Question: Miles vs. Saban: Bringing the gavel down

[LCN]

How about a coach that went 11-2 despite having his first three games moved because of the hurricanes and having his campus turned into a madhouse for a month. And then being the first rookie SEC coach to take a team to the SECCG. We found out what kind of a leader Les was in year one.

Who is "best" is always subject to speculation and is entirely subjective, especially those who talk about the "buffoon factor" or who is the biggest "jerk". What can be objective is the record. Nick was a fine coach at LSU and looks like he'll al so be one at Bama. Les has been a fine coach at LSU too.

To be objective, Les is starting his 5th year at LSU:

last 5-years recruiting:

• Les averaged 3.78 stars per player (counting current commits)
• Nick averaged 3.58 stars per player (counting current commits, and his last two classes at LSU)

last 4-years record:

• Les = 42-11 (.792) 1 SEC and 1 BCS title
• Nick = 41-11 (.788) (counting last two at LSU) 1 SEC and 1 BCS title (both at LSU)

It's a wash. Two fine coaches with different styles. One is a cool, focused individual but kind of a jerk dealing with people. One is a warm, inclusive individual but kind of goofy in front of a camera. Both of them can write their own ticket in this business.

Red , obviously our opinions differ as in my mind it's far from a wash . That said , the next lsu fan , other than you , that I speak with who feels Les is a better coach than Saban , I'll let you know because it will be a first .

One question ..... In your opinion , do you believe CLM could've taken the Tide to the heights which have been reached under Coach Saban over the past 24 months ? I think you already know what my answer would be to that question .

 

[Pluck and Grit]

Here is something from the article:

Those same qualities that made Saban such a success at LSU wore thin in his five years in Baton Rouge. By the time he left, according to more than one of the coaches, nobody in the football or athletic departments was sad to see him go.

Now that is absolutely, positively the first time I've heard that one. I hereby call BS.

 

[Pluck and Grit]

Well, it's crazy thinking that talent alone wins games. If true, then USC or Texas would win it all every year. Why didn't Ron Zook win with the talent Spurrier left behind? Why didn't Dubose win with the fine talent that Stallings left behind? Five years down the road, it's clear to most serious football observers that Nick is not the coach responsible for LSU's most recent success. Nick's players are no longer at LSU and there has not been a talent drop-off.

Neither Spurrier nor Stallings left behind a great deal of talent when they left those jobs.

As for Les, LSU, and Saban's recruits:
The 2007 season was the last season in which LSU had significant contribution from Saban recruits. 17 senior starters were Saban recruits. LSU went 12-2 and won the national championship. One year later, with very few Saban recruits left on the team, they were 8-5. This, after going 11-2 each of the first two years without Saban, but still loaded full of Saban recruits. I report, you decide.

As for USC and Texas, they are certainly competitive every year. 2000 was the last year in which both of those teams did not win 10+ games. Of course, no team can win the NC every year. It makes your statement "then USC and Texas would win it all every year" kind of amusing, since obviously they can't both do it.

 

[resmith]

Let's just say that I am happy to have CNS and that LSU has CLM. And that is all that I care about in regard to this discussion.

 

[crimson_blood]

Moebert, are you a closet corndog?

 

[liquidvengeance]

One question ..... In your opinion , do you believe CLM could've taken the Tide to the heights which have been reached under Coach Saban over the past 24 months ? I think you already know what my answer would be to that question .

IMO I highly doubt it.

 

[bayoutider]

It's crasy thinking that talent alone wins games. If true, then USC and Texas would win every year. Why didn't Ron Zook win with the talent Spurrier left behind? Why didn't Dubose win with the fine talent that Stallings left behind? Five years down the road, it's obvious to all but the most biased observers that Nick is not the coach responsible for LSU's recent success.

And Nick didn't leave Les crippled with bad recruiting classes how hard is that to understand?

Look at what Nick did with DiNardo recruits and Shula recruits.

Les is a good coach for LSU glad LSU is happy with him Les can recruit in a state with little to no competition for the state's top athletes.

