Mass/Active Shooters, Part **FIVE**

[CrimsonNagus]

View attachment 45396


Uh, back in the 80's and 90's people were made fun of for pointing this very thing out. Violence started becoming s big part of music, music videos, and video games. I distinctly remember those who pointed to the video games and music were completely made fun of. So now are we saying those people were right and we should have listened to them?

No, those people are still wrong. I have watched R rated movies since I was old enough, maybe before. I have played violent video games for 20+ years. GTA is one of my favorite game series. I have never had a single thought or urge to steal cars and shoot people. The attacks on video games in the 90's and early 2000s was ridiculous, just like the attack on comic books decades earlier. The people leading these charges are just scared of things they don't understand. The "we didn't need that when I was young" mentality.

Explain this to me, those same video games are available all over the world, but the US is the only country that has this mass shooting problem.

The one constant is the easy access to guns in this country. This is the only country in the world that has more guns then people. The right refuses to do anything to close that "loophole". They try to focus us on other things, oh it' a mental health problem, oh it's a violent movies problem, oh it's rap music, oh it's video games. They don't want us to see the real problem which is the easy access to guns. I don't want to hear the tired line "guns don't kill, people kill." If they didn't have access to the gun in the first place then it would not have happened.

 

[Jon]

View attachment 45396


Uh, back in the 80's and 90's people were made fun of for pointing this very thing out. Violence started becoming s big part of music, music videos, and video games. I distinctly remember those who pointed to the video games and music were completely made fun of. So now are we saying those people were right and we should have listened to them?

this is what this is referring to, not video games

Johnson City church gives away AR-15 in raffle to celebrate Independence Day

The pastor of the church said the person who won the gun had to pass a background check.

www.wbir.com

and this

 

[NationalTitles18]

President Joe Biden
·

https://www.facebook.com/#
We must ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines again, require safe storage of firearms, enact universal background checks, and end immunity for gun manufacturers.
Thoughts and prayers are not enough.

This whole FBI investigation is interesting to me. It's another area where reforming how things like that are handled could have made a difference.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

No, those people are still wrong. I have watched R rated movies since I was old enough, maybe before. I have played violent video games for 20+ years. GTA is one of my favorite game series. I have never had a single thought or urge to steal cars and shoot people. The attacks on video games in the 90's and early 2000s was ridiculous, just like the attack on comic books decades earlier. The people leading these charges are just scared of things they don't understand. The "we didn't need that when I was young" mentality.

Explain this to me, those same video games are available all over the world, but the US is the only country that has this mass shooting problem.

The one constant is the easy access to guns in this country. This is the only country in the world that has more guns then people. The right refuses to do anything to close that "loophole". They try to focus us on other things, oh it' a mental health problem, oh it's a violent movies problem, oh it's rap music, oh it's video games. They don't want us to see the real problem which is the easy access to guns. I don't want to hear the tired line "guns don't kill, people kill." If they didn't have access to the gun in the first place then it would not have happened.

I've shot and owned guns since I was 15 years old and have never shot or killed anyone or had the urge to. I had/have "easy access" and have yet to kill anyone. I've given you the same argument that you just gave me about video games and music. Access isn't the problem because if access literally was the problem every teenager who could get their hands on a gun would already have and killed umpteen millions of people a long time ago. Access or lack there of is a solution to treat a symptom, but saying access is the problem is not true. The desire to kill someone doesn't come from access. I'm sorry, it just doesn't.

 

[Jon]

I've shot and owned guns since I was 15 years old and have never shot or killed anyone or had the urge to. I had/have "easy access" and have yet to kill anyone. I've given you the same argument that you just gave me about video games and music. Access isn't the problem because if access literally was the problem every teenager who could get their hands on a gun would already have and killed umpteen millions of people a long time ago. Access or lack there of is a solution to treat a symptom, but saying access is the problem is not true. The desire to kill someone doesn't come from access. I'm sorry, it just doesn't.

the desire doesn't. But I'll say my ability to do woodworking is severely curtailed when I don't have access to the tools to do so

 

[CrimsonNagus]

You can say access isn't the problem but when we have proof from other countries with more restrictive gun laws that show otherwise, I tend to ignore that argument. If video games, music and movies were the problem then this would be a world-wide issue, but it is not. Funny how countries with less access to guns have far fewer mass shootings.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

this is what this is referring to, not video games

Johnson City church gives away AR-15 in raffle to celebrate Independence Day

The pastor of the church said the person who won the gun had to pass a background check.

www.wbir.com

and this

View attachment 45397

I don't think the driver of our shooting problem is because of a church. I get why you think so, but this is a grain of sand on the beach wrt the problem.

