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OK folks, let's discuss Coach Moore

You are right!! I don't know you. That's my point. In the anonimity of this board, you can say and be anything you wish. You may be all you claim to be. But when you cite accomplishments to make someone else look bad, you sound like a politician and make your motives suspect. I'm not going to form or change my opinion of someone based on an anonymous poster's comments.

My mother told me many years ago, "You never make yourself look good by trying to make someone else look bad."

And by-the-way , I didn't name anyone in my post, sooooo.......

So, you would have to reason that you're logic works BOTH ways, correct? Your motives become suspect to me. Before anyone, including me, pops off at the mouth about anyone on a board, we should all remember that the topic was brought up and many posters including myself, replied with an opinion about the topic. If the topic of 'oldmanbamafan' were to come up, I would post nothing as I don't have an opinion. Sorry if I have an opinion on CMM. You know what you are right you didn't mention anyone in your post...so what? You didn't say that because there really isn't any scathing post of MM on here, that I've read. Popping off at the 'mouth' comes to my mind. I agree with PlayerUA's post and assesment. I have to, he's down there. I read and watch the news and wonder what in the world is going on at Bama. Then I come on here and there are three forms of posts. Yours which says everything is fine and anyone who says anything 'derogatory' about anything Bama is wrong. Then there are the 'world is falling' posters who see everything is wrong and everyone should be fired. Then there are PlayerUA's type posts, those who know what is going on (apparently) and post an honest assesment. My resposes TRY to be along the lines of PlayerUA's. We don't need opinion police on this board, unless the moderators deem something innappropriate. Let's try to act our age, oldman.
 
Looks like we're getting bent out of shape over something we have no control over.

As art Linkletter says....people are funny..
some say Mal is too old, "we need young blood then thats followed by lets bring in Ozzie"

If Mal is too old at 63, then Ozzie isn't too much younger, is he?

I don't think every one will be pleased no matter who, or who will be the AD.

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"Doctors bury their mistake, I have to feed mine 4 years!"......Bear bryant
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bowens:
I agree with PlayerUA's post and assesment. I have to, he's down there. I read and watch the news and wonder what in the world is going on at Bama. Then I come on here and there are three forms of posts. Yours which says everything is fine and anyone who says anything 'derogatory' about anything Bama is wrong. Then there are the 'world is falling' posters who see everything is wrong and everyone should be fired. ...We don't need opinion police on this board, unless the moderators deem something innappropriate. </font>
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Bingo, that was a good 'un.
 
I printed the post by playerua and mailed it too Dr. Whitt, so I know he will at least have it in his office. The Athletic Dept has a bunch of smart asses answering the phones and very few times I have called have they been able to answer my questions.
I for one feel its time to clean house.
Roll Tide.
 
Albertville, I hope you spelled his name right when you addressed your letter.
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Two things I want to interject...just to give you guys something to chew on.

More so than the majority of AD's in the NCAA, Moore cares for the Alabama athlete and what's best for them while they are in school and their post athletic careers. Be thankful for that.

Secondly, there was a lot of praise for the Jr.'s and Sr.'s who didn't leave the program when the sanctions were announced. When fRan left, there was still a constant presence around those players. In both of these situations, there is one common theme/person.
 
On an admistrative note:

I've pruned a half a dozen or so replies out of this thread. Let's keep it civil, folks. This was started to discuss the AD situation, not to start throwing jabs at each other.

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Terry Pellman
Administrator
Tidefans.com
mailto:TerryP@Tidefans.comTerryP@Tidefans.com</A>
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TerryP:
More so than the majority of AD's in the NCAA, Moore cares for the Alabama athlete and what's best for them while they are in school and their post athletic careers. Be thankful for that.

Secondly, there was a lot of praise for the Jr.'s and Sr.'s who didn't leave the program when the sanctions were announced. When fRan left, there was still a constant presence around those players. In both of these situations, there is one common theme/person. </font>
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Do those examples make him a nice man who loves his Alma Mater or do they make him a strong business leader?

I still think many are letting who Mal Moore is define their opinions much more than what Mal Moore does.
 
my question to the people is why can't we just let him decide rather or not its time for him to go if u think for one minute that we could get someone better than u need to look around at other schools and see what they have to offer! I Think that this has always been a problem for fans everywhere when someone gets old like mal moore we tend to think he's all used up i think that we say out with the old and in with the new.my thing is mal has done a great job i don't know of anyother like him.
 
