OL - Zone Blocking Question....

[coUrAgeWins]

Here's an excerpt from FootballGuys.com which I suscribe to for my NFL Fantasy Football stuff. Hopefully, I have given the right amount of credit here so the mods won't delete post.

So is the scheme that GB is trying to employ below the same thing that CBC is trying to do with our OL?

GB - New Zone-Blocking Scheme Limits Negative Yardage

Source: Bob McGinn, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Saturday, the #1 offense for the Packers gained 22 rushing yards on 8 carries against the #2 defense. It was the first legitimate look at the Packers new zone style running attack. Gone are the days of pulling linemen, toss plays and misdirection. The new OC Jeff Jagodzinski, favors stretch play after stretch play after stretch play which according to Jagodzinski, limits the number of carries that result in lost yardage. Despite the struggles in the early going, the No. 1 offense never had a negative carry.

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ OUR VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

It's been interesting to watch the Packers make such a big change in their offense. Although 22 yards on 8 carries will have folks calling for the old system. It's early. And there's a long ways to go here on the learning curve. You can bet we'll be watching for you.

 

[rgw]

So is the scheme that GB is trying to employ below the same thing that CBC is trying to do with our OL?

Hopefully - for Farve's sake - more like the zone scheme that Denver uses that allows them to plugin any guy with two working legs at RB and still have a deadly running attack and the one the Atlanta has used to be in the top five rushing the past two seasons. Maybe even be the Colts and their patented zone stretch play. Hopefully it just won't have the results CBC's scheme has had the first three years here.

 

[bamanut_aj]

If GB is running the same crap that we run, then someone needs to get a message to Favre ASAP and tell him to hang up his cleats now before he gets killed.

 

[12_4thetide]

If GB is running the same crap that we run, then someone needs to get a message to Favre ASAP and tell him to hang up his cleats now before he gets killed.

Well said!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Here's an excerpt from FootballGuys.com which I suscribe to for my NFL Fantasy Football stuff. Hopefully, I have given the right amount of credit here so the mods won't delete post.

So is the scheme that GB is trying to employ below the same thing that CBC is trying to do with our OL?

I might be wrong but I think the "Zone Blocking" technique used by GB is the same one being used by Denver & Atlanta Falcons. If so it isn't the same as what CBC is teaching.

I believe the zone blocking tech. used by the above still implements forward movement by the OL and not reactive ("bucket step") movement. I might be totally wrong but I read on a packers board a few months ago a not so detailed description of this new blocking scheme. From my interpretation of it the linemen aren't assigned a "man" to block but an area and anyone in that "area" is "your man". But the OL still tries to have forward movement/push. I didn't read where there was any "hinge" type movement going on as is in our technique.

 

[TRU]

"I believe the zone blocking tech. used by the above still implements forward movement by the OL and not reactive ("bucket step") movement. I might be totally wrong but I read on a packers board a few months ago a not so detailed description of this new blocking scheme. From my interpretation of it the linemen aren't assigned a "man" to block but an area and anyone in that "area" is "your man". But the OL still tries to have forward movement/push. I didn't read where there was any "hinge" type movement going on as is in our technique."

This brings up the obvious question. Is ANYONE using the reactive blocking technique taught by CBC effectively? Specificially at the college level?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

You mean...

"be physical, but don't be aggressive?"

 

[Hinez 57 Part II]

Help me with this Bucket Step!

"I believe the zone blocking tech. used by the above still implements forward movement by the OL and not reactive ("bucket step") movement. I might be totally wrong but I read on a packers board a few months ago a not so detailed description of this new blocking scheme. From my interpretation of it the linemen aren't assigned a "man" to block but an area and anyone in that "area" is "your man". But the OL still tries to have forward movement/push. I didn't read where there was any "hinge" type movement going on as is in our technique."

This brings up the obvious question. Is ANYONE using the reactive blocking technique taught by CBC effectively? Specificially at the college level?