 

[jthomas666]

I'll give one solution that my sons HS has implemented this year that has paid HUGE dividends. Beginning this school year our school district has banned all cell phones during school hours. You can have your phone on you but it better not be out. The consequences for having it out are severe.

Is anybody interested in the short-term results of only one month of school? The fights on the middle school and HS level have dropped by 80% compared to year over year for the same time frame. That's right, 80%. These kids live in a perpetual digital world that they never unplug from and the result is 100 times the social stress that comes along with being a teen. It's amazing that removing just that component has made that type of positive difference on our campuses.

Yep. My wife's last school had no enforced phone policy, and it was chaos. The new school has a strict policy, and it is much calmer there.

Now, it's unreasonable to expect that one thing to fix everything, but it's a start.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

You can say access isn't the problem but when we have proof from other countries with more restrictive gun laws that show otherwise, I tend to ignore that argument. If video games, music and movies were the problem then this would be a world-wide issue, but it is not. Funny how countries with less access to guns have far fewer mass shootings.

You can ignore it all you want but the fundamentals of the argument prove access isn't the problem. There are more people/students than not who have access to guns every day (if they choose) who don't shoot people. Again, if access were the problem there would a 1,000 times more shootings than there currently are. I don't disagree that restricting access would address a symptom, but the desire to kill someone is a much bigger problem than access. It just is.

 

[Jon]

I don't think the driver of our shooting problem is because of a church. I get why you think so, but this is a grain of sand on the beach wrt the problem.

Im not saying it is because of a church

at all

I'm saying that our culture is broken. Right wing loonies taking pics with their guns like MT Greene, churches giving away AR's, "own the libs BS" involving guns, etc is the problem, as Nagus has shown every country in the world has access to the same media, same games but do NOT have these problems

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yep. My wife's last school had no enforced phone policy, and it was chaos. The new school has a strict policy, and it is much calmer there.

Now, it's unreasonable to expect that one thing to fix everything, but it's a start.

Completely agree, no way just that fixes everything. But I think it goes to show the negative social impact kids perpetually being on a phone has. Our school district has been pleasantly "shocked" at the decrease in violence aka "fights" that just removing phones has had. I applaud them for doing it.

 

[Bamaro]

One thing for sure, nothing will change as a result of this.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

Maybe access doesn't create the desire, but it does create the result. Countries with less access have fewer mass shootings. That's pretty clear cut to me. We can keep kidding ourselves that there is some other magical solution to the problem when the answer is staring us in the face across the world. Nothing will reduce the number of mass shootings until we seriously start limiting access to the weapons used.

Frankly, the 2nd amendment is holding this country hostage.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Im not saying it is because of a church

at all

I'm saying that our culture is broken. Right wing loonies taking pics with their guns like MT Greene, churches giving away AR's, "own the libs BS" involving guns, etc is the problem, as Nagus has shown every country in the world has access to the same media, same games but do NOT have these problems

Our culture has been broken for decades upon decades and it didn't just start with the rise of mass shootings. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the "right wing loonies" aren't the cause either. You could round up all of "those people", and lock them all up in prison and it wouldn't end mass shootings or decrease them one bit. We seek simple solutions for complex problems because that's how the brain works. My list of things as to why we've gotten to the point in our country won't look like yours, though we probably have some of the same things on our list. But I am not naive enough to believe it's because of "one thing" or one group of people. If it were, this problem would have been solved a long time ago.

Solutions have to be implemented into a society's current circumstances and our current circumstance is there are a massive amount of guns in this country owned legally by millions of law abiding citizens. So whatever solution is brought to the table, if one of them is to remove their right to keep and/or use the guns they currently own you can guarantee you will create a bigger problem than the one you're trying to solve. Granted, I'm not saying you specifically are suggesting this, but we cannot ignore the fact that there are literally MILLIONS of guns legally owned by law abiding citizens who are used to having that right. That is a dynamic that has to be considered when bringing solutions to the table.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Maybe access doesn't create the desire, but it does create the result. Countries with less access have fewer mass shootings. That's pretty clear cut to me. We can keep kidding ourselves that there is some other magical solution to the problem when the answer is staring us in the face across the world. Nothing will reduce the number of mass shootings until we seriously start limiting access to the weapons used.