Sounds to me like the problems we have within the Athletic Department would take a while to get rectified.

Perfect opportunity for Mal Moore to go out on a positive note. What a tribute it would be to him if he retired in a couple of years with the facilities upgraded, an AD operating in the black, great coaches in place, fund raising at record levels, attendance at record levels, NCAA problems behind us, a fantastic new operating plan in place (in which fans were satisfied with customer service and PR levels), and all programs winning.

Mal is the man at the top. It all trickles down from there.

His legacy is in place as a player and coach. Now it is his turn to make/earn it as AD. Currently, he's in quite a bit of a hole. Hopefully, he has the right stuff to work his way out.

RTR
 
...thus thinking CMMs hands are tied. Kinda hard to make any firm decisions or take a bold stand when youre just a PR guy. It wouldnt make alot of difference who the AD is....

BINGO, CrimsonTusk.

Here's this old timer's observation: Politics and money, EVERYTHING is bsically politics and money.

I suggest that what Coach Moore is and has been doing for Alabama in this environment will probably turn out to have been head and shoulders above what any young, savvy, capable replacement will know how to do.

Remember how Perkins made everybody mad and just couldn't do anything right when he took over at Alabama after Coach Bryant stepped down?

I think maybe Croom has more sense than to jump into that mess, whether he technically qualifies to be our AD or not. The man who replaces Coach Moore is going to be in for a pretty rough ride, I'm thinking...And I don't mean out here on the Internet, where the Prime Time Players are not.
 
I've pruned a half a dozen or so replies out of this thread. Let's keep it civil, folks. This was started to discuss the AD situation, not to start throwing jabs at each other.


Sorry Terry. Won't happen from me again. <--famous last words.
 
There are a few things I find quite ironic in these discussions.

For one, anyone who sits on either side of this issue agrees with one constant point. Coach Moore is a good person. He truely loves both the University and the athletes his department represents.

But, here is where the quandry comes to play. One says "he's a good person and loves the University" but at the same time they say "he doesn't do what's best for the University."

An old adage comes to mind. A person does what he is. It makes this whole discussion fly in the face of logic, doesn't it?

As example, we've seen the type of person fRan is, haven't we? Did he do/act in the same manner as his character? Yes.

While it seems to be a *fall back* arguement that those in favor of Moore like him because of who he is and what's he has done for the University and in the same voice these same people say "those feelings cloud others judgements," I see case examples of personal feelings outweighing logical thought.

That being said....

Since Moore is in charge of a 40+ million dollar corporation and that corporation just suffered a 6+ million dollar loss due to an overhanded oversight committee what would a good move be?

Perhaps adding a few million into the Athletic Budget over the next few years? Done. Case example, Utah State.

Did Bockrath handle the DuBose situation correctly? That in itself isn't a question I feel I need to answer. BUT, when Moore realized that DuBose couldn't handle the responsibilities of HC what did he do?

Many fault Moore with the decision to hire Price without taking into consideration the references Price provided would give him a good standing within the community. Yet, Moore is faulted with the Price hire. There is always two sides to every story and if you think Moore has been the only AD deceived by a perspective coach you need only to read the headlines to realize who wrong you are.

What is missing in most minds is the absence of personal feelings. Very few know the situation he inherited. But if you want a clue just consider Bockrath and Sorenson. Both have had their hands in our problems more so than Coach Moore ever has.

This thread is slowly coming to a rest and will soon be closed. I hope that those who seem to have doubts as to the veracity of our current administration realize that Moore doesn't have control of all things. To place the blame at his feet is a prime example of the Biblical term "scapegoat."

Granted, I know Coach Moore personally and I honestly can say I understand what his desires are for the University. We would and should all be pleased.

For just a second...take the penny out from in front of your eye and take a look at the dollar bill behind it. Many are missing the big picture.
 
Finding flaws after the facts are useless, I think its clear we need a strong leader to take us back to the top. We can get rid of moore if we want to but that would only be good if someone who loved the university as much as he did and had better qualifications were already waiting for the job.

In other words, Unless Ozzie wants the job, We should just let moore finish what he started.
 
