suggest that UF does NOT have a history worth mentioning before 1990. Since they've played football for over 100 years (111 to be exact) - that means MOST of their "History" is mediocre.

BUT - for the sake of argument -
IF "HISTORY = CHAMPIONSHIPS"; then Alabama, Notre Dame, USCw, OU, Ohio State, Michigan and Texas would win nearly all the Titles. Aside from us?...... and even Alabama wasn't winning that many titles between Bryant and Saban....

IF "TALENT RICH STATE = CHAMPIONSHIPS" - We'd again have Texas, USCw and UCLA, UGa, and UF winning all the Titles. Not sure any of those schools have won all that many titles when they didn't ALSO have ELITE Coaches.

And "Assuming" factor 4 is that UF is an SEC team -
IF "SEC PROGRAM = CHAMPIONSHIPS" then Vandy, MSU, Old Mess, UGa, and UK would each winning Titles with some regularity.....

Hope that helps!!!

 

[BigAlinKnoxville]

We weren't TRULY SUCCESSFUL again until The University was far enough removed from Coach Bryant (over 20 years) and faced with a HARSH Enough Reality, that the School was (Grudgingly) willing to change the culture of the Athletics Department. To his ETERNAL CREDIT, it was Coach Moore, a man who had been as close to Coach Bryant as anyone on the planet, who saw the problem, faced it head on, and made the necessary changes.

Absolutely. Let me tell you, no one has more respect for Coach Bryant than me, but I'll never forget my frustration during those years when certain people were insisting that our coach must have a "connection to the Bear." I wanted to kindly tell them that if the Coach were still here, he would advise them to get the best coach available, regardless of his pedigree. And besides, one of his former players, Mike DuBose, didn't work out so well.

As far as I'm concerned, Coach Saban does indeed have a connection to Coach Bryant and here it is: he's a winner!

 

[Con]

LOTS of Truth here ^^^^.

Thinking back even further, to one of my ALL TIME Favorite coaches and favorite human beings - Gene Stallings -
We'd had two coaches who "failed", I'd submit at least Partially due to the lingering effects of Coach Bryant's tenure (That, and the fact that curry was a lousy coach and a worse human being.... But I digress... )

Stallings came in touted as the ONE person who could handle the expectations and embrace the legacy - and for 3 years that's just what he did. But eventually the INSTITUTIONAL SICKNESS at UA eventually took him out. It was Hootie Ingram's arrogance that 100% triggered the events that culminated in the 1995 probation, and it was UA's institutional "Knee-Jerk" reaction to that probation that lead to Stallings' premature "Retirement".

We weren't TRULY SUCCESSFUL again until The University was far enough removed from Coach Bryant (over 20 years) and faced with a HARSH Enough Reality, that the School was (Grudgingly) willing to change the culture of the Athletics Department. To his ETERNAL CREDIT, it was Coach Moore, a man who had been as close to Coach Bryant as anyone on the planet, who saw the problem, faced it head on, and made the necessary changes.

UF and UcheaT are BOTH facing similar issues. aubarn never has faced its "demons" - Pat Dye still "haunts" the halls of their athletics department. My sense, from the many comments spewing forth from the pie hole of "The Ole' Ball Sack" is that Florida REMAINS UNWILLING to face it's internal "demons" as well.

IF that's true, the results are predictable.

It is funny that you brought this up because I was just asking one of the UT people I know that probably keeps up with way too much UT stuff what was the word about their coach and he told me he feels like it is a done deal about Jones and that Fulmer and Petyon were handling the hiring of the new coach. Kind of goes right alont with your thoughts about hiring coaches at both of FL and TN.

 

[TitleWave]

What are the odds that UF has a new coach before Botch gets fired?

What are the odds that Mac has a new coaching job before Botch gets fired? SIAP but he's said to have taken a $4M buyout with $3M of that obligatorily going back to Colorado State. Would Mac have been that brazen (don't answer that) if he hadn't contracted a case of 'Huskeritis or other similar condition? Or could the head Gator who cried wolf (or woof) find that his apparent fibbing has left him out in the coaching cold for now?