 

[bayoutider]

Well, it's crazy thinking that talent alone wins games. If true, then USC or Texas would win it all every year. Why didn't Ron Zook win with the talent Spurrier left behind? Why didn't Dubose win with the fine talent that Stallings left behind? Five years down the road, it's clear to most serious football observers that Nick is not the coach responsible for LSU's most recent success. Nick's players are no longer at LSU and there has not been a talent drop-off.

Stallings wasn't near the recruiter you think he is. I agree there has been no drop-off in talent sighed by Les but there sure has been a drop on in the win loss column hasn't there amigo? What do you attribute that to? All we heard in pre-season was how great this 08 Tiger team was going to be, how LSU was loaded, how there was going to be no dropoff in defense, how the OL was reloading and QB was no problem.

 

[bayoutider]

Are y'all trying to bait a Tigerfan into another Miles/Saban throwdown so the thread can be locked and a Tiger can get banned?? :biggrin:

They do use elephants to hunt tigers you know.

 

[red55]

Red , obviously our opinions differ as in my mind it's far from a wash . That said , the next lsu fan , other than you , that I speak with who feels Les is a better coach than Saban , I'll let you know because it will be a first .

Come over to TigerForums and try again! :biggrin:

One question ..... In your opinion , do you believe CLM could've taken the Tide to the heights which have been reached under Coach Saban over the past 24 months ? I think you already know what my answer would be to that question .

It just seems silly to speculate, don't you think, amigo? Especially if you think the numbers mean nothing. All I'm saying for those who still think that Les is some kind of a buffoon who is amazingly lucky is this . . . I've watched both men coach my team and I don't think there's much difference between them in capability. Style yes, but results, no.

• Nick's 1st 4 years at LSU = 39-13; 2 div, 2 SEC, 1 BCS championships
• Les' 1st 4 years at LSU = 42-11; 2 div, 1 SEC, 1 BCS championships.

Les won more games and recruited slightly better, but Nick won an extra SEC title for LSU. And comparing them head to head:

• Nick's two years at Bama = 19-8;
• Les' last two years at LSU = 20-7; 1 div, 1 SEC, 1 BCS championships

It's apparently very important for you guys to have the "best" coach, so I understand your insistence that Les can't "really" coach. But as far as LSU fans are concerned (and I speak for more of them than you do), we haven't had a bad coach in 9 years and we wouldn't trade Les for Nick. You are right in that none of us think that Nick is a bad coach, but none of us think Les is either. We think they have been equally good at their jobs but the difference for us is . . . Nick had a chance to take his dream job in the NFL and he walked. Les had a chance to take his dream job at his alma mater Michigan . . . and he stayed.

 

[red55]

Les is a good coach for LSU glad LSU is happy with him Les can recruit in a state with little to no competition for the state's top athletes.

True, but it must be noted that Les had recruited almost half of his athletes from out-of-state, more than any other LSU coach. This year it is over half from out of state and we could end up with the #1 class. It's more than LSU's dominance of Louisiana recruiting . . . Les can recruit.

I agree there has been no drop-off in talent sighed by Les but there sure has been a drop on in the win loss column hasn't there amigo?

Yep, LSU will never win again. No need to worry about LSU this year. Doofus coach. Nick's talent is gone. Automatic win for Bama. Could do it with one hand behind their back :biggrin:

They do use elephants to hunt tigers you know.

Because they're dangerous!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jojNzvtP6LY]YouTube - tiger vs man on elephant[/ame]

 

[deltatider]

Moebert, are you a closet corndog?

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!!!!

 

[rolltidescott]

Let's just say that I am happy to have CNS and that LSU has CLM. And that is all that I care about in regard to this discussion.

Agreed.

 

[CullmanTide]

Moebert, are you a closet corndog?

Most posters on here from rival schools are honest about who the root for. That is not always the case however. Its good to hear opinions from fans of different schools. Its not good when some pretend to be something other than who they really are.

 

[moebert]

Been a Bama fan since I was 5 and got my first hat for Christmas. Don't really care who believes me or doesn't believe me, but I refuse to wear my Crimson colored glasses all day long. I've always been one to tell it like it is no matter the subject. I appreciate Nick Saban for what he has done for my Crimson Tide but will not let that blur my perception of other coaches abilities. There are other good coaches outside of T-town. Personally, I wouldn't trade CNS for any coach in the nation but that doesn't change the fact that Les has done a superb job at LSU.

