News Article: NCAA poised to create separate division for SEC, Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12, Big 12

[Tide1986]

I don't mean this to be cheeky or argumentative even though I'm sure it may read like that.

Would you mind expanding on why you feel so strongly that the players should not earn out of playing football?

My own view is that only a small percentage of these players will make it to the NFL and make serious money out of the sport. The game on the other hand generates huge sums of money for the schools, coaches, affiliations and even the TV networks, yet the young men who put their bodies on the line for the entertainment of others receive nothing. Let's not kid ourselves here, they risk serious injury and paralysis when they take to the field. Such injuries may be rare but the risk is ever present.

I simply don't buy the top notch education line, would Bama or any other upper echelon program retain a player who had a football scholarship and who was doing brilliantly academically but failing to live up to expectations on the field? I don't know, but I doubt it.

Football got them to college because football makes the colleges money, why should the guys who take the risk be the only ones to miss out?

The view that paying them would be some sort of final straw and drive you away from the game surprises me and I would appreciate hearing your reasons why?

The simple fact of the matter is that high school football players can choose not to play football in college and simply be students, thereby not taking the so-called risks you mention.

 

[Bamaro]

I understand they get a scholarship, I understand that in itself has a significant monetary value, however what is the real value of that scholarship to a player who can't read and write, after college if he does not make to the pros? I have no idea of the stats but do a significant percentage of players who do not go pro go on to earn big bucks in later life because of their college qualifications or do more make a living from reliving the glories of their brief period of fame?

If you get to college via football (presumably high school first) but are illiterate, it indicates that you either commit to football over your education or you are just not that smart, I can't see 4, 5 or 6 years of college education fixing either of those, regardless of how high the equivalent value of the scholarship actually is.

They have no business playing college football or even being in college in the first place.

 

[JDCrimson]

They have no business playing college football or even being in college in the first place.

Well, I absolutely disagree with this statement. Is it better to have them in an environment where they might actually learn something (a trade like football or coaching) or have them wash out of high school illiterate and on the streets likely selling drugs? If the school is willing to foot the bill to give them a scholarship and that is one less kid in prison that my tax dollars doesnt have to house then Im all for them being in college in a disciplined environment. And for the record very few of them are actually illiterate. And of those who are it was their HS that primarily failed them so are we just to abandon these kids because someone else didnt do their job? We are only one generation removed from segregation and a lot of these kids are probably the first in their family to go to college. So what background do these kids have on the importance of investing in their education from their family who likely doesnt have much education or impaired opportunity to get it.

The way I see it, sports training in college is no different than those who go to a trade school right out of HS. These kids are learning a trade that can potentially earn them millions. Obviously, if they dont make it or once their playing days are over they have to consider other options. That's why the bigger schools with the new legislation want to invest in providing lifetime learning programs for these athletes. I myself had a dream career prepared for myself for all of my young adult life and college life but age 24 through no fault of my own my dream career was not an option anymore. I had to start over and go back to school to learn something I could make a living at - at time when most of friends embarked on a careers they started learning in their freshman year. I dont see these athletes putting all their interest into a sport as any different than my situation - it just didnt work out. Its life it happens.

Since when is college only available to the academic elite? The benefits of going to college have proven to be substantial no matter the level of education you had when you entered. Frankly, the government has spent billions over time to give kids like these the opportunity to go to college knowing full well if they just abandoned these kids we would have a prison in every county trying keep them up. Now which scenario would you rather sign up for in this case?

 

[Bama Torch in Pcola]

Well it's common to confuse the stipend with just outright paying players for performance or the like, but the stipend pre-existed NCAA restrictions, and it was only really prohibited to keep programs like Alabama from distancing themselves (the scholarship limits being the biggest step). I didn't read the article either, but it's something I've followed so I think I have a pretty good idea what the topics are, heh...

I guess you can call it a stipend and still be accurate, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pay for play. Players already have access to many perks that regular students do not. They receive a scholarship, room, board, and personal tutors to help them along. I don't begrudge them any of this, Lord knows they earn it.

You mentioned Fluker earlier, does the fact that his family was homeless at some point give him the right to put the entire program in jeopardy for some new furniture and a trip to New Orleans? I'm not at all sure that it does. It's sad that we now make excuses for people who cheat.

The scholarship argument alone is enough to put this argument to bed for me, but I understand it isn't enough for some people. For those I would just say this, we are on the precipice of a slippery slope. Once the line is crossed there is no going back. The "stipend" will never be enough. We will see it go up from time to time. It will grow and grow until universities simply cannot keep up, then they will be left behind by those who can.

Another point, we can say goodbye to the rise of the Florida States and Boise States. The general pecking order will be set. Seeing programs rise up and compete with the big boys is one of the most magical facets of college football, once that is gone, it's gone.

Let's all please realize that this isn't some altruistic quest on the part of Slive, Delaney, et al. This is a heavy handed attempt to set the hierarchy, now, and for all time.

In closing, you don't have standing to question my Tidefans chops. Please refrain.

 

[bamacon]

Coach Bryant wanted to make divisions without the NCAA.