 

[TitleWave]

Hah! Got that from Saban - and he hasn't suffered any ill effects "from the draft" or leaving his hosiery home.

Maybe it had something to do with his not wearing socks!

 

[UntouchableCrew]

LOL!! Yea, I read what you wrote.

Here's what you wrote:


So lets see what the "four elements" are: I see, "history", "money" and "talent rich state"
What's the Fourth? That they are in the SEC?

Lets address all four!
- I covered "Money" above.
As for "History", I'd first suggest that UF does NOT have a history worth mentioning before 1990. Since they've played football for over 100 years (111 to be exact) - that means MOST of their "History" is mediocre.

BUT - for the sake of argument -
IF "HISTORY = CHAMPIONSHIPS"; then Alabama, Notre Dame, USCw, OU, Ohio State, Michigan and Texas would win nearly all the Titles. Aside from us?...... and even Alabama wasn't winning that many titles between Bryant and Saban....

IF "TALENT RICH STATE = CHAMPIONSHIPS" - We'd again have Texas, USCw and UCLA, UGa, and UF winning all the Titles. Not sure any of those schools have won all that many titles when they didn't ALSO have ELITE Coaches.

And "Assuming" factor 4 is that UF is an SEC team -
IF "SEC PROGRAM = CHAMPIONSHIPS" then Vandy, MSU, Old Mess, UGa, and UK would each winning Titles with some regularity.....

Hope that helps!!!

You're still cherry picking things I said and applying them indiscriminately. The reason Florida should always be good is because they have ALL FOUR factors.

Yes, a team that plays in the SEC in the most talent rich state in the country, with money and history should always be good. Alabama should always be a top tier program. Florida should always be a top tier program -- in my lifetime these are the elite programs in the SEC, and have won more national titles than anyone else... This is what I'm talking about here.

Obviously you need a good coach to win. But the idea that you can ONLY win at Florida with a generational coach is preposterous to me. Ron Zook went 23-14 at Florida. You know what he did after that? Went 34-51 at Illinois and went back to being a special teams coach. He wasn't a good HC anywhere, still won 2/3 of his SEC games. Coach Mac? Won the SEC East twice while looking lifeless, will probably never be heard from again on the national scene.

Are Spurrier and Meyer HoF coaches? For sure -- they both dominated and won titles and UF and won pretty much everywhere else they went too. But the idea that UF shouldn't be at a minimum in the SEC title convo every year is ridiculous to me. If Dan Mullen gets the job they will be -- and I don't think he's a "generational coach."

 

[Padreruf]

Absolutely. Let me tell you, no one has more respect for Coach Bryant than me, but I'll never forget my frustration during those years when certain people were insisting that our coach must have a "connection to the Bear." I wanted to kindly tell them that if the Coach were still here, he would advise them to get the best coach available, regardless of his pedigree. And besides, one of his former players, Mike DuBose, didn't work out so well.

As far as I'm concerned, Coach Saban does indeed have a connection to Coach Bryant and here it is: he's a winner!

A deceased friend who worked for CPB/UA from 1959 through the late 90's once said to me that CNS was as close to CPB as he had ever seen...that if CPB were here he would be CNS' greatest fan. He specifically mentioned knowledge, drive and attendance to detail.

From where I sit you are quite correct in your observations...

 

[TomFromBama]

Agreed, but it makes sense when combined with the refusal to listen to Spurrier. Again, I agree with B1G that Spurrier can be brash and might have said some stupid stuff to xCJM to tick him off, but when you turn away a valuable resource like that - especially when you're struggling - that's hard to justify...

IF I may - Respectfully - offer a contrary opinion on that "Valuable Resource"?

Look, there's no question that Steve is still considered something of a "living legend' (if not a near-God incarnate) on the UF campus, both as a Heisman winning player and a Successful coach. And there's NO QUESTION that anyone in Mac's position absolutely should have made a big public show of genuflecting to Steve and stroking his wildly out-sized ego. No question. I agree 100%!!