Could someone explain the Bucket Step part of the Bama OL technique? Am I to understand that is when our OL play like they have a bucket stuck on each foot? I already understand the hinge&collapse/revolving door concept... just need some clarification on the Bucket Step! :tongue:

 

[rgw]

I've heard breakdowns of our o-line scheme ad nauseam on this board, I'm familiar with your vanilla drive blocking, but I'd like to hear how our zone scheme differs from popularly used zone schemes in the pros. It seems very similar in concept, what's the beef?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

"I believe the zone blocking tech. used by the above still implements forward movement by the OL and not reactive ("bucket step") movement. I might be totally wrong but I read on a packers board a few months ago a not so detailed description of this new blocking scheme. From my interpretation of it the linemen aren't assigned a "man" to block but an area and anyone in that "area" is "your man". But the OL still tries to have forward movement/push. I didn't read where there was any "hinge" type movement going on as is in our technique."

This brings up the obvious question. Is ANYONE using the reactive blocking technique taught by CBC effectively? Specificially at the college level?

Yes, many teams use it........in passing situations. We're using it for both running and passing. The technique in and of itself isn't the problem. The manner in which it is being implemented appears to be the major question.

 

[CapitalTider]

The technique in and of itself isn't the problem. The manner in which it is being implemented appears to be the major question.

Does that mean that the problem last year wasn't the scheme, but the inability of our players to run it correctly?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Does that mean that the problem last year wasn't the scheme, but the inability of our players to run it correctly?

From my understanding of CBC's technique, it is not designed to predominantly run out of, but pass. However, CMS is running a pro-set offense (that also uses the I-Formation) which is a more balanced style offense that historically implements a power running game. Would be like buying an Indy car to enter a tractor pull. The indy car isn't the problem but what it's being used for is the problem. It wasn't designed for what it is being used for.

CBC's philosophy would be great if CMS plans on going to a predominantly pass oriented offense. But to try and have a power rushing attack balanced with a passing attack this technique appears (and up to this point has proven) to be a bad fit. But hey, I'm no expert and they don't pay me seven figures to win football games so I can say the above with confidence. :biggrin2:

 

[TexasTideFan]

Re: Help me with this Bucket Step!

I already understand the hinge&collapse/revolving door concept...

LOL:biggrin:

 

[rgw]

Our scheme would be perfect if we played in the shotgun predominantly and mainly ran draws in our rushing game.

 

[TideTiger2005]

First, it was zone blocking in general. Now, after repeated references to pro and college teams using the same scheme, it's CBC's technique within the zone blocking scheme that isn't right.

However, this is the technique that Coach Shula is allowing to be taught.

If Coach Shula thought we couldn't win with it, why would he bet his job on it (because that's what he'll lose if it doesn't work out)?

He wouldn't.

Either Coach Shula doesn't know what he's doing or the internet posters don't know what they are talking about.

My money is on the head coach of a major college football program.

Watch the tapes for yourself and see whether or not we are firing off the ball on running plays.

Tell me again...isn't this the same technique that Kenneth Darby is running behind on his way to the most rushing yards in the history of Alabama football? Darby gained every single rushing yard he's had on his way to this record behind this technique that "can't be used effectively for running out of".

I find it hard to believe that this technique doesn't work for running when all evidence (and the backing of the head coach) is to the contrary.

But, hey, it must be wrong...because people who watch football say it is... right?

 

[rgw]

First, it was zone blocking in general. Now, after repeated references to pro and college teams using the same scheme, it's CBC's technique within the zone blocking scheme that isn't right.

However, this is the technique that Coach Shula is allowing to be taught.

If Coach Shula thought we couldn't win with it, why would he bet his job on it (because that's what he'll lose if it doesn't work out)?

He wouldn't.

Either Coach Shula doesn't know what he's doing or the internet posters don't know what they are talking about.

My money is on the head coach of a major college football program.

Watch the tapes for yourself and see whether or not we are firing off the ball on running plays.

Tell me again...isn't this the same technique that Kenneth Darby is running behind on his way to the most rushing yards in the history of Alabama football? Darby gained every single rushing yard he's had on his way to this record behind this technique that "can't be used effectively for running out of".