This year LSU ran into a couple of unfortunate circumstances that was the cause of them losing 5 games, not cause "Nick's talent is gone". That is the lamest argument I've ever heard. Those of you using that argument seem to be trying to convince yourselves that Saban's recruits are touched by angels. Losing your starting QB and D coordinator aren't excuses, they're unfortunate circumstances that could happen to any team.

It is what it is, both coaches are worthy of praise.

 

[crimson_blood]

Been a Bama fan since I was 5 and got my first hat for Christmas. Don't really care who believes me or doesn't believe me, but I refuse to wear my Crimson colored glasses all day long. I've always been one to tell it like it is no matter the subject. I appreciate Nick Saban for what he has done for my Crimson Tide but will not let that blur my perception of other coaches abilities. There are other good coaches outside of T-town. Personally, I wouldn't trade CNS for any coach in the nation but that doesn't change the fact that Les has done a superb job at LSU.

This year LSU ran into a couple of unfortunate circumstances that was the cause of them losing 5 games, not cause "Nick's talent is gone". That is the lamest argument I've ever heard. Those of you using that argument seem to be trying to convince yourselves that Saban's recruits are touched by angels. Losing your starting QB and D coordinator aren't excuses, they're unfortunate circumstances that could happen to any team.

It is what it is, both coaches are worthy of praise.

I am picking up a strong corndog scent coming from the closet. Come on outta there, Moebert.

Seriously, you are the only Bama fan I've ever heard heaping high praises on Lester Miles. I don't buy it...

 

[crains]

:BigA: I agree with you crimson blood!!! I dont buy it either! It is the responsibilty of the head coach to adequately replace his defensive coordinator, the same as it was for Saban to replace his offensive coordinator! It seems their defense played quite well! You can say what you want, he won the NC with the talent Saban recruited! At the present time their are only 2 outstanding coaches in the SEC and that is Saban and Myer not Myles!!! My opinion is Saban is the best! He took over programs that were down and built them! Myer and Myles inherited programs with a lot of talent! What did Myles accomplish before he came to LSU???

 

[bayoutider]

:BigA: I agree with you crimson blood!!! I dont buy it either! It is the responsibilty of the head coach to adequately replace his defensive coordinator, the same as it was for Saban to replace his offensive coordinator! It seems their defense played quite well! You can say what you want, he won the NC with the talent Saban recruited! At the present time their are only 2 outstanding coaches in the SEC and that is Saban and Myer not Myles!!! My opinion is Saban is the best! He took over programs that were down and built them! Myer and Myles inherited programs with a lot of talent! What did Myles accomplish before he came to LSU???

Les beat Bob Stoops Sooners in Norman his first year at OSU then did it again the fololowing year. Stoops won the next two meetings.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think the comparing records of when Nick was at LSU and Miles is comparing apples to oranges.

Part of Nick's tenure was spent rebuilding the program while Miles hasn't had to rebuild. They didn't start off in the same place so to sit there and say Miles has had a better record and better "star rating" with respect to recruiting is a bit, well a lot misleading. The first two to three years was reshaping and rebuilding the program for Nick. Miles on the other hand walked into a program that had already gone through the rebuilding process and didn't need any foundation work.

If the two would have started off in the same situation at LSU I could buy the statistical comparison. But since one started off rebuilding a program and the other started off with just having to reload then those statistics don't mean squat.

They're both good coaches.

 

[rizolltizide]

and Miles has sustained, if not bettered, that. The man won 11 games three years straight. Saban didn't come close to that in a three year stretch.


About as well, if not better, as Saban did before arriving to LSU.




Again, i challenge any team to be successful after losing their starting QB right before the season. I don't care how much talent you have.


All this talk about him inheriting Nick's talent as the reason to his success is a wash cause Miles is racking in just as much talent.

You have to hang this one on Lester. It is not like their starting QB went down with an injury. Was this the first time Perrilloux was in trouble? I don't think so. And many people, LSU fans included, said RP should have already been gone because this is what was going to happen, and it did. No body to blame but himself, or whoever was responsible for recruiting QB's.