 

[Bama Torch in Pcola]

Coach Bryant wanted to make divisions without the NCAA.

You just wrecked my argument with one sentence. Thanks a lot! :mad2:

 

[BigBama76]

Hold the reigns on this. Media folks are tweeting that Forde is exaggerating this.

From what I've read about it there's a 14 page report and is being pushed by the bigger conferences. They're playing it down right now but there could be movement towards the big conferences having more say. There has been past threats of leaving the NCAA altogether.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

From reading the comments, I believe no one has read anything else on this meeting except this one article. The use of the word "stipend" is misleading. What is being discussed is bringing scholarshipped athletes up to the same level as that permitted for students on academic scholarship, period. It's just to cover the complete cost of attending college. That's all. It was allowed in the past, but then it was artificially lowered by the NCAA to a level 2-3 thousand less, in one more misguided attempt to level the playing field between small and large schools. A lot of our players come from desperately poor backgrounds and have no help from home to make up the difference. This makes for a dangerous situation and one which practically invites illegal financial incursions. I just don't think some realize just how poor some of these kids are. One of our past coaches didn't care whether his players ate between terms or not, although meals were allowed during the interims. Some of the players I knew had nothing - NOTHING - to eat. Groups of us got together to feed them and if that's a violation, to feed a hungry kid, then so be it. I guess I'm just getting fed up with this "Let them eat cake" attitude...

 

[bamacon]

To be honest Earle a lot of folks don't know the "cake" she was referring too. Not at Tidefans.com though

 

[TIDE-HSV]

To be honest Earle a lot of folks don't know the "cake" she was referring too. Not at Tidefans.com though

Yeah. Probably a wrong assumption on my part. Maybe they can google "Marie Antoinette."

 

[RWBTide]

I guess you can call it a stipend and still be accurate, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pay for play. Players already have access to many perks that regular students do not. They receive a scholarship, room, board, and personal tutors to help them along. I don't begrudge them any of this, Lord knows they earn it.

You mentioned Fluker earlier, does the fact that his family was homeless at some point give him the right to put the entire program in jeopardy for some new furniture and a trip to New Orleans? I'm not at all sure that it does. It's sad that we now make excuses for people who cheat.

The scholarship argument alone is enough to put this argument to bed for me, but I understand it isn't enough for some people. For those I would just say this, we are on the precipice of a slippery slope. Once the line is crossed there is no going back. The "stipend" will never be enough. We will see it go up from time to time. It will grow and grow until universities simply cannot keep up, then they will be left behind by those who can.

Another point, we can say goodbye to the rise of the Florida States and Boise States. The general pecking order will be set. Seeing programs rise up and compete with the big boys is one of the most magical facets of college football, once that is gone, it's gone.

Let's all please realize that this isn't some altruistic quest on the part of Slive, Delaney, et al. This is a heavy handed attempt to set the hierarchy, now, and for all time.

In closing, you don't have standing to question my Tidefans chops. Please refrain.

As a newbie and an outsider, its very easy for me to be guilty of forming opinions based on incomplete information. You make some valid points, particularly in terms of a teams rising to challenge the established 'big boys' of the game.

I think that in my very first post on tidefans I questioned the lack of monetary reward for the players given the revenues generated. I think I also advocated a set reward, or set salary if you prefer, equal for all players - assuming equal appearances, not a huge sum but something. I think that is where I still stand although I do appreciate you explaining your view.

 

[Golden Isles]

Be easier to pay the players a minimum wage if the profitable teams branched off. I would bet 50% of our team's players are eligible for Pell Grants.

This is a 1st step. NCAA football has surpassed every sport other than NFL in popularity, and their is a difference between Alabama and Western Kentucky, and the two should not be in the same group.

 

[KrAzY3]

I guess you can call it a stipend and still be accurate, but that doesn't change the fact that it's pay for play.

No, no it's not.

I know he posted this afterwards, but I'm quoting him because everyone needs to read what he said and let it sink in. What we're talking about here is something that might not be needed for most of the student athletes, but unquestionably it is needed for some, and the environment that the NCAA has created, in which a cheeseburger is a violation has put some of these kids from poor families in a spot. Also, you might not know what it's like not to have a bed to sleep in, but it's not very nice and I won't judge anyone for wanting basic things like that for themselves or their families.

What is being discussed is bringing scholarshipped athletes up to the same level as that permitted for students on academic scholarship, period. It's just to cover the complete cost of attending college. That's all. It was allowed in the past, but then it was artificially lowered by the NCAA to a level 2-3 thousand less, in one more misguided attempt to level the playing field between small and large schools. A lot of our players come from desperately poor backgrounds and have no help from home to make up the difference. This makes for a dangerous situation and one which practically invites illegal financial incursions. I just don't think some realize just how poor some of these kids are.

It might not sound like much, but for those that are actually in need, a couple thousand dollars a year can make a world of difference. You've nailed it in terms of this being simply being intended to cover complete cost. Some players won't need it, some will.

 

[RWBTide]

Be easier to pay the players a minimum wage if the profitable teams branched off. I would bet 50% of our team's players are eligible for Pell Grants.