Frankly, the 2nd amendment is holding this country hostage.

Let me ask you this, would you want a bigger problem to solve than the one we currently have with mass shootings? My guess is your honest answer is "no". But here's the reality, anyone who is in a leadership position has to make decisions within the environment in which they exist and I'm telling you, if "your"/anyone's solution to the problem is to take away use or ownership of current legal gun owners they will have a problem 100's times worse than our mass shootings. We can say all we want about how "it shouldn't be that way" or whatever, but there's how it should be and how it is. The smart thing is to make decisions based on how it is.

There's no way we can flip a switch and make our country "like" another country. It's the path our founding fathers chose when they made our Constitution, regardless of their intent. We are where we are. So, I'm for solutions that don't create bigger problems than the ones we're trying to solve.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

To be honest, I see the increased proliferation of social media use and the massive uptick in diagnosed mental health issues to be the primary drivers of this behavior. If I could change one thing about medical prescriptions, I would make it illegal for a standard PCP to prescribe any sort of antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. These medications should (IMO) only be prescribed by psychiatrists who are thoroughly trained in psychopharmacology and only after a patient has been properly diagnosed.

 

[jthomas666]

To be honest, I see the increased proliferation of social media use and the massive uptick in diagnosed mental health issues to be the primary drivers of this behavior. If I could change one thing about medical prescriptions, I would make it illegal for a standard PCP to prescribe any sort of antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication. These medications should (IMO) only be prescribed by psychiatrists who are thoroughly trained in psychopharmacology and only after a patient has been properly diagnosed.

I could understand having certain classes of psychoactive drugs limited to psychiatrists, but restricting all seems like a recipe for disaster--particularly given how poorly mental heath care is covered in most insurance plans.

 

[Jon]

Our culture has been broken for decades upon decades and it didn't just start with the rise of mass shootings. And I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the "right wing loonies" aren't the cause either. You could round up all of "those people", and lock them all up in prison and it wouldn't end mass shootings or decrease them one bit. We seek simple solutions for complex problems because that's how the brain works. My list of things as to why we've gotten to the point in our country won't look like yours, though we probably have some of the same things on our list. But I am not naive enough to believe it's because of "one thing" or one group of people. If it were, this problem would have been solved a long time ago.

Solutions have to be implemented into a society's current circumstances and our current circumstance is there are a massive amount of guns in this country owned legally by millions of law abiding citizens. So whatever solution is brought to the table, if one of them is to remove their right to keep and/or use the guns they currently own you can guarantee you will create a bigger problem than the one you're trying to solve. Granted, I'm not saying you specifically are suggesting this, but we cannot ignore the fact that there are literally MILLIONS of guns legally owned by law abiding citizens who are used to having that right. That is a dynamic that has to be considered when bringing solutions to the table.

I've not proposed a thing as to how we fix it as I have no idea

I'm simply pointing out problems based on what was posted. We have a massive right wing fetization of guns. That is undeniable. From family pics around the Christmas tree where even the toddlers look like they are ready for war, to AR-15 lapel pins, to AR giveaways at churches, there was even an AR Giveaway at the GOP Convention days after another young right-pilled male tried to kill Trump.

Which brings me to problem 2, toxic masculinity and the engine that feeds them.

These are just two.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I've not proposed a thing as to how we fix it as I have no idea

I'm simply pointing out problems based on what was posted. We have a massive right wing fetization of guns. That is undeniable. From family pics around the Christmas tree where even the toddlers look like they are ready for war, to AR-15 lapel pins, to AR giveaways at churches, there was even an AR Giveaway at the GOP Convention days after another young right-pilled male tried to kill Trump.

Which brings me to problem 2, toxic masculinity and the engine that feeds them.

These are just two.

Maybe I live in a hole absent the real world, but my wife nor I see families posting pictures with guns around the Christmas tree as seemingly some do. We're both active on social media with "friends" in the thousands and I can tell you I have never witnessed one person taking a family picture with AR's around the church Christmas tree nor ANY church I know of giving guns away, LOL!

I'm certain it happens but I just don't think it's to the degree that it is influencing society on the level you're suggesting. But then again, maybe my family lives under a rock and we haven't realized it. LOL!

 

[Chukker Veteran]

It’s seems plain that either there are too many guns with easy access to them or Americans are more trigger happy than any where else.