But just how "Valuable" is Steve's football advice, Really?

As an Alabama fan, I can look at Steve as a coach who bloodied the nose of quite a few good Alabama teams.

But what did he really do, other than beat Alabama?
He won a lot of SEC Titles.... a couple DECADES Ago, and before the SEC got really strong in the 00's and early teens.
He won One NC - but (Arguably) that had as much to do with his DC (and FSU's injuries) as it did with Steve. His only other NC Game appearance was an embarrassingly lopsided ROUT.

Then he got "Bored" with UF boosters expecting him to win another NC, and left for the NFL - where he Failed.

Then he went to USCe - a school who's football history in 2005 when Steve arrived was roughly comparable to what UF's had been prior to 1990 - And Steve won a lot of games there...... By USCe standards.
But by objective standards, not so much. He won only a single Division title, even though almost half his time at USCe was in the weakened Post-Tebow era as the strength of the SEC-E was waning. (And, if memory serves, his USCe teams were known more for their Defenses than their Offenses.....)
Then, when he got "Bored" at USCe, he (figuratively) "flipped the bird" at his players and assistants, took his ball and went home - QUIT on his team in the middle of the season.

Respectfully, I'm not sure how "Valuable" that resource really IS in 2017.

No Flames - just my opinion.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Perk the Jerk.

I think that Perkins may have outlived his bad tempered days. I have met him twice since he has been gone. He was nice as he could be. Of course I'm Lineman Size and he isn't. OR... maybe it's because I like my coaches a little abrasive.

 

[PitMaster]

I think that Perkins may have outlived his bad tempered days. I have met him twice since he has been gone. He was nice as he could be. Of course I'm Lineman Size and he isn't. OR... maybe it's because I like my coaches a little abrasive.

Perkins has always been cordial and even nice to me, even allowed me to attend practice

 

[TomFromBama]

You're still cherry picking things I said and applying them indiscriminately. The reason Florida should always be good is because they have ALL FOUR factors.

Yes, a team that plays in the SEC in the most talent rich state in the country, with money and history should always be good. Alabama should always be a top tier program. Florida should always be a top tier program -- in my lifetime these are the elite programs in the SEC, and have won more national titles than anyone else... This is what I'm talking about here.

Obviously you need a good coach to win. But the idea that you can ONLY win at Florida with a generational coach is preposterous to me. Ron Zook went 23-14 at Florida. You know what he did after that? Went 34-51 at Illinois and went back to being a special teams coach. He wasn't a good HC anywhere, still won 2/3 of his SEC games. Coach Mac? Won the SEC East twice while looking lifeless, will probably never be heard from again on the national scene.

Are Spurrier and Meyer HoF coaches? For sure -- they both dominated and won titles and UF and won pretty much everywhere else they went too. But the idea that UF shouldn't be at a minimum in the SEC title convo every year is ridiculous to me. If Dan Mullen gets the job they will be -- and I don't think he's a "generational coach."

Hey - Look - I'm still new here and I want to make clear that I'm not trying to be obstinate or unnecessarily argumentative (it happens even when I'm NOT trying.... ), so no "Flames" intended, ok.

So IF your point is that UF 'Should" be able to win at a high level without an Elite coach - then yes, I agree.
But by the same token, so "Should" a LOT of other schools that don't dominate the sport, or even win at a high level - despite having all all the advantages that UF has. Hence my comment that money doesn't = Titles - and ditto for "Advantages".

Again, U.Texas has every "Advantage" that UF does, and more money than "GOD" on top of it. Take away VY - one "FREAK" of a generational QB, and they've had ONE relevant season since 1970.......

The reality is that UF has NEVER been a top-tier program, much less a NC contender, WITHOUT a "Generational" or Elite HC.
Yes, "in [your] lifetime" UF has been an Elite SEC program...... But - RESPECTFULLY - that's only a small part of their total Footbal history.
AND it includes the two eras when they had one of the aforementioned "Generational" coaches.
Outside of that?
Zook won a lot of games. His "Reward" was to be fired.
Mush-chump decimated that program, and Coach Mac... well,... he just didn't get it done.

