Link: Official PSU Scandal Thread
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Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
as i alluded to on page 1 I am really shocked it took Sandusky's arrest to finally make this a story well above and beyond Miami and Ohio State. The "finebaum" on Pittsburgh, Mark Madden, wrote an article about this 7 months ago...nobody seemed to care :conf2:
[h=1]Madden: Sandusky a State secret[/h]Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 11:55 pm | Updated: 4:34 pm, Mon Apr 4, 2011.
as i alluded to on page 1 I am really shocked it took Sandusky's arrest to finally make this a story well above and beyond Miami and Ohio State. The "finebaum" on Pittsburgh, Mark Madden, wrote an article about this 7 months ago...nobody seemed to care :conf2:
[h=1]Madden: Sandusky a State secret[/h]Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 11:55 pm | Updated: 4:34 pm, Mon Apr 4, 2011.
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[h=3]Happy Valley[/h]Jerry Sandusky and Joe Paterno during better days.
Posted: sunday, april 3, 2011 11:55 pm | updated: 4:34 pm, mon apr 4, 2011.mark madden | 3 commentsthe jerry sandusky situation seems a matter of failure to connect certain dots, or perhaps unwillingness in that regard. lots of people besides the former penn state defensive coordinator have some explaining to do.
allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while sandusky was still employed by penn state. that incident allegedly occurred in a shower at penn state's on-campus football facility. no charges were filed.
sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. he was 55, prime age for a coach. odd, to say the least - especially with joe paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.
it seems logical to ask: what did paterno know, and when did he know it? what did penn state's administration know, and when did they know it?
best-case scenario: charges are never brought, and sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. the rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. paterno and penn state do the great escape.
worst-case scenario: sandusky is charged. then it seems reasonable to wonder: did penn state not make an issue of sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? did penn state's considerable influence help get sandusky off the hook?
don't kid yourself. that could happen. don't underestimate the power of paterno and penn state in central pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.
in 1999, penn state was rid of sandusky. his rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. to be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.
if paterno and penn state knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating sandusky's untroubled retirement - are paterno and penn state responsible for untoward acts since committed by sandusky?
this is far from an outrageous hypothesis, especially given the convenient timeline.
initially accused in 1998. retires in 1999. never coaches college football again. sandusky was very successful at what he did. the architect of linebacker u. helped win national championships in 1982 and 1986. recognized as college football's top assistant in 1986 and 1999.
never any stories about sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.
But there's no shortage of stories and rumors about Penn State football sweeping problems under the rug, is there?
Why did college football let an accomplished coach like Sandusky walk away at 55? Why did he disappear into relative anonymity?
A grand jury, spurred by a complaint made by a 15-year-old boy in 2009, has been investigating Sandusky for 18 months. Witnesses include Paterno and Penn State athletic director Tim Curley. Interviewing Paterno about a subject like this had to have been one of the single most uncomfortable acts in the history of jurisprudence.
Plenty of questions remain yet unanswered. Potentially among them: What's more important, Penn State football or the welfare of a few kids?
You might not want to hear the answer.
Mark Madden hosts a radio show 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WXDX-FM (105.9).
© 2011 Timesonline.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
AP[h=3]Happy Valley[/h]Jerry Sandusky and Joe Paterno during better days.
Posted: sunday, april 3, 2011 11:55 pm | updated: 4:34 pm, mon apr 4, 2011.mark madden | 3 commentsthe jerry sandusky situation seems a matter of failure to connect certain dots, or perhaps unwillingness in that regard. lots of people besides the former penn state defensive coordinator have some explaining to do.
allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while sandusky was still employed by penn state. that incident allegedly occurred in a shower at penn state's on-campus football facility. no charges were filed.
sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. he was 55, prime age for a coach. odd, to say the least - especially with joe paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.
it seems logical to ask: what did paterno know, and when did he know it? what did penn state's administration know, and when did they know it?
best-case scenario: charges are never brought, and sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. the rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. paterno and penn state do the great escape.
worst-case scenario: sandusky is charged. then it seems reasonable to wonder: did penn state not make an issue of sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? did penn state's considerable influence help get sandusky off the hook?
