Offensive problems/observations (merged threads)

[bamaslammer]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

Its really a balancing act. If you look back to the scrimmage stats GMac has more long passes, but also threw a lot of interceptions. Thats because there is nothing to lose. In the games, he's played more conservative.

When the season started nobody was really thinking undefeated season, we were just like everyone else and had alot to prove. GMac was taking more chances and going deeper, but as the defense began to dominate and our running game gathered steam GMack was really needing to go deep less often

Now as we reached the meat of the SEC season the offense has slumped because they lost their edge. Managing the game is fine, and yes Barker did do that, but in this era of SEC football you won't win SEC championships without scoring points.

So basically GMac has got to strike a different balance going forward. We MUST score points, we won't keep everyone we play down. But of course if you turn the ball over your going to lose as well. Its easy for me to see, but hard for GMac to do. He's the quarterback, the leader of the offense, it all hinges on him.

 

[squeally dan]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I think you answered the question that I was trying to ask but didn't do a very good job.

Is our offense doing enough to get us to the end of this season undefeated or do we have to step it up a bit?

 

[BamaFlum]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

It's a combination of things: playcalling, Greg, the WR, and the OL. All four must be at least adequate or all four suffer. The only constant is our RB's. Greg missed some throws, the WR's dropped some passes, the OL missed some blocks, and the PC has been inconsistant.

This off week has come at a great time to address each of these. Greg looked better this past week and I look for him to continue to improve.

 

[cbi1972]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I think you answered the question that I was trying to ask but didn't do a very good job.

Is our offense doing enough to get us to the end of this season undefeated or do we have to step it up a bit?

I think Saban's said, maybe not this year, but after the Florida game last year, that it's necessary to take risk to get the reward. I would expect to see some more aggressive playcalling against LSU, but no one's said anything this year yet to make me think that.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

He's the quarterback, the leader of the offense, it all hinges on him.

I disagree with this part of your post. As has been said before the position comes with too much praise as well as too much blame. Over the last three weeks we've seen more dropped balls than over the first five games. For some reason we've also decided to throw the ball from the five yard line more than any other time in Alabama history. In the Ole Miss and SC games the protection was terrible and there was little time to make reads and throw. In the TN game the tight end was lost just before the game taking away a portion of the game plan. Greg has nothing to do with any of the variables I just listed. Does he have areas he needs to improve and correct? Heck yes, and I'm sure he's working his tail off to correct them. But to simply say he's the qb and it all hinges on him isn't fair or realistic. CNS has said multiple times the players around the qb need to elevate their game.

 

[TidefaninOS]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I think GMac played better in the TN game than he had in the previous 2 weeks - not outstanding, but certainly better. Like stated above, he can't do it all himself - he has to have help from the OL, receivers, and I think the overall playcallling has been fairly vanilla. I think CNS alluded to this somewhat when he mentioned yesterday that we had been "playing not to lose", instead of playing to win (not his exact words, probably). I think (hope) we will see our offense open up a lot more the rest of the season. RTR!

 

[CapitalTider]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

For some reason we've also decided to throw the ball from the five yard line more than any other time in Alabama history.

I wonder if all of those have been "called" pass plays and if any have been Greg checking to the Fade based on the defense. Spurrier calling the same play three times in a row doesn't really surprise me, it does surprise me for an Alabama OC.

To answer the question posed, I don't think FGs and the number of points we are currently scoring will be enough to beat LSU, Florida and whoever we would play in a NC game. We might get by LSU with it, but I am concerned. We would have to hope that the SEC defenses are really THAT much better than the rest of the country, and that our offense would move the ball easier. But that is not the impression that I get from Texas. The UT game shold be a lesson, that if our offense cannot sustain drives, even our defense will get tired and give up plays and points. I think the UT game also showed us that we miss Hightower a bit against a strong running team. I would expect LSU to try and exploit that and look at how successful Florida has been running the football.

 

[squeally dan]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

Seems like some are saying we need to "open the offense up" more while complaining that we tried to score in the redzone by passing instead of a more conservative run play. I would have rather seen them hammer it in w/ Ingram at that point. Maybe w/ Cody leading the way.