Thank you PlayerUA for one of the most insightful posts I have seen in a while. I have a few questions and additional observations:

1. Everyone talks about the deadwood in the department. Many agree that these individuals constitute the core of the problems. But in PlayerUA's post and everywhere else, these individuals are never named. Why is that? As second tier employees ,are they immune from criticism? Or are they and their backers so powerful that their names cannot be mentioned? After all, carefully identifying the problem is the first step towards fixing it.

2. The core conclusion that I draw from these posts is that Moore is a very amiable person and a good fund raiser. He is also very loyal to the program. But he is apparently a bad administrator. Most people NEED to be held accountable for their actions and performance, or they will not perform. It takes someone with a lot of self disipline to do his best when there is no pressure to do so. Most people will slack off. And many, if not called to account for poor performance or inappropriate behavior will take home the lesson that they can get away with whatever they are doing and continue to perform and behave poorly. A good administrator sets goals and performance standards for his employees and quickly addresses deficiencies in an honest and dispassionate manner as soon as they are noted. This is uncomfortable to do, especially for an individual for whom being liked is important. But if this is not done, chaos ensues. I would guess that this is at the heart of the administrative problems at the AD.

3. Ozzie lacking a master's degree would not be a problem. I am sure that if Ozzie wanted the job, UA could arrange for him to recieve an honorary master's or doctorate, citing his previous accomplishments and on the job training.

4. What is Mal short for anyway? Malvin?
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TRU:
Thank you PlayerUA for one of the most insightful posts I have seen in a while. I have a few questions and additional observations:</font>
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No offense to Trent with his post. He did spend some time and thought into the matter. BUT, he has his own track record with Coach Moore.

Right or wrong, the way the AD handles matters with a student body that you can volunteer for, pay your dues, and become a member of, should not dictate the direction of the Athletic Department.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">1. Everyone talks about the deadwood in the department. Many agree that these individuals constitute the core of the problems. But in PlayerUA's post and everywhere else, these individuals are never named. Why is that? As second tier employees ,are they immune from criticism? Or are they and their backers so powerful that their names cannot be mentioned? After all, carefully identifying the problem is the first step towards fixing it.</font>
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You've been very quick to criticize various functions of the Athletic Department in your time here. Now you want names?

There are aspects of the Athletic Department that need changing, granted. Here's where the problem lies.

Out of one side of the mouth we want things to return to the way Coach Bryant handled them. Out of the other side, we say it's time to change.

What needs changing is the attitude of the Alabama fan base.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2. The core conclusion that I draw from these posts is that Moore is a very amiable person and a good fund raiser. He is also very loyal to the program. But he is apparently a bad administrator. Most people NEED to be held accountable for their actions and performance, or they will not perform. It takes someone with a lot of self disipline to do his best when there is no pressure to do so. Most people will slack off. And many, if not called to account for poor performance or inappropriate behavior will take home the lesson that they can get away with whatever they are doing and continue to perform and behave poorly. A good administrator sets goals and performance standards for his employees and quickly addresses deficiencies in an honest and dispassionate manner as soon as they are noted. This is uncomfortable to do, especially for an individual for whom being liked is important. But if this is not done, chaos ensues. I would guess that this is at the heart of the administrative problems at the AD.</font>
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These things are being addressed. It just so happens that the *fan* isn't being told how/when/why etc.

You know what? No offense intended...but the ones contributing to the program know of the improvements.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">3. Ozzie lacking a master's degree would not be a problem. I am sure that if Ozzie wanted the job, UA could arrange for him to recieve an honorary master's or doctorate, citing his previous accomplishments and on the job training. </font>
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It's my understanding he's a few hours short. But, therein lies the crux of the matter. It's not about who is in the future. It's about getting behind who is doing something now.

I hate to say it...but I'm being forced into this frame of mind.

Player, he deserves his opinion. Graduate.

Booster. Same scenario.

Average hack on the internet?
 
Don't get me wrong. There are some people I question also.

But, are any of us in the *know*?
 
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

Martin Luther King Jr.
 
Thanks for the reply. But seriously, what is Mal short for? It is a very unusual name, one that I have never heard before. It must be a contraction or nickname for something. Maybe Malvern, after the Civil War battle of Malvern Hill? (a Confederate Victory, if I remember correctly).

[This message has been edited by TRU (edited 04-19-2004).]
 
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