don't kid yourself. that could happen. don't underestimate the power of paterno and penn state in central pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.
in 1999, penn state was rid of sandusky. his rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. to be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.
if paterno and penn state knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating sandusky's untroubled retirement - are paterno and penn state responsible for untoward acts since committed by sandusky?
this is far from an outrageous hypothesis, especially given the convenient timeline.
initially accused in 1998. retires in 1999. never coaches college football again. sandusky was very successful at what he did. the architect of linebacker u. helped win national championships in 1982 and 1986. recognized as college football's top assistant in 1986 and 1999.
never any stories about sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.
But there's no shortage of stories and rumors about Penn State football sweeping problems under the rug, is there?
Why did college football let an accomplished coach like Sandusky walk away at 55? Why did he disappear into relative anonymity?
A grand jury, spurred by a complaint made by a 15-year-old boy in 2009, has been investigating Sandusky for 18 months. Witnesses include Paterno and Penn State athletic director Tim Curley. Interviewing Paterno about a subject like this had to have been one of the single most uncomfortable acts in the history of jurisprudence.
Plenty of questions remain yet unanswered. Potentially among them: What's more important, Penn State football or the welfare of a few kids?
You might not want to hear the answer.
Mark Madden hosts a radio show 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WXDX-FM (105.9).
© 2011 Timesonline.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
The act here says "duly constituted authority," which has held to be law enforcement, who are then to call in DHR. I am counsel (and founder) for a 501(c)(3) with an annual gross of around 35 million which employs hundreds of people. We wouldn't think of trying to keep quiet anything like this in house. It has to go outside to the District Attorney. When it comes to witnessing a crime being committed, I don't think merely reporting it to a boss removes the responsibility. Regardless of the legalities, it certainly doesn't remove the moral responsibility...
True. The thing is here that it goes straight to the BIA and then they conduct the investigation. The thing that bothers me is that you remain anonymous unless you are needed to testify.
DiamondDust
Hall of Fame
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
Calling Mark Madden the Finebaum of Pittsburgh is a slap in the face to Finebaum (If you couldn't tell, I despise Mark Madden)... however... it's sad he published this well in advance of all that's happening now.
as i alluded to on page 1 I am really shocked it took Sandusky's arrest to finally make this a story well above and beyond Miami and Ohio State. The "finebaum" on Pittsburgh, Mark Madden, wrote an article about this 7 months ago...nobody seemed to care :conf2:
[h=1]Madden: Sandusky a State secret[/h]Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 11:55 pm | Updated: 4:34 pm, Mon Apr 4, 2011.Share
[h=3]Happy Valley[/h]Jerry Sandusky and Joe Paterno during better days.
Posted: sunday, april 3, 2011 11:55 pm | updated: 4:34 pm, mon apr 4, 2011.mark madden | 3 commentsthe jerry sandusky situation seems a matter of failure to connect certain dots, or perhaps unwillingness in that regard. lots of people besides the former penn state defensive coordinator have some explaining to do.
allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while sandusky was still employed by penn state. that incident allegedly occurred in a shower at penn state's on-campus football facility. no charges were filed.
sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. he was 55, prime age for a coach. odd, to say the least - especially with joe paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.
it seems logical to ask: what did paterno know, and when did he know it? what did penn state's administration know, and when did they know it?
best-case scenario: charges are never brought, and sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. the rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. paterno and penn state do the great escape.
worst-case scenario: sandusky is charged. then it seems reasonable to wonder: did penn state not make an issue of sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? did penn state's considerable influence help get sandusky off the hook?
don't kid yourself. that could happen. don't underestimate the power of paterno and penn state in central pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.
in 1999, penn state was rid of sandusky. his rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. to be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.
if paterno and penn state knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating sandusky's untroubled retirement - are paterno and penn state responsible for untoward acts since committed by sandusky?
this is far from an outrageous hypothesis, especially given the convenient timeline.
initially accused in 1998. retires in 1999. never coaches college football again. sandusky was very successful at what he did. the architect of linebacker u. helped win national championships in 1982 and 1986. recognized as college football's top assistant in 1986 and 1999.
never any stories about sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.