 

[Bama Reb]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I know this will probably anger some of you, but I think GMac is scared.
Sure, he was fine the first few OOC games because our OL was able to give him plenty of coverage. Plenty of us heaped praise on him for being not only a good qb, but also in taking over the reigns of this Tide team so readily. He did a great job for a first year starting qb. But it seems that ever since we got into the SEC schedule, he's found out just how fast the defenses are, and just how hard they can hit. In the first conference games against Arky and KY, he got hit pretty hard and wound up with his face in the dirt more than a couple of times. He's afraid of getting hurt and as a result he starts going through his reads too fast, not taking in possible receivers or his own chances for running it himself. He's either dumping the ball off too fast or throwing off target. IMO, his own interests of self-preservation are taking precedent over winning the game.
I think that's why Mark Ingram took over running an entire drive last week against USCe, and also why Mark led the Tide offense all the way down to the 2 yard line against TN before he handed it back off to GMac.
I'm not criticizing GMac, or suggesting replacing him, or anything else of that sort. That's foolishness, and I'm not going there.
I'm not even saying he shouldn't be concerned for his own safety. The only thing I am saying though is that any SEC qb who plays scared isn't going to lead his team to many victories, especially over what we all consider to be quality opponents.
On the positive side, I think he'll get better. Just like any fighter, he'll have to get knocked down a few times before he gets used to the hits. Once he gets past that, I think he'll prove to be an outstanding SEC QB.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I wonder if all of those have been "called" pass plays and if any have been Greg checking to the Fade based on the defense. Spurrier calling the same play three times in a row doesn't really surprise me, it does surprise me for an Alabama OC.

To answer the question posed, I don't think FGs and the number of points we are currently scoring will be enough to beat LSU, Florida and whoever we would play in a NC game. We might get by LSU with it, but I am concerned. We would have to hope that the SEC defenses are really THAT much better than the rest of the country, and that our offense would move the ball easier. But that is not the impression that I get from Texas. The UT game shold be a lesson, that if our offense cannot sustain drives, even our defense will get tired and give up plays and points. I think the UT game also showed us that we miss Hightower a bit against a strong running team. I would expect LSU to try and exploit that and look at how successful Florida has been running the football.

I would guess some have been checked into and some have been called. Again, if Greg is checking into a play that's what he has been taught to do. He's a smart kid, if x,y and z are in place he checks into the play, if not he runs what was called. Now if the coaches don't want him to check down inside the 5 or 10 they should tell him not to. I actually wouldn't be shocked if that's not the case against LSU inside the 10 until we get a few touchdowns under our belt and offensive confidence gain.

I think you're right on about the scoring. We can probably beat LSU playing about like we have the last three weeks, but Fla or a bowl opponent could be another story. Bottom line is we need some touchdowns. Even one TD against TN makes that game a snoozer. It's really funny if you think back a little. Under CGS the Ole Miss and SC games would have been considered blowouts.

As far a bowl opponents TX wouldn't worry me as much as some others because of how I saw them struggle against the OU defense. Also there is a lot of worry I hear in Austin about their ability to score against a top defense.

 

[trenda]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I think that's why Mark Ingram took over running an entire drive last week against USCe, and also why Mark led the Tide offense all the way down to the 2 yard line against TN before he handed it back off to GMac.

