Link: OU prez says Sooners, A&M got invite from SEC

KrAzY3

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I really believe I am more qualifed to "what if" the OU/Texas senario than you or Krazy.
Ok, let's be clear on this. I've looked into conference expansion scenarios for years. I've done a lot of research (admittedly I don't google before every response, if I know something to be a fact I won't compulsively check it). I also have heard from insiders both on the SEC and Texas A&M side. So, it's not as though I'm going into this blind and naive.

I wrote something prior to the Big 12 being saved (for now, even A&M doesn't think it will last, and I suppose you don't since you're here talking about the SEC) and if you take time to read it I think you'll see I've looked a lot of things up and tried to weigh a lot of factors:
Conference Expansion: The Impact on College Football | The Asylum

Obviously it's all shelved for now, but I don't think anyone really believes it's shelved period... Perhaps you'll note that I correctly said that flirting with OU jeopardized the A&M deal. It's not as though I'm forming my opinions without looking into them, that's not the case at all.

Oklahoma sold their soul to Texas. That's all there is to it. They were in the Big 8, their top Big 8 rival was Nebraska. The Big 8 headquarters was in Missouri. Oklahoma allowed Texas to come in and basically take over. Now, their second biggest rival is gone and the rivalry might be permanently in jeopardy. What of the Big 8 teams? Kansas and Missouri for instance... Oklahoma shared a conference with them for almost 80 years! When OU chose to basically give up all Big 8 allegiances, to give up Nebraska and if needs be Missouri and Kansas, they sold their soul to Texas.

Texas was throwing around threats, to never play anyone that didn't go along with the Pac-10 deal. If OU really did break from Texas to join a mega-SEC, they could end up losing not just almost 80 years of Big 8 history, the Nebraska rivalry, but they could also lose Texas as well. This is why OU has chosen to follow Texas to the ends of the earth and was so happy when the SEC gave them a out, it was never a realistic possibility.

Oklahoma could have played the middle, they could have emerged as the central power in the Big 12 but they didn't, they let Texas become the bully instead and now they're the bully's sidekick. It's not a good position and it's a vulnerable position. I'm not joking about them potentially becoming Arkansas, they have farther to fall and they could do that if they tossed away all that history because of the position they've forced themselves into.

To be completely frank, I think the SEC played OU because they really wanted Texas. They would have taken A&M but for a long time now they've envied Texas (and their revenue) and they were probably willing to blow up the existing deal just to keep that option on the table. I don't consider that to be wise, but I think the SEC is holding out hope that they can force Texas into the SEC (perhaps with OU and A&M as leverage) OU's value as a individual program just isn't what it once was. This is compounded by Okie St, if they are a package deal when a conference like the SEC simply can't afford to add both by themselves. All things considered those two have as much in common with the Mississippi schools as the Alabama schools.
 

TideEngineer08

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Engineer, I appreciate your attempts to play out the "what ifs" here but with all due respect, I really believe I am more qualifed to "what if" the OU/Texas senario than you or Krazy. I have been to over 30 OU/texas games, and have lived in Texas for over ten years, and count as my friends several U. of Texas graduates. This game is unbelievably important to BOTH fan bases. To assume that the game would no longer be played if we found ouselves in different conferences is not consistent with how the average OU/Texas fan feels. The game is a happening for both states, culturally, socially and even politically. If you have not experienced it, or know the importance put into this game, there is no way that you could understand it's place. That's all.
There's no need to get high and mighty here. You're talking to a fanbase in the middle of two such rivalries. Do you think UT/OU is anymore important to its respective fanbases than the Iron Bowl or Alabama/Tennessee? I'm not assuming the game would no longer be played, but it is a realistic possibility. Period. You do not move to a 16 team conference and expect things to continue on as they have for years. Why did Oklahoma let go of the Nebraska rivalry? Did that game not mean a great deal to it's respective fans? Please.

No understanding is necessary. The game continues on because it is mutually beneficial to both Universities, but make no mistake. Texas gets nothing out of that game but the rivalry. They do not need OU for recruiting or exposure. However, the same cannot be said for the Sooners side of the equation. Preach on all you want to about history, politics, social and cultural aspects. The facts of the matter played out for the entire world to see just a few weeks ago. Oklahoma NEEDS Texas, but Texas does not need Oklahoma. You all would be in the Pac 16 had it not been for A&M's refusal to go along with the deal. I did, however, say that Oklahoma has done far more on the field than Texas has. But they did it recruiting the state of Texas. Texas has, to my knowledge, never depended on the state of Oklahoma for recruiting. If I am wrong, please let me know.