But there's no shortage of stories and rumors about Penn State football sweeping problems under the rug, is there?
Why did college football let an accomplished coach like Sandusky walk away at 55? Why did he disappear into relative anonymity?
A grand jury, spurred by a complaint made by a 15-year-old boy in 2009, has been investigating Sandusky for 18 months. Witnesses include Paterno and Penn State athletic director Tim Curley. Interviewing Paterno about a subject like this had to have been one of the single most uncomfortable acts in the history of jurisprudence.
Plenty of questions remain yet unanswered. Potentially among them: What's more important, Penn State football or the welfare of a few kids?
You might not want to hear the answer.
Mark Madden hosts a radio show 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WXDX-FM (105.9).
© 2011 Timesonline.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Calling Mark Madden the Finebaum of Pittsburgh is a slap in the face to Finebaum (If you couldn't tell, I despise Mark Madden)... however... it's sad he published this well in advance of all that's happening now.
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
Referencing my post you replied to, our CEO send out an email reminding all of their responsibilities in this kind of situation. I understand what you're saying about the "anonymous" part...
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
they had a confession from Sandusky in 1998!!! wow, just wow!!!!!
they had a confession from Sandusky in 1998!!! wow, just wow!!!!!
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
so is it true that they really did cover this up and only let it get out once joe pa got the record for most victories?
so is it true that they really did cover this up and only let it get out once joe pa got the record for most victories?
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7208029/penn-state-joe-paterno-failure-power
http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7208029/penn-state-joe-paterno-failure-power
I'm a teacher here in AL, and every year we have workshops from DHR that remind us of our duty to report "suspected" child abuse. This includes our own suspicions because of a child's injuries or social issues as well as rumors. We are allowed to report to DHR or the police department, but we are required to report and we do remain anonymous (and we are immune to civil action for reporting suspected abuse if our anonymity is compromised).
I actually had a situation where I heard of a student of mine being abused in a local restaurant (at the time it was occurring). The mother chased the student into a bathroom, started beating the student in the face until she bled, then when the student fled to a bathroom stall, the mother tried to pound the stall door down. I called the police and told the principal. The next day, the mother came to the school wanting to know why "that teacher called the police to her place of employment when she was trying to discipline her child." I likely saved my job and the principal's job, because it would have come out that a student had called me to let me know what was going on and that I did not report the incident to authorities. There is more to the story regarding some disagreement over how I handled the situation, but I'm not going to put that out here on the open board. Regardless, in the end, I handled it the right way according to my values and according to the law.
From what I've read on PSU's Scout board, Pennsylvania has a similar mandatory reporting law. Paterno did not report to the authorities...period. There is some kind of nonsense about Schultz overseeing the campus police, but I can't report suspicions of child abuse to the mayor and meet my legally required duty.
I have another very personal story related to this that Staci knows about, and I've referred to it on the board in the past though not in great detail. Reporting that was a very difficult thing to do...but it was necessary, both morally and legally.
I actually had a situation where I heard of a student of mine being abused in a local restaurant (at the time it was occurring). The mother chased the student into a bathroom, started beating the student in the face until she bled, then when the student fled to a bathroom stall, the mother tried to pound the stall door down. I called the police and told the principal. The next day, the mother came to the school wanting to know why "that teacher called the police to her place of employment when she was trying to discipline her child." I likely saved my job and the principal's job, because it would have come out that a student had called me to let me know what was going on and that I did not report the incident to authorities. There is more to the story regarding some disagreement over how I handled the situation, but I'm not going to put that out here on the open board. Regardless, in the end, I handled it the right way according to my values and according to the law.
From what I've read on PSU's Scout board, Pennsylvania has a similar mandatory reporting law. Paterno did not report to the authorities...period. There is some kind of nonsense about Schultz overseeing the campus police, but I can't report suspicions of child abuse to the mayor and meet my legally required duty.
I have another very personal story related to this that Staci knows about, and I've referred to it on the board in the past though not in great detail. Reporting that was a very difficult thing to do...but it was necessary, both morally and legally.