A 1-10 A32 ALABAMA drive start at 06:47.
A 1-10 A32 Greg McElroy sideline pass complete to Preston Dial for 4 yards to the
UA36, out-of-bounds.
A 2-6 A36 Mark Ingram rush over right tackle for 5 yards to the UA41 (Williams,
D.).
A 3-1 A41 Timeout Alabama, clock 05:29.
A 3-1 A41 Mark Ingram rush over right guard for 4 yards to the UA45, 1ST DOWN
UA (Williams, D.;Brown, W.).
A 1-10 A45 Mark Ingram rush over right tackle for 7 yards to the UT48 (Frazier,
S.;Walker, C.).
A 2-3 T48 Mark Ingram rush over left guard for 4 yards to the UT44, 1ST DOWN
UA (Berry, E.;McCoy, R.).
A 1-10 T44 Greg McElroy crossing pass complete to Darius Hanks for 5 yards to the
UT39 (Rogan, D.).
A 2-5 T39 Mark Ingram rush over left tackle for 4 yards to the UT35 (Rogan, D.).
A 3-1 T35 Greg McElroy crossing pass complete to Baron Huber for 4 yards to the
UT31, 1ST DOWN UA.
A 1-10 T31 Greg McElroy middle pass complete to Marquis Maze for 19 yards to the
UT12, 1ST DOWN UA (Jackson, J.).
A 1-10 T12 Mark Ingram rush over left end for 8 yards to the UT4, out-of-bounds
(Rogan, D.).
A 2-2 T04 Greg McElroy flag pass incomplete to Julio Jones (Rogan, D.).
A 3-2 T04 Greg McElroy FD pass incomplete to Julio Jones.
A 4-2 T04 Leigh Tiffin field goal attempt from 22 GOOD, clock 01:11.

McElroy was 4-4 for 32 yards on the drive before Ingram "handed it back off" to him.

I don't think GM's scared at all. IMO, I think there's some bad decision-making going on in the play-calling inside the 35 yard line --- whether it's McElwain or whether it's GM checking off --- not sure which it is. The guy completed 62% of his passes Saturday. His receivers didn't shake any tackles. Credit UT for sound tackling or blame our receivers for not breaking them; but GM took what the defense was giving him.

 

[trenda]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

he'll have to get knocked down a few times before he gets used to the hits. Once he gets past that, I think he'll prove to be an outstanding SEC QB.

He took a pretty vicious hit from Berry on the first series of the game and proceeded to complete 62% of his passes for the game. I think he can take a lick.

 

[GrayTide]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

Like most on here I am not sure why the offense is struggling, but I have my opinion. IMO the overall problem is still with the OL. The OL is not playing as well as it did against VT. McElroy is under pressure every time he attempts to pass and Ingram is having problems finding holes except when he is in the wildcat.

 

[Bamaboda1]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

Well, of course, we each have our own opinions, and I do believe we are a pretty knowledgeable fan base. So, I will offer mine, FWIW (subject to re-consideration often):

1. I believe there is a big difference in "playing not to lose" versus "playing to win". Saban has said that we must take risks to win games. That is what he means.
2. I believe in the competency of our coaching staff to put together the best possible game plan to help us win. That includes risk assessment to accomplish #1 above.
3. I do not believe that CJM has "forgotten" how to call the best plays, considering all the factors that must be considered. I look for him to continue to call them wisely, believing that he knows the team's capability to execute better than we.
4. I believe that Coach Saban is correct when he said "We played like we were tired." I see sloppy execution and mental mistakes, which have gotten progressively worse, since the second half of the Ol Miss game. We need a break!
5. I look for us to be rested and back on track against LSU!

ROLL TIDE!

 

[BamaBeta]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I don't think GM's scared at all. IMO, I think there's some bad decision-making going on in the play-calling inside the 35 yard line --- whether it's McElwain or whether it's GM checking off --- not sure which it is. The guy completed 62% of his passes Saturday. His receivers didn't shake any tackles. Credit UT for sound tackling or blame our receivers for not breaking them; but GM took what the defense was giving him.

I agree here to an extent. I have seen us try to "force the throw" to Julio inside the 20 too many times in the past 3 games, especially against Tenn and Ole Miss.

 

[BamaFlum]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

Well, of course, we each have our own opinions, and I do believe we are a pretty knowledgeable fan base. So, I will offer mine, FWIW (subject to re-consideration often):

1. I believe there is a big difference in "playing not to lose" versus "playing to win". Saban has said that we must take risks to win games. That is what he means.
2. I believe in the competency of our coaching staff to put together the best possible game plan to help us win. That includes risk assessment to accomplish #1 above.
3. I do not believe that CJM has "forgotten" how to call the best plays, considering all the factors that must be considered. I look for him to continue to call them wisely, believing that he knows the team's capability to execute better than we.
4. I believe that Coach Saban is correct when he said "We played like we were tired." I see sloppy execution and mental mistakes, which have gotten progressively worse, since the second half of the Ol Miss game. We need a break!
5. I look for us to be rested and back on track against LSU!