I'm not saying it's right, wrong, good or bad. I'm saying it is what it is. And that is all. Certainly this topic has been beaten further to death than is necessary. We see things differently. It's that simple. In the end, it really doesn't matter. OU will stay in a watered down Big 12, and honestly, that's better for their fanbase than moving to the Pac whatever or the SEC. There is history there for each team. I'm happy the SEC is able to continue being the most dominant conference in the country without having to expand and risk losing that. Roll Tide and Boomer Sooner.
 

STONECOLDSABAN

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OK, believe what you want. I hate Texas as much as anybody. It will be more enjoyable to kick their butts now more than ever, if that's possible.

Auburn wants to kick our butts worse than anything in life itself...doesn't change the fact that they would implode without bama like they did when the series was discontinued up until the late 40's. and i think deep down auburn knows it....auburn needs ALabama WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more than alabama needs auburn. in fact im not sure alabama does need auburn at all. and to be honest im starting to get the feeling OU needs texas much more than texas needs OU .......and i don't want to feel that way. i don't like texas at all. but it seems to me thats how OU is acting as of late.
 

champions77

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So OU let texas come in and take over the Big 8? How silly. Everything was voted on by everyone. OU had one vote not any more or any less. We didn't throw Neb under the bus anymore than we threw them to the Big Ten. They feel they can have more success in the Big Ten, than fighting us and Texas for Conference supremacy, and they are probably right.
For such a powerless little school, you sure seem to think we are powerful.
 

deliveryman35

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I'll weigh in here on this one.


Keep in mind guys the fly in the ointment with OU coming to the SEC was ultimately their administration and leadership, NOT their fan base. I actually think it's been kind of hard and frustrating for a lot of OU fans to defend the decision that was made, and I know that all of them that I have talked to, almost to a man, were disappointed that they did not land in our conference. I've said since this outcome became apparent though that I think OU will regret this down the road and not taking advantage of the opportunity that they had and that ultimately the Big 12, as currently constituted, will not last very long. I still think it is in its death throws. Say what you want about Neb but they were a big time program and with them gone the Big 12 is now a two-trick pony. As a conference the Big 12 is simply not as prestigious as it was, and I think that will be reflected in the BCS from here on out. And I actually hate that for their fans.

So I think we need to give our Sooner friends on here a little bit of a break. If they are honest, and I think most of the ones that post here are, like Owenfieldreams, Wishbonesooner, and Champ77-- I don't think this was the outcome they wanted either, but they have to live with it.
 
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champions77

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I'll weigh in here on this one.


Keep in mind guys the fly in the ointment with OU coming to the SEC was ultimately their administration and leadership, NOT their fan base. I actually think it's been kind of hard and frustrating for a lot of OU fans to defend the decision that was made, and I know that all of them that I have talked to, almost to a man, were disappointed that they did not land in our conference. I've said since this outcome became apparent though that I think OU will regret this down the road and not taking advantage of the opportunity that they had and that ultimately the Big 12, as currently constituted, will not last very long. I still think it is in its death throws. Say what you want about Neb but they were a big time program and with them gone the Big 12 is now a two-trick pony. As a conference the Big 12 is simply not as prestigious as it was, and I think that will be reflected in the BCS from here on out. And I actually hate that for their fans.

So I think we need to give our Sooner friends on here a little bit of a break. If they are honest, and I think most of the ones that post here are, like Owenfieldreams, Wishbonesooner, and Champ77-- I don't think this was the outcome they wanted either, but they have to live with it.
+1 Deliveryman. I love the SEC and most OU fans would love to be in it. Conversely, most UT fans wanted the PAC 10. You are right, Nebraska is a marquee team, and the Big XII cannot be as strong without them. Which leads me to this, the Big XII's days are numbered. You know it, I know it, and surely the SEC brass and others know it. As much as some on here would not like it, I truly believe that within the next 3-5 years, four new teams will call the SEC home. Which ones? Texas, Texas A&M, Okie State and OU. They will play in the new 16 team SEC, and will be in the West along with LSU, Arky, Ole Miss and Miss State. Bama and Auburn will slide over to the SEC East. That's my prediction.
When the University Presidents realize that a school would be sending their Women's Volleyball team 3,000 miles to Seattle to play a two hour match, and the expense and time away from class that there would be, then the SEC is a much better fit for those four listed above than the Pac 10, much better. Everyone wants to just think about the football team, but there are 16 sports teams to think about, and you have to consider the ramifications of all 16 in order to make sound decisions. Look at a map and anyone can see that the SEC makes more sense geographically than the Pac 10, not to mention culturally.

I wonder, do they say y'all in California or Washington State? Do they know what fried okra is?
 

bamadp

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We didn't throw Neb under the bus anymore than we threw them to the Big Ten. They feel they can have more success in the Big Ten, than fighting us and Texas for Conference supremacy, and they are probably right.
By the same token, OU felt they would have more success in the fighting Texas in the Big-12 than in the SEC.