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
Someone needs to check their names against the membership rolls of NAMBLA.
Someone needs to check their names against the membership rolls of NAMBLA.
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
True, but if you saw someone doing something like what McQueary saw and you reported it to your administrator, wouldn't you find it suspicious if that person were still working there a month, 2 months, 6 months, a year later? And not only that, but even after they retired they hadn't been sent to jail. And not only that, they still had unfettered access to the football complex as well as kids in his charity? It's been 13 years since the first incident took place and Sandusky is just now getting processed through the legal system. Paterno and McQueary (among others) failed miserably at making sure this scumbag was taken off the streets.
I get doing what is required, telling your superiors, but something like this requires more than that. After you've reported it, you've got to do your due diligence in making sure it never happens again. If you saw what McQueary saw, how do you just go about your business knowing that there is a predator lurking the halls?
True, but if you saw someone doing something like what McQueary saw and you reported it to your administrator, wouldn't you find it suspicious if that person were still working there a month, 2 months, 6 months, a year later? And not only that, but even after they retired they hadn't been sent to jail. And not only that, they still had unfettered access to the football complex as well as kids in his charity? It's been 13 years since the first incident took place and Sandusky is just now getting processed through the legal system. Paterno and McQueary (among others) failed miserably at making sure this scumbag was taken off the streets.
I get doing what is required, telling your superiors, but something like this requires more than that. After you've reported it, you've got to do your due diligence in making sure it never happens again. If you saw what McQueary saw, how do you just go about your business knowing that there is a predator lurking the halls?
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
no, i think it was just a really strange coincidence. the evidence and testimonies were being heard for 2 years and the state wasn't going to make a move on Sandusky until all the i's were dotted and t's crossed. No idea what they learned between april and november that was of consequence but i don't think they conspired with joe pa to allow him to capture 409 before bringing the axe down. I think it really just took the better part of 5 months to get those 23 pages written in an air-tight package.
what's maybe more depressing is that a huge throng of 18-24 year olds gathered in mass in front of Joe Pa's house last night to support the fossil. these students are exactly in the same age range of the kids that were molested from 1998-2002 and are supporting an old man that wouldn't have helped a single one of them if they caught sandusky's eye.
no, i think it was just a really strange coincidence. the evidence and testimonies were being heard for 2 years and the state wasn't going to make a move on Sandusky until all the i's were dotted and t's crossed. No idea what they learned between april and november that was of consequence but i don't think they conspired with joe pa to allow him to capture 409 before bringing the axe down. I think it really just took the better part of 5 months to get those 23 pages written in an air-tight package.
what's maybe more depressing is that a huge throng of 18-24 year olds gathered in mass in front of Joe Pa's house last night to support the fossil. these students are exactly in the same age range of the kids that were molested from 1998-2002 and are supporting an old man that wouldn't have helped a single one of them if they caught sandusky's eye.
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
Cowards hiding behind protocol?
Easy to pass the buck and absolve responsibility when one hides behind institutional walls.
PSU administration is sick to the core. JoePa led the parade.
It took high school officials to finally blow the whistle on the evil machinations from the fortress on the hill.
This whole affair is disgusting.
Cowards hiding behind protocol?
Easy to pass the buck and absolve responsibility when one hides behind institutional walls.
PSU administration is sick to the core. JoePa led the parade.
It took high school officials to finally blow the whistle on the evil machinations from the fortress on the hill.
This whole affair is disgusting.
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
My main outrage right now is with the statement of the current school President, Graham Spanier. This is was he said on Saturday:
The allegations about a former coach are troubling, and it is appropriate that they be investigated thoroughly. Protecting children requires the utmost vigilance.
With regard to the other presentments, I wish to say that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz have my unconditional support. I have known and worked daily with Tim and Gary for more than 16 years. I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former University employee.
Tim Curley and Gary Schultz operate at the highest levels of honesty, integrity and compassion. I am confident the record will show that these charges are groundless and that they conducted themselves professionally and appropriately.
He should have been sent packing on Monday!