ROLL TIDE!

We are tired. 5 straight SEC games with no break. That will do it. When is the last time a team won 5 straight SEC games without a bye?

 

[UAME]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I know this will probably anger some of you, but I think GMac is scared.
Sure, he was fine the first few OOC games because our OL was able to give him plenty of coverage. Plenty of us heaped praise on him for being not only a good qb, but also in taking over the reigns of this Tide team so readily. He did a great job for a first year starting qb. But it seems that ever since we got into the SEC schedule, he's found out just how fast the defenses are, and just how hard they can hit. In the first conference games against Arky and KY, he got hit pretty hard and wound up with his face in the dirt more than a couple of times. He's afraid of getting hurt and as a result he starts going through his reads too fast, not taking in possible receivers or his own chances for running it himself. He's either dumping the ball off too fast or throwing off target. IMO, his own interests of self-preservation are taking precedent over winning the game.
I think that's why Mark Ingram took over running an entire drive last week against USCe, and also why Mark led the Tide offense all the way down to the 2 yard line against TN before he handed it back off to GMac.
I'm not criticizing GMac, or suggesting replacing him, or anything else of that sort. That's foolishness, and I'm not going there.
I'm not even saying he shouldn't be concerned for his own safety. The only thing I am saying though is that any SEC qb who plays scared isn't going to lead his team to many victories, especially over what we all consider to be quality opponents.
On the positive side, I think he'll get better. Just like any fighter, he'll have to get knocked down a few times before he gets used to the hits. Once he gets past that, I think he'll prove to be an outstanding SEC QB.

I'm not angry, but I don't think the evidence fully supports this position. I would agree that GMac has lost some of his poise. But, I think it's more likely that he is playing "scared" or (my choice of words) tentative of making a mistake / turnover. I think our collective wonder and amazement at GMac's early season efficiency was justified - in hindsight, he's probably not that good on an average. The external and self-imposed pressures of maintaining that level of play may have caught up with him.

I'm not sure I buy the idea that we reached a sudden point in the season where GMac was facing SEC defenses that blew his mind. I think VT was no slouch, and would certainly fall right into the mix of any SEC level defense like KY, OM, etc.

The main reason I don't think GMac is scared of getting hit is his reckless abandon when he decides to scramble. If he was scared of taking a hit, it seems he wouldn't take on defenders and make the cutbacks in traffic that he has been trying to pull off.

 

[trenda]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

I agree here to an extent. I have seen us try to "force the throw" to Julio inside the 20 too many times in the past 3 games, especially against Tenn and Ole Miss.

Totally agree on forcing the throw to Jones, which is why I stated that I'm not sure where it's coming from. We should try to force it in to Jones in the redzone --- just not two out of three plays (especially when he's double or triple covered). Once per trip, I'm buying that. But, to buy a phrase from Bobby Bowden, dadgum, you've got the ball on the four and your stud RB is averaging over 5 ypc ON THIS DRIVE, you've got to give him the ball at least once. That's the law of averages, son . . .

 

[BamaFlum]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

Our offense took VT by surprise. Now, defensive staffs have a lot of tape on it. Greg now must adjust to the SEC speed and a better defensive game by our opponents. We must now adjust.

 

[bayoutider]

Re: Questions about Gmac/offense.

We really have to look at what we do well and what we don't do as well. No team I know of does everything well. We play defense well, we run the ball well, our kicker is ranked #2 in the nation and we dont turn the ball over. Javi is a threat to take it to the house anytime he touches the ball and i have more trust in this staff than any other since Stallings. Most of our complaints come against a couple of things we could use improvement in while other teams have a grocery list of problems. Im not trying to sugar coat our problems just point out that we arent a bad team, bad teams aren't ranked #2 in the nation.

Can LSU beat us? Absolutely, so can Auburn, Miss. St. and Florida should we play them in the SECCG. We can also win all these games and will probably be favored to win all of them except Florida and may be favored there too. We can lose a game and we can win all our games so till we lose one we are undefeated and I like the sound of it.