During the NCAA sanctions, the Mike Price debacle, and out-manned teams of years past, Bama fans had to endure the opinions and wrath of other fans. For whatever reasons the PTB at OU made their decision. Now the average Sooner fan must deal with the consequences, just as the average Bama fan had too.

Speaking as a football fan and not a businessman, OU had a chance to "man-up". Now, whether right or wrong, they are perceived as UT's little brother, and the average Sooner fan must deal with it.
 

KrAzY3

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So OU let texas come in and take over the Big 8? How silly. Everything was voted on by everyone. OU had one vote not any more or any less. We didn't throw Neb under the bus anymore than we threw them to the Big Ten. They feel they can have more success in the Big Ten, than fighting us and Texas for Conference supremacy, and they are probably right.
For such a powerless little school, you sure seem to think we are powerful.
The vote to move the headquarters from Missouri to Texas was 7-5. I said they could have played the middle. I said they could have become the central power by becoming a bridge between Texas and the Big 8. Instead, each chance they got, they sided with Texas. They were the swing vote and they chose their destiny. It's not Nebraska's doing, it's Oklahoma's because they used their vote and their power (remember they get more shared revenue than anyone but Texas) to allow Texas to do what they did. We know Texas brought in a power block with Tech, A&M and Baylor, however Oklahoma could have easily played it down the middle, instead they chose sides. There could have been equitable revenue sharing, there could have been a more central Big 12 headquarters (perhaps in Oklahoma City), there could have been a lot of things that preserved the Big 12 and those rivalries you hold oh so dear, Oklahoma chose otherwise though and clearly reiterated that choice recently. Enjoy your fate and I'm still pulling for that trip to the Pac-10...
 

TIDE-HSV

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I wonder, do they say y'all in California or Washington State? Do they know what fried okra is?
If they don't, they will. The fried okra is sort of the taste of my childhood - it got edged out by sushi. :) "Ya'll" is a grammatically correct (despite yankee opinions, when addressed to one person, it's understood to apply to his whole family) expression which addresses a deficiency in English, and it sounds a lot better than "youse," "youse guys" or "you'uns." All the other Germanic languages retain a distinct plural, both in the formal and informal, for the second person. English doesn't, so we're left to improvise...
 

champions77

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By the same token, OU felt they would have more success in the fighting Texas in the Big-12 than in the SEC.

During the NCAA sanctions, the Mike Price debacle, and out-manned teams of years past, Bama fans had to endure the opinions and wrath of other fans. For whatever reasons the PTB at OU made their decision. Now the average Sooner fan must deal with the consequences, just as the average Bama fan had too.

Speaking as a football fan and not a businessman, OU had a chance to "man-up". Now, whether right or wrong, they are perceived as UT's little brother, and the average Sooner fan must deal with it.
what you and everyone on here seems to think is that OU had a chance to get in the SEC, but elected to stay in the Big XII. What makes you think the Oklahoma legislature would allow such a thing? Not without osu. Just like when A&M was thinking SEC, the Governor stepped in and said no way, not without Texas. So there are other factors in play here that I wish others would recognize.
 

champions77

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The vote to move the headquarters from Missouri to Texas was 7-5. I said they could have played the middle. I said they could have become the central power by becoming a bridge between Texas and the Big 8. Instead, each chance they got, they sided with Texas. They were the swing vote and they chose their destiny. It's not Nebraska's doing, it's Oklahoma's because they used their vote and their power (remember they get more shared revenue than anyone but Texas) to allow Texas to do what they did. We know Texas brought in a power block with Tech, A&M and Baylor, however Oklahoma could have easily played it down the middle, instead they chose sides. There could have been equitable revenue sharing, there could have been a more central Big 12 headquarters (perhaps in Oklahoma City), there could have been a lot of things that preserved the Big 12 and those rivalries you hold oh so dear, Oklahoma chose otherwise though and clearly reiterated that choice recently. Enjoy your fate and I'm still pulling for that trip to the Pac-10...
More shared revenue? Revenue formula takes into consideration the number of times you appear on TV. If OU got crappy and appeared on TV less, we would get less money. So tell me, how do you play the middle when the AD's were voting on the various issues that came up when the Big XII was being formed? Don't vote, or just vote on the side of Neb some, and then on the side of Texas some, regardless if the issue was good or bad for OU, much less the Big XII? And how do you explain that when the Big 8 was thinking about inviting the four SWC schools, do you think maybe there was a vote or two on that? A majority of schools must have been in favor of inviting the SWC schools in the first place, right? So where is that "voting block" you mention?
Give up Nebraska? We gained a lot better conference in exchange for playing Nebraska less. Do you disagree with that too?
 

bamadp

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what you and everyone on here seems to think is that OU had a chance to get in the SEC, but elected to stay in the Big XII. What makes you think the Oklahoma legislature would allow such a thing? Not without osu. Just like when A&M was thinking SEC, the Governor stepped in and said no way, not without Texas. So there are other factors in play here that I wish others would recognize.
The article says nothing about the legislature...in fact Boren says OU received an offer from the SEC but he thought it wasn't a good offer...implying that they could have accepted if they had wanted too.