I find it hard to believe that this technique doesn't work for running when all evidence (and the backing of the head coach) is to the contrary.

But, hey, it must be wrong...because people who watch football say it is... right?

The problem in that logic is whether the NFL's popular zone scheme is as similar in practice as CBC's scheme. In some ways, they seem very much alike...but is that truly the case? Just because our guys block areas instead of an assigned defender doesn't necessarily mean that we are using the Bronco's zone blocking scheme.

In Denver, as far as I can tell, their whole line moves as a single unit. For example: at the snap, the whole unit moves across the line of scrimmage left or right, any guy who has no guy in front of them moves up to the next level to seal off a safety or linebacker. I don't see that beautiful unison movement on our line. As the article at the top alludes to, a good zone blocking line - that is following Denver's scheme - will limit negative yards because their tight, unison movement limits penetration by the d-line. Anybody who watched Alabama's line last year saw that limiting penetration was not exactly the case at Bama.

Again, I'm hardly an expert on offensive line play. I do not know what are the schematic differences in the Denver zone blocking technique, but I have to assume there is some fundamental differences from CBC's teachings. Either that or our guys on the line are just flat-out incapable. Is it the catch-n-hinge? How does Denver teach their linemen to engage a defender that comes into their area? These are interesting questions...I don't know to go about finding the answers. Certainly some Denver fan with some inside info is lurking somewhere...haha.

 

[mlh]

Shame on you, TideTiger2005. It's obvious that you have not been paying attention. If we'd been using the right blocking technique KD would already have passed SA in the record books.

Bring back the "pancake posse"!!!!! :tongue: What technique did those guys use?

Now on to the rumors about DJ Hall and how he won't be with the team this fall...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

First, it was zone blocking in general. Now, after repeated references to pro and college teams using the same scheme, it's CBC's technique within the zone blocking scheme that isn't right.

However, this is the technique that Coach Shula is allowing to be taught.

If Coach Shula thought we couldn't win with it, why would he bet his job on it (because that's what he'll lose if it doesn't work out)?

He wouldn't.

Either Coach Shula doesn't know what he's doing or the internet posters don't know what they are talking about.

My money is on the head coach of a major college football program.

Watch the tapes for yourself and see whether or not we are firing off the ball on running plays.
Tell me again...isn't this the same technique that Kenneth Darby is running behind on his way to the most rushing yards in the history of Alabama football? Darby gained every single rushing yard he's had on his way to this record behind this technique that "can't be used effectively for running out of".

I find it hard to believe that this technique doesn't work for running when all evidence (and the backing of the head coach) is to the contrary.

But, hey, it must be wrong...because people who watch football say it is... right?

Most on here have watched the tapes and everytime we've watched them the same thing happens. Our OL doesn't DRIVE block but absorbs the rush of the DL and more times than not one or two of our OL'men end up three yards deep in our own backfield and Darby has to waste time and energy dodging and eluding the defender who has forced his way in our backfield.

I might be way off on this one but I don't think it is ever "good" when defensive linemen frequently penetrate three yards deep into your backfield and your RB frequently has to "dodge" them. But you are probably right, odds are it is us "internet posters" that don't know what we're talking about and CMS and CBC are right. But CBC also thinks (and has been quoted saying) that no one bull rushes anymore either.........maybe he needs to watch the tapes too. :biggrin2:

 

[TRU]

"Bring back the "pancake posse"!!!!! What technique did those guys use?"

I think it was the "fall down and hope that the defender trips over me in his hurry to get at the QB" technique.

 

[TideTiger2005]

But you are probably right, odds are it is us "internet posters" that don't know what we're talking about and CMS and CBC are right.

Is this saying that the posters on this board know more than CMS about what offensive line techniques will work?

Are you actually saying this?!?

:eek2:

Shame on you, TideTiger2005. It's obvious that you have not been paying attention. If we'd been using the right blocking technique KD would already have passed SA in the record books.

Bring back the "pancake posse"!!!!! What technique did those guys use?

Now on to the rumors about DJ Hall and how he won't be with the team this fall...

Exactly, MLH. :biggrin2: