Milroe v Marino

[selmaborntidefan]

If Donovan McNabb had two SB rings he'd be in the HOF.

Donovan McNabb also has:
- a winning percentage 111 points higher than Eli (.611 vs .500)
- less than 1/2 as many interceptions (110 interceptions is some serious damage and why Eli was .500)
- nearly 3K more rushing yards
- was ahead of Eli in most categories most seasons head-to-head and never led the league in INTs 3x

With McNabb, "He ALSO won 2 Super Bowls" would be a clinching argument for a borderline case.
With Eli, it is literally the ENTIRE argument. That and "oh, he happens to be 11th all-time in passing yards because the game has changed so much".

Other than his two Super Bowl years, Eli was 0-4 in the playoffs.
McNabb led his team to playoff wins in SIX DIFFERENT seasons.


So you are correct, McNabb is probably in the Hall with two rings.

But he isn't there ONLY because he won 2 rings.
It's more along the lines of Curt Schilling than Greg Maddux.

 

[The Ols]

because it is a better discussion than the ridiculous comparison of a hall of fame QB and a guy that not only did not play in the super bowl, but was inactive for 90% of the year.

Dude it isn’t a comparison it was a conversation piece…and look, there’s a conversation…my goodness. Why so bent?

 

[selmaborntidefan]

How did a thread about Milroe and Marino turn into a discussion about whether Eli Manning is a HOFer?

To be more diplomatic than my last reply, it's because for reasons that make no sense to me, "won the Super Bowl" is some sort of magical argument for the intellectually lazy.

Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, and Doug Williams won Super Bowls.
Jake Delhomme and Vince Ferragamo came close.
Dan Marino didn't.


Which would you rather have quarterback your team if you were building a franchise?

 

[DzynKingRTR]

Dude it isn’t a comparison it was a conversation piece…and look, there’s a conversation…my goodness. Why so bent?

if it isn't a comparison then learn what vs means. Why is milroe still in your head? There are other scout team QBs that never saw the field that have super bowl rings too through the years. So what?

 

[Power Eye]

The thing about it is Eli is still the 3rd best quarterback in his own draft class yet he was the first taken and the most talked about one of that draft class.

If people are on the fence about about Phillip rivers and Big Ben then why are they so sure about Eli Manning.

I think Roethlisberger is a definite HOFer. He probably isn't a first ballot guy, but he will get in. Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan, to me, are the biggest question marks in terms of recent QBs. I've never thought of either as top five QBs over the course of their careers, especially when compared to Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers. I don't think you can just look at the career numbers of each of them since it's such a different game than it was even twenty-five years ago.

As for Eli, you can't ignore the two super bowl victories, particularly, who the Giants beat, both times. Eli wouldn't sniff the HOF without the two rings, but right or wrong, NFL QBs' HOF resumes start with how many super bowls did they win. I think Eli had a good enough career coupled with the two SB wins to get in.

 

[davefrat]

To be more diplomatic than my last reply, it's because for reasons that make no sense to me, "won the Super Bowl" is some sort of magical argument for the intellectually lazy.

Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, and Doug Williams won Super Bowls.
Jake Delhomme and Vince Ferragamo came close.
Dan Marino didn't.


Which would you rather have quarterback your team if you were building a franchise?

I guess a sort of related question would be, as a QB, would you rather win a SB or be in the HOF?

I’m not sure that question makes sense for any other position, but for a QB it might be a closer call than many might think.

Would Marino choose the HOF or a SB ring?

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

What was it like seeing the invention of dirt?

Dirt...has ALWAYS been around.

Now Astroturf being a new thing, I remember.

 

[The Ols]

if it isn't a comparison then learn what vs means. Why is milroe still in your head? There are other scout team QBs that never saw the field that have super bowl rings too through the years. So what?

Don’t go after my intelligence. I largely stayed out of the Milroe crap…This was an innocent conversation starting topic…and there’s conversation…get off of me…legit.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I guess a sort of related question would be, as a QB, would you rather win a SB or be in the HOF?

I’m not sure that question makes sense for any other position, but for a QB it might be a closer call than many might think.

Would Marino choose the HOF or a SB ring?

I'd rather be in the Hall of Fame.

People 100 years from now will see my plaque and know about me.
Nobody outside of his family is going to remember who Jalen Milroe was once he retires NOR will they even remember he won a ring. It's not like when Larry Brown picked off two passes and won the MVP.

The Super Bowl ring is the pinnacle of TEAM accomplishment.
The HOF is the pinnacle of INDIVIDUAL accomplishment.

If you have enough INDIVIDUALS who accomplish on the same team, the Super Bowl ring takes care of itself. If you're the only superstar on a team - like when Archie Manning was on the Saints (most years) - you're not watching the Super Bowl without a streaming service.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I think Roethlisberger is a definite HOFer. He probably isn't a first ballot guy, but he will get in. Phillip Rivers and Matt Ryan, to me, are the biggest question marks in terms of recent QBs. I've never thought of either as top five QBs over the course of their careers, especially when compared to Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers. I don't think you can just look at the career numbers of each of them since it's such a different game than it was even twenty-five years ago.

I loathe the Steelers, but Big Ben is a HOFer.

Let's see, Rivers has:
- a better record as a starter (only 11 more career games)
- a much better passing pct (64.9 vs 60.3)
- nearly 7K more passing yards (in only 11 more starts - that's some damn good passing)
- led the league in passing yards once (Eli never) and TDs twice (Eli - never)
- gone 3-0 vs Eli head-to-head


So let's see.....when a guy has a better record, more passing yards, is a better pct passer and led in good stats, you know what we say?

HE IS THE BETTER QUARTERBACK!!!

So if Rivers is not in the Hall of Fame, Eli damn sure isn't.
Put Rivers on the Giants and what happens?

As for Eli, you can't ignore the two super bowl victories,

I agree, you can't ignore them.

But you CAN put them in proper context. Rings should neither be ignored nor exalted as the be all/end all. That's my problem with the Eli debate.

Jim Plunkett was also a .500 QB and won two rings.
He's not in the HOF.

Why not?
Is it because he only led the leagues in picks once?

particularly, who the Giants beat, both times. Eli wouldn't sniff the HOF without the two rings, but right or wrong, NFL QBs' HOF resumes start with how many super bowls did they win.

Again, nobody has ever said Jim Plunkett belongs.
And he doesn't.

Plunkett LOST THE STARTER JOB early in 1983 to Marc Wilson and came back when he got injured.
The Raiders won SB 18 because of Marcus Allen not because of Plunkett.

And the Giants won SB 42 largely because of their defense, not because of Eli Manning.
(I give Eli complete credit for SB 46, he played great. So did Plunkett to win the MVP in 15).

I think Eli had a good enough career coupled with the two SB wins to get in.

I just don't see how this is possible.

Subtract those two seasons and he has as losing overall record.

Funny to me how he gets all that credit for the two wins but none of the blame for when his team sucked.