Ole Miss bans fight song, draws KKK

[rgw]

The KKK getting behind something is a death wish for any cause. You had a good run, Ole Miss cheer, but you're days are over.

 

[bnhonest]

I will say this..it is hard not to comment on this without going into a moralistic rant.

If the tradition is only 5 years old, can it really be considered a tradition?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I remember when I was fairly young making a statement about the Confederate flag and "my ancestors dying for it." My mother said something to the effect that I didn't have any ancestors that died for it.

She later told me that I only had one ancestor that was captured and conscripted into the CSA and he deserted along with another group of men and they fled to the west. The family never knew what happened to him until sometime in the 1950s when a descendent of his dug through some records and made the connection to Winston County, AL (now western Cullman County).

I did have, I believe, two relatives that joined the Union armies in Tennessee, but most of those in the family just stayed behind to fight against the confederate sympathizers and conscription raids.

After I found out about the history of the area where I grew up, it seemed funny seeing the way the people in those areas talk about the Confederate flag and the South. For many of their ancestors, that flag and the CSA were their enemies.

I may be breaking our own rules and leading the thread off football, but a lot of the "consolidation" had to do with the brutal period of "Reconstruction." I have my GGF's diary from 1867, wherein he welcomes the Union troops as liberators and scourges the rebels. I wish I had something later, but I do not...

 

[92tide]

I The family never knew what happened to him until sometime in the 1950s when a descendent of his dug through some records and made the connection to Winston County, AL (now western Cullman County).

he's one of them low down free staters i guess we ain't never been no good

 

[Tidewater]

I read earlier today that the next "phase-out" is the "Rebels" name. I'm a little puzzled at that. Think "Rebel Without a Cause," etc. There's always been a certain amount of romance associated that, Robin Hood, etc. The Butler HS Rebels here in HSV have colors of green and gold, as I remember. However, the association with the Colonel, etc. may be so deep it can't be shaken with the name remaining. There are a lot of north Alabamians who really have no real ties to the Confederacy. I don't. One GGF was a member of the Union League, considered a spy (he probably was), and had all his property confiscated by Montgomery. He sued the state after the war, but they successfully defended on the grounds that the confiscation had been done by an illegal rebel government. Another GGF, also from north Alabama fought with the First Alabama Cavalry, USA, a Union Army unit. Alabama was not the monolith which has been fictionalized since those times...

The secession vote in the Montgomery Convention was 61 to 39, with all northern Alabama counties except Calhoun voting against secession (at least, against secession at that time).
Still, once out of the Union, Alabama had 127,000 white men of military age and provided 120,000 men to the Confederate Army, which had to include Alabamians from nominally anti-secession counties. 35,000 of these died in the service.

 

[jangalang]

Freakonomics - Chapter 2

​

 

[derek4tide]

I remember when I was fairly young making a statement about the Confederate flag and "my ancestors dying for it." My mother said something to the effect that I didn't have any ancestors that died for it.

She later told me that I only had one ancestor that was captured and conscripted into the CSA and he deserted along with another group of men and they fled to the west. The family never knew what happened to him until sometime in the 1950s when a descendent of his dug through some records and made the connection to Winston County, AL (now western Cullman County).

I did have, I believe, two relatives that joined the Union armies in Tennessee, but most of those in the family just stayed behind to fight against the confederate sympathizers and conscription raids.

After I found out about the history of the area where I grew up, it seemed funny seeing the way the people in those areas talk about the Confederate flag and the South. For many of their ancestors, that flag and the CSA were their enemies.

My g-g-g Grandfather served in the 1st Alabama Calvary USA.....he was from Winston County as well. When I found out, it made me very proud.

 

[bamanick57]

First of all Ole Miss is Ole Miss is Ole Miss and no amount of "change" to there logo, history, chants, fight songs is going to change that in my opinion.

Second, I had ancestors that fought and died for the Confederacy and I'm not ashamed of that as some of you seem to think I should be. That statement should not be construed as support for the institution of slavery, that the writers of post Civil War history would have you believe, was the only reason for the war. Just saying I'm a proud Southerner and I'm not a fan of trying to erase history.