This is a 1st step. NCAA football has surpassed every sport other than NFL in popularity, and their is a difference between Alabama and Western Kentucky, and the two should not be in the same group.

I'm sure I've mentioned this previously, 2 months on the board and I'm repeating myself already, my opinion as to what makes college football special and in my opinion stand out from the rest of American sports is the passion.

You see it at the games, you see it in the fans and it drips from most of the posters on here . AJ McCarron in tears at the end of a game winning drive against LSU stands out in my mind as the definitive example of the fans passion translating to the field, being embraced and shared by the players. Under the current system though, for the truly talented individuals, Bama or any other team is just a vehicle to get them to where they can make money from their abilities and that I feel guarantees that such players will never really share the passion for the team that you guys do.

 

[CrimsonProf]

I'm sure I've mentioned this previously, 2 months on the board and I'm repeating myself already, my opinion as to what makes college football special and in my opinion stand out from the rest of American sports is the passion.

You see it at the games, you see it in the fans and it drips from most of the posters on here . AJ McCarron in tears at the end of a game winning drive against LSU stands out in my mind as the definitive example of the fans passion translating to the field, being embraced and shared by the players. Under the current system though, for the truly talented individuals, Bama or any other team is just a vehicle to get them to where they can make money from their abilities and that I feel guarantees that such players will never really share the passion for the team that you guys do.

This is a very real downside to our current recruiting strategy. As effective as it is, we're getting a lot of guys on our team who simply don't understand or appreciate what it means to wear that Crimson jersey. It's hard to argue with the results, but when you see the lack of enthusiasm for the Iron Bowl, it makes me think that maybe CNS should send Kevin Elko to get a cup of coffee and find some former players to take our boys through the Bryant Museum and explain to them that your time at the Capstone is about more than your ticket to the NFL.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

As a newbie and an outsider, its very easy for me to be guilty of forming opinions based on incomplete information. You make some valid points, particularly in terms of a teams rising to challenge the established 'big boys' of the game.

I think that in my very first post on tidefans I questioned the lack of monetary reward for the players given the revenues generated. I think I also advocated a set reward, or set salary if you prefer, equal for all players - assuming equal appearances, not a huge sum but something. I think that is where I still stand although I do appreciate you explaining your view.

One thing to remember is that even with the "big boys," the outgoes often exceed the revenue. Year before last, I think there were only 13 schools in the black. It seems to me that, this past year, it may have climbed to something like 17. Bottom line, there are only a few programs turning a "profit." Bama is fortunate to make enough to give back to the academic programs, but we are very fortunate. There's just not as much money to roll around in as it might appear from looking at gross revenues only.

Another misconception to dispel is that we have illiterates playing. We don't. Season before last, we were second only to Stanford in graduation rate. I'm not sure about last season, but we were very high. Now, are all these kids studying to be rocket scientists? Of course not. A lot of them end up with studies in general areas. (A lot of Stanford's football players do also.) However, it's a diploma, and that counts for a lot in getting a job later, if the NFL doesn't work out. I think that all of them who receive that degree, earned it. Not so very long ago, a RB who graduated from the school across the state and played in the NFL called out his school for letting him graduate illiterate...

 

[Crimsongator]

One thing to remember is that even with the "big boys," the outgoes often exceed the revenue. Year before last, I think there were only 13 schools in the black. It seems to me that, this past year, it may have climbed to something like 17. Bottom line, there are only a few programs turning a "profit." Bama is fortunate to make enough to give back to the academic programs, but we are very fortunate. There's just not as money to roll around in as it might appear from looking at gross revenues only.

Another misconception to dispel is that we have illiterates playing. We don't. Season before last, we were second only to Stanford in graduation rate. I'm not sure about last season, but we were very high. Now, are all these kids studying to be rocket scientists? Of course not. A lot of them end up with studies in general areas. (A lot of Stanford's football players do also.) However, it's a diploma, and that counts for a lot in getting a job later, if the NFL doesn't work out. I think that all of them who receive that degree, earned it. Not so very long ago, a RB who graduated from the school across the state and played in the NFL called out his school for letting him graduate illiterate...

Thanks Earle

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Sounds like the 'EXPANSION THREADS' will fire up again this summer.

Won't be surprised to see some of the better mid-major teams looking for a home with the big boys.
It sounds like a big Independent team we used for a door mat, will be looking to join a conference now. (Not ours)

 

[CrimsonPride25]

My question is can a school like, let's say Colorado, afford to pay every one of their athletes? As stated earlier, only a few schools even operate with a small profit as it stands now.

Are these changes only for football or for all athletes? That becomes a large number when you throw in all the other sports.

 

[bamaslaw]

Another thing that is worth mentioning is the EXTREME difference between the time commitments a student-athlete has vs. a regular student. For a regular student in say accounting or political science, the quality of the job they get out of college is almost solely dependent on a successful internship - I know the Big 4 accounting firm I worked for did 90% of their campus recruiting with internships. (Paid internships, btw)

How many of our players would be allowed to miss spring camp to go on their internship or co-op? Free college is free college and is very valuable, but let's not pretend that if football doesn't work out that they will be on equal footing in the job market with other grads from their major.