So yes, I agree that UF "Should" be competing for SEC Titles with some regularity - but IMO the "Should" is based "on paper", not on history or real world outcomes.

AND, just as an aside, Don't sell Dan Mullen short! He's been every BIT of a "Generational" coach for MSU; a school that MIGHT have the least football "Advantages" of any SEC member. MSU has historically won LESS that 50% of their games, and Mullen is winning around 60% or better, and he's been doing it for almost NINE years, in an era when THREE Other SEC-W schools have won o rplayed for NC's, plus UF winning a NC in 2009, Dan's first year at MSU - and Dan's still winning 60% of his games at a Doormat program.
I'd call that "Generational" - and its why I'm REALLY HOPING that UF doesn't hire him!!!! :smile:

No flames - just my opinions.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

It is funny that you brought this up because I was just asking one of the UT people I know that probably keeps up with way too much UT stuff what was the word about their coach and he told me he feels like it is a done deal about Jones and that Fulmer and Petyon were handling the hiring of the new coach. Kind of goes right alont with your thoughts about hiring coaches at both of FL and TN.

If PF AND PM ARE DOING THE HIRING AT 10RC, DOES THAT MEAN WE CAN EXPECT THEM TO HIRE SOMEONE WHO IS FAT, EATS DONUTS BY THE GROSS, AND HAS NATIONWIDE INSURANCE?

 

[Con]

If PF AND PM ARE DOING THE HIRING AT 10RC, DOES THAT MEAN WE CAN EXPECT THEM TO HIRE SOMEONE WHO IS FAT, EATS DONUTS BY THE GROSS, AND HAS NATIONWIDE INSURANCE?

Exactly!

 

[RTR91]

I don't see why history before Spurrier is relevant, honestly. At the end of the day we're talking about how recruits perceive the program, right? I'm not saying UF is a "blue blood" but folks of my generation definitely perceive Florida as one of the premier programs in the country. They always have talent. They may need to update their facilities but I really don't see why a good coach wouldn't have them as a national power year in and year out.

History from the 70s and 80s means no more to Florida than it does to Nebraksa, IMO.

If we're talking about history that recruits would remember, you can't really include Meyer since the class of 2018 guys would have been 6-8 when Tebow was on the roster.

 

[rgw]

People tend to forget that fact about recruiting. There are kids coming to age today who barely followed football when Meyer and Tebow won 2 titles in 3 years but can hardly remember a time when Alabama wasn't competing for national titles. It is crazy how that works because around the time Tebow was in Gainesville, high school recruits only maybe barely remembered Alabama as a decent team in the late 90s.

 

[CrimsonProf]

In addition to the two comments immediately above this one, I think some of you are overlooking the extent to which many young players - particularly those from a lower income, chaotic social situation - only know what's right in front of them. That's means they don't know anything about Florida as a dominant force. A good recruiter could persuade them, but unless they're already a fan (or surrounded by them), they're not likely to be caught up in any aura.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BigAlinKnoxville]

If PF AND PM ARE DOING THE HIRING AT 10RC, DOES THAT MEAN WE CAN EXPECT THEM TO HIRE SOMEONE WHO IS FAT, EATS DONUTS BY THE GROSS, AND HAS NATIONWIDE INSURANCE?

Yes, and he'll also have a really big buyout:

 

[KrAzY3]

A good recruiter could persuade them, but unless they're already a fan (or surrounded by them), they're not likely to be caught up in any aura.

They don't need to be though. Florida, Miami, and FSU all tend to have good classes in large part because they are surrounded by talent. Now, of course there's a difference between having the #1 class and the #10 class, but the #10 class is still pretty darn good.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

If we're talking about history that recruits would remember, you can't really include Meyer since the class of 2018 guys would have been 6-8 when Tebow was on the roster.

I would bet most kids who grew up in Florida or the surrounding areas remember Tebow at UF and remember UF winning at least the 08 title, but point taken.