 

[Bamadonk]

First of all Ole Miss is Ole Miss is Ole Miss and no amount of "change" to there logo, history, chants, fight songs is going to change that in my opinion.

Second, I had ancestors that fought and died for the Confederacy and I'm not ashamed of that as some of you seem to think I should be. That statement should not be construed as support for the institution of slavery, that the writers of post Civil War history would have you believe, was the only reason for the war. Just saying I'm a proud Southerner and I'm not a fan of trying to erase history.

That history goes two ways, some g g g g grandfathers fought bravely and gave their lives for the Confederacy, some g g g g grandfathers were slaves. You would have to be pretty insensitive not to recognize the offensive nature of all of this to the 19% of Ole Miss students who are black, to the 90% or so of the football players who are black or the 90% or so of the recruits who are black.

The university is right to abolish this new "tradition."

 

[bamanick57]

I'm not trying to be insensitive at all; but as you said that is a two way street and we all have history - good and bad.

I'll let this be my last response since I'm obviously marking myself with the PC crowd and I don't want to cause the thread to get totally derailed.

 

[Maudiemae]

First of all Ole Miss is Ole Miss is Ole Miss and no amount of "change" to there logo, history, chants, fight songs is going to change that in my opinion.

Second, I had ancestors that fought and died for the Confederacy and I'm not ashamed of that as some of you seem to think I should be. That statement should not be construed as support for the institution of slavery, that the writers of post Civil War history would have you believe, was the only reason for the war. Just saying I'm a proud Southerner and I'm not a fan of trying to erase history.

Me either. Trying to erase history is neglecting an opportunity to learn. Maybe the KKK erasing themselves wouldn't be a bad thing, though.

 

[hollisx4]

Me either. Trying to erase history is neglecting an opportunity to learn. Maybe the KKK erasing themselves wouldn't be a bad thing, though.

“Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it”

 

[TidePrideGA]

The Klan is a bunch of narrow-minded fools. We are all God's children. That being said this is a positive step for Ole sis imo.

 

[TidePrideGA]

First of all Ole Miss is Ole Miss is Ole Miss and no amount of "change" to there logo, history, chants, fight songs is going to change that in my opinion.

Second, I had ancestors that fought and died for the Confederacy and I'm not ashamed of that as some of you seem to think I should be. That statement should not be construed as support for the institution of slavery, that the writers of post Civil War history would have you believe, was the only reason for the war. Just saying I'm a proud Southerner and I'm not a fan of trying to erase history.

I had a relative who served in the 31st Alabama as a captain. I had countless other relatives who supported and fought for the Union. I honor all fighting men and the sacrifices they have made. However I think its time that some of this stuff just died. No one is trying to erase history as I see it, they are trying to move on.

 

[crimsonaudio]

If the tradition is only 5 years old, can it really be considered a tradition?

This.

I don't know where the line is regarding when something becomes a 'tradition', but I know it's gotta be >5 years...

 

[Bamadonk]

I had a relative who served in the 31st Alabama as a captain. I had countless other relatives who supported and fought for the Union. I honor all fighting men and the sacrifices they have made. However I think its time that some of this stuff just died. No one is trying to erase history as I see it, they are trying to move on.

I agree. It has nothing to do with erasing history.

 

[BigEasyTider]

Just to reiterate on a general theme here, let's just say that the Civil War was complicated in terms of who fought for each side. Many have this notion that the people from the "South" fought against people from the "North" -- however they make that distinction, which is often times confusing in its own right -- but that's not really accurate.

A lot of people from Confederate states in fact served in the Union Army, and vice versa. Personally, my family's roots are from the New York area, and based on the somewhat limited knowledge I have of my heritage just about as many members of my family fought with the Confederates as they did the Union. Again, it's complicated. When historians talk about this whole "brother fighting brother" business, that's not just a colorful turn of phrase trying to add interest.

As for all of these vestiges of the Old South, I've never seen any real reason to keep them around. Regardless of whether or not some people like it, they do at least partially represent -- or were used to represent -- a lot of bad things that happened in years gone by, and I see no need for that. And besides, the whole "heritage" argument has always seemed to be a sham to me. My experiences is that probably 90% of the people I've ran across in my life who use that as a defense to whatever the issue at controversy was didn't know the first thing about the history of the nation or the South aside from a few often times ill-informed stereotypes and generalizations.