My main outrage right now is with the statement of the current school President, Graham Spanier. This is was he said on Saturday:
The allegations about a former coach are troubling, and it is appropriate that they be investigated thoroughly. Protecting children requires the utmost vigilance.
With regard to the other presentments, I wish to say that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz have my unconditional support. I have known and worked daily with Tim and Gary for more than 16 years. I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former University employee.
Tim Curley and Gary Schultz operate at the highest levels of honesty, integrity and compassion. I am confident the record will show that these charges are groundless and that they conducted themselves professionally and appropriately.
He should have been sent packing on Monday!
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
Ironic how, talking with Lion fans, we all agreed that JoePa would either leave the program in a box or whenever he felt like it. However, option 3 appears to be, forced out in disgrace. How very sad.
Ironic how, talking with Lion fans, we all agreed that JoePa would either leave the program in a box or whenever he felt like it. However, option 3 appears to be, forced out in disgrace. How very sad.
Re: Former Penn St. DC Jerry Sandusky arrested for numerous sexual assaults of minors
A business-as-usual approach will not work on this one. They have to clean house.
It sounds as if even the president needs to be replaced.
A business-as-usual approach will not work on this one. They have to clean house.
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
Probably because the high school officials knew what they were required to do, AND they knew they didn't have "untouchable" status like Joe Pa and his fellow conspirators believed they had acquired.
This whole, "he may have absolved himself by telling his boss but he still had a moral responsibility," take on things is accurate for Pennsylvania. According to PA law, he the person "in charge of the institution" assumed the responsibility once he told them of the incident.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter42/s42.42.html
Still...what person in his right mind allows this to be covered up WHILE children are continuing to be harmed??
Probably because the high school officials knew what they were required to do, AND they knew they didn't have "untouchable" status like Joe Pa and his fellow conspirators believed they had acquired.
This whole, "he may have absolved himself by telling his boss but he still had a moral responsibility," take on things is accurate for Pennsylvania. According to PA law, he the person "in charge of the institution" assumed the responsibility once he told them of the incident.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter42/s42.42.html
Still...what person in his right mind allows this to be covered up WHILE children are continuing to be harmed??
Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
I am torn on this. I've tried to put myself in JoePa's shoes. How close do you think he was to this guy he coached as a player and coached with for 3 or 4 decades? I try to think if these allegations came up about a friend of mine. I would be very close to the situation. Maybe Joe felt to be fair he should let someone else deal with it. Then they come to him saying they find no wrong doing. Maybe Joe even talked to him and he denied or even came up with some sort of excuse (I'm not buying it but... remember this is a very close friend). So, his upper management has cleared his friend of wrong doing, but he is still suppose to turn him in for something he doesn't know to be true. What if he did that and it wasn't true??? He would have lost one of his closest friends. Maybe he just felt too close to the situation and thought someone else could better rectify the situation. Obviously he made the wrong choice, but playing devils advocate here.... Put yourself in his shoes and it was someone very, very close to you. BTW... why didn't the guy (who happens to still be at PSU) that originally reported this to Joe go to the cops???
I am torn on this. I've tried to put myself in JoePa's shoes. How close do you think he was to this guy he coached as a player and coached with for 3 or 4 decades? I try to think if these allegations came up about a friend of mine. I would be very close to the situation. Maybe Joe felt to be fair he should let someone else deal with it. Then they come to him saying they find no wrong doing. Maybe Joe even talked to him and he denied or even came up with some sort of excuse (I'm not buying it but... remember this is a very close friend). So, his upper management has cleared his friend of wrong doing, but he is still suppose to turn him in for something he doesn't know to be true. What if he did that and it wasn't true??? He would have lost one of his closest friends. Maybe he just felt too close to the situation and thought someone else could better rectify the situation. Obviously he made the wrong choice, but playing devils advocate here.... Put yourself in his shoes and it was someone very, very close to you. BTW... why didn't the guy (who happens to still be at PSU) that originally reported this to Joe go to the cops???
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Re: Penn State Officials Reportedly Planning Paterno's Exit
Because Mike McQueary is a cowardly scumbag, too.
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