You know a how the OK legislature works a lot better than I do. For whatever reason, and for better or worse, OU is in the Big-12...end of story. :BigA:
 

champions77

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The article says nothing about the legislature...in fact Boren says OU received an offer from the SEC but he thought it wasn't a good offer...implying that they could have accepted if they had wanted too.

You know a how the OK legislature works a lot better than I do. For whatever reason, and for better or worse, OU is in the Big-12...end of story. :BigA:
Boren said it wasn't a good offer because it didn't include osu and texas. Boren, being an ex governor and US senator, knows his politics, and knows that it would be a battle to leave and not take osu. I wish that wasn't true, cause I cannot stand the pukes anymore than Bama fans can stand the Barners. But it is, what it is. It's the same thing for A&M. They would leave for the SEC in a heatbeat, but the politics step in and make decisions that you don't necessary want to see.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. I think the PAC 10 still wants texas, and I think the SEC does too. There will be some developments in this area soon. Just wonder if the SEC will be more aggressive this time around. They let the PAC 10 get the jump on them the last time.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Boren said it wasn't a good offer because it didn't include osu and texas. Boren, being an ex governor and US senator, knows his politics, and knows that it would be a battle to leave and not take osu. I wish that wasn't true, cause I cannot stand the pukes anymore than Bama fans can stand the Barners. But it is, what it is. It's the same thing for A&M. They would leave for the SEC in a heatbeat, but the politics step in and make decisions that you don't necessary want to see.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. I think the PAC 10 still wants texas, and I think the SEC does too. There will be some developments in this area soon. Just wonder if the SEC will be more aggressive this time around. They let the PAC 10 get the jump on them the last time.
The thought was to be reactive, rather than proactive, and for very good reasons. It's hard to imagine a better situation than the SEC has at the moment. The SEC's berth is what prompted both the PAC10 and the B10 to go poaching to upset the apple cart. I think the SEC will continue in this mode. There's always going to be time for a parry. Any school being enticed is going to listen to all offers...
 

rizolltizide

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When you want to discuss football, I might add more. The University of Oklahoma takes a back seat to no program. Not Texas. Not Bama.
And that's the problem, wishbone. I respect the heck out of OU's football program, but like I've said before, the public perception now is y'all are UT's lapdog. And that's gonna be hard for me to overcome.

And actually you do take a back seat to Bama.
:)
 

KrAzY3

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Give up Nebraska? We gained a lot better conference in exchange for playing Nebraska less. Do you disagree with that too?
You spoke about how important the Texas rivalry was. Oklahoma wasn't always led around by Texas, in fact they left the Southwest conference way back in 1919, and they chose the Big 8 over Texas in that respect. The Red River Rivalry is huge, bigger than the Nebraska rivalry, we can agree on that.

However, the Nebraska rivalry is almost 100 years old and is very big in it's own right. I might compare it to Alabama's rivalry with Tennessee. Did Alabama give it up to make way for Arkansas and USC? For the SEC to become a better conference? No, they did not. They have preserved both the Auburn and Tennessee rivalry.

This "lot better conference" you speak of is no more. The steps OU took to allow this was when they gave up their Nebraska game (in truth most of their long standing Big 8 games in favor of teams like Tech and Baylor) and kept the Texas game (in truth they had to give up neither), when they let the Big 12 headquarters be housed in the southernmost state, when they started walking lock-step with Texas and forgetting over 80 years of history with the Big 8 schools. It was a mistake, even you have to concede that now, as your "lot better conference" is in shambles and Colorado is gone, Nebraska is gone and as soon as they get a chance the second biggest Big 12 state, the one that used to house the Big 8 headquarters will be gone as well. Oklahoma could have been a unifying force, instead they played along with Texas' power grab. It worked, you're big fish in a shrinking pond now and still here, on a SEC board trying to emphasize a value of a program that shouldn't need such a explanation. OU is tainted now, they're tied to a program that didn't join the Big 8 until the 60s and they've hitched their wagon to a program that appears to be the undoing of two conferences in a relatively short period of time.

To be honest that trip out west might be good for you guys. You'll get to play Colorado again at least, may be you can schedule Nebraska as a OOC game. Reconnect with your Big 8 roots a bit. The Texas power block would have dwindled most likely (no A&M, no Baylor... one reason Texas wanted A&M and OU so bad is they no doubt wanted to bring the Big 12 voting trends to the Pac-10 so they could push them around as well), and perhaps both teams eventually come back, a bit humbled but with their priorities more in order...
 
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