Anyway... off the soap box for a bit. I do think it's clear that Ole Miss needs to get rid of all of this junk for its own good simply because this has got to really hurt in recruiting black athletes to your campus, and I've yet to come across a decent counter-argument to that which would convince me otherwise. In the long term, if they can successfully rid themselves of a lot of this stuff -- Colonel Reb, confederate flags flying everywhere, the South Will Rise Again chants, etc. -- it will do a lot of good for their athletics programs.

In the meantime, though, it's going to get ugly. All the supporters will be mad as hell, and it'll turn into one big circus. Any time the Klan is marching on your campus... well, nothing good ever came of that. This might all be a positive for Ole Miss someday in the future, but for now, as usual, Ole Miss is losing again...

 

[IH8Orange]

The secession vote in the Montgomery Convention was 61 to 39, with all northern Alabama counties except Calhoun voting against secession (at least, against secession at that time).
Still, once out of the Union, Alabama had 127,000 white men of military age and provided 120,000 men to the Confederate Army, which had to include Alabamians from nominally anti-secession counties. 35,000 of these died in the service.

The correlation between the "white men of military age" population and the "provided to the Confederate Army" isn't very solid.

Not all CSA soldiers that Alabama supplied were white, not all were of "military age" and not all were actually from Alabama. Also, the military age population isn't static. During a four year period, some enter that range and others leave it. I'm not sure if this estimate takes into account the entire 4-year range of the war or if it is an estimate for a single year.

The definition of "provided" is a bit murky as well. There were a lot of young men that were "provided" to the Confederate Army by conscription raids that deserted at their first opportunity and never went into a battle. They spent the rest of the war hiding, in exile or ended up shot or hanging from a tree. The ones that survived until the end of the war often spent the postwar years watching their backs because of groups of confederate sympathizers that were bent on revenge against those that didn't fully support their cause.

 

[IH8Orange]

In the meantime, though, it's going to get ugly. All the supporters will be mad as hell, and it'll turn into one big circus. Any time the Klan is marching on your campus... well, nothing good ever came of that. This might all be a positive for Ole Miss someday in the future, but for now, as usual, Ole Miss is losing again...

No pain, no gain... I suppose.

 

[TidePrideGA]

Just to reiterate on a general theme here, let's just say that the Civil War was complicated in terms of who fought for each side. Many have this notion that the people from the "South" fought against people from the "North" -- however they make that distinction, which is often times confusing in its own right -- but that's not really accurate.

A lot of people from Confederate states in fact served in the Union Army, and vice versa. Personally, my family's roots are from the New York area, and based on the somewhat limited knowledge I have of my heritage just about as many members of my family fought with the Confederates as they did the Union. Again, it's complicated. When historians talk about this whole "brother fighting brother" business, that's not just a colorful turn of phrase trying to add interest.

As for all of these vestiges of the Old South, I've never seen any real reason to keep them around. Regardless of whether or not some people like it, they do at least partially represent -- or were used to represent -- a lot of bad things that happened in years gone by, and I see no need for that. And besides, the whole "heritage" argument has always seemed to be a sham to me. My experiences is that probably 90% of the people I've ran across in my life who use that as a defense to whatever the issue at controversy was didn't know the first thing about the history of the nation or the South aside from a few often times ill-informed stereotypes and generalizations.

Anyway... off the soap box for a bit. I do think it's clear that Ole Miss needs to get rid of all of this junk for its own good simply because this has got to really hurt in recruiting black athletes to your campus, and I've yet to come across a decent counter-argument to that which would convince me otherwise. In the long term, if they can successfully rid themselves of a lot of this stuff -- Colonel Reb, confederate flags flying everywhere, the South Will Rise Again chants, etc. -- it will do a lot of good for their athletics programs.

In the meantime, though, it's going to get ugly. All the supporters will be mad as hell, and it'll turn into one big circus. Any time the Klan is marching on your campus... well, nothing good ever came of that. This might all be a positive for Ole Miss someday in the future, but for now, as usual, Ole Miss is losing again...

Well stated post. Ole Miss needs to move on. No one is erasing or trying to erase history as I see it. I think they are just trying to move on.