Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

[AUDub]

Here you go

Don't you hate it when scientists fail because their estimates are based on false premises?

http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20140309160026308

Thanks. It seems they were mistaken about the total biomass.

Pardon my confusion, as marine biology is far from my bailiwick, but where are you getting the claim that the worry from the scientific community was "emptying the oceans?" I had labored under the impression that the chief worry was lowering of biodiversity. For instance, if you kill all of the tuna, then other critters that tend to be less useful for us would thrive (i.e. Harder to catch and maybe not edible). Squid, for instance.

In fact, your article touches on that:

This means there could be more than 3,000 million tonnes of mesopelagic fish in the ocean - a stock still untouched by fisheries and possibly increasing because of the decline of their main predators, tuna and swordfish.

 

[PacadermaTideUs]

Right.

For what it's worth, Ken Rice wrote a post over at ...And Then There's Physics directly addressing your article and pointing out what he sees as the flaws in Dr. Evans' analysis:

Not even partially correct

Apologies for my second appeal to authority.

I read the page you linked and thought the wisest of sentiments on the matter was expressed in the comments section:

Harry Twinotter says: October 4, 2015 at 11:31 am

Sigh. An Appeal to Irrelevant Authority for sure.

Still the proof of the pudding is the publication of the model and results in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. I will wait for that.

 

[CajunCrimson]

Thanks. It seems they were mistaken about the total biomass.

Pardon my confusion, as marine biology is far from my bailiwick, but where are you getting the claim that the worry from the scientific community was "emptying the oceans?" I had labored under the impression that the chief worry was lowering of biodiversity. For instance, if you kill all of the tuna, then other critters that tend to be less useful for us would thrive (i.e. Harder to catch and maybe not edible). Squid, for instance.

In fact, your article touches on that:

Circle of life man......

No one is killing all the tuna. That would be shortsighted by the tuna industry, don't you think?

I'm guessing Starkist probably wants to stay in business....

The good news is that as long as we have capitalism, all is well, as supply and demand tends to keep it all in check.

And when capitalism finally fails, you probably won't be able to spew anymore anyway....so it will all work itself out. It always has, always will.

 

[AUDub]

I read the page you linked and thought the wisest of sentiments on the matter was expressed in the comments section:

Ayuh. If there is as fundemental an error as Dr. Rice assumes, all the pretty math won't mean much though.

I wonder which journals Dr. Evans has submitted his work to.

 

[AUDub]

Circle of life man......

No one is killing all the tuna. That would be shortsighted by the tuna industry, don't you think?

I'm guessing Starkist probably wants to stay in business....

Well, not literally. Though we've come dang close. Tuna is simply an example. It's a classic case of the Tragedy of the Commons.

It's not so far outside of the realm of possibility that we can hunt a species to extinction, or at least depress its numbers seriously enough to cause chaos within the food chain.

The good news is that as long as we have capitalism, all is well, as supply and demand tends to keep it all in check.

Supply and demand deals with price determination. What do you think would happen if there is little supply? No supply?

Again with the Tragedy of the Commons, there's dang good reason these overfishing regulations exist even though they fly in the face of Laissez-Faire capitalism. People may have noble intentions while acting in their own self interest, but if you do not consider the interest of the group as a whole, everyone loses.

Consider the now officially extinct Black Rhino. It was unscrupulously hunted to extinction all because some silly people thought their horns had some mystical medicinal property. Those horns were worth a lot of money. Then they were simply gone.

Again, it's not so far outside of the realm of possibility that we can hunt a species to extinction or at least cause all sorts of ecological chaos. We've done it before.

And when capitalism finally fails, you probably won't be able to spew anymore anyway....so it will all work itself out. It always has, always will.

Why is this a discussion on economics now?

 

[CajunCrimson]

The only reason I keep shifting the conversation is to see if I can guess your stance on each issue. You never fail. You are like the poster child for the Progressive Movement.

Remember, "man" is not the root of all evil. We are just the top of the food chain. At some point that will change. But whether it be Global Warming or Over Fishing, or Over-eating, or Gas Guzzling SUVs, or Over-Population of the planet.....Enjoy it.

Don't reach the end being bitter, stressed, and being the enviromental, political, and grammar police. Because I intentionally use too many commas because I like to.

I don't eat tuna because it stinks to me. I do sometimes leave the light on in the garage, because I can. I also run the water while I brush my teeth, and occasionally I don't clean my plate at dinner.

And yet the world turns......regardless of if you think you are right and I'm wrong. That is a pretty good deal, I think.

 

[Bama Reb]

And when capitalism finally fails, you probably won't be able to spew anymore anyway....so it will all work itself out. It always has, always will.

Capitalism will never fail. It is what drives all entrepreneurs, small to large, to success in their chosen fields. The only way Capitalism can fail is if there is no one left to engage in it's principles.
Governments can collapse, be overthrown or otherwise fail. But as long as there are people, there will be those who fill their own needs by selling, bartering or otherwise providing products or services to others in order to better their own lives or that of their families and communities.
That is Capitalism.

 

[AUDub]

The only reason I keep shifting the conversation is to see if I can guess your stance on each issue. You never fail. You are like the poster child for the Progressive Movement.

How environmentalism and conservation became some sort of left/right issue is a mystery to me. It's stupid. Intelligent people should agree on this issue no matter which side of the aisle they are sitting. What's good for the world is good for us.

And you still know very little about me politically. I am an environmentalist. Beyond that you don't have much to go on.

Remember, "man" is not the root of all evil. We are just the top of the food chain. At some point that will change. But whether it be Global Warming or Over Fishing, or Over-eating, or Gas Guzzling SUVs, or Over-Population of the planet.....Enjoy it.

I do not consider man's position at the top of the food chain "evil," anymore than I would consider a lion killing a gazelle "evil."

Unlike lions, we have the ability to throw the balance of the predator/prey relationship completely out of whack. It takes care and consideration on the species level to avoid doing so.

Don't reach the end being bitter, stressed, and being the enviromental, political, and grammar police. Because I intentionally use too many commas because I like to.

Bitter? Stressed? I can assure you, I am neither. And I am arguing the science. You are the one bringing politics into this.

Last, I haven't criticized anyone's grammar but my own.

I don't eat tuna because it stinks to me. I do sometimes leave the light on in the garage, because I can. I also run the water while I brush my teeth, and occasionally I don't clean my plate at dinner. And yet the world turns......regardless of if you think you are right and I'm wrong. That is a pretty good deal, I think.

Good for you.

 

[AUDub]

Now to brag a bit, just because I want to and because I'm sure the "well what have you done for the environment?" canard will eventually come up anyway.

One of my hobbies is Z-Wave home automation. Since we bought the house, I've been steadily automating every aspect of it. From where I am sitting right now, I can remotely control nearly all of my lighting fixtures, temperature controls for both ACs, door locks etc.

Through a simple little programming language called LUA, I can program the house to behave a certain way depending on the temperature, cloud cover, position of the sun in the sky, whether it's raining outdoors, time of day, key lights to dim or go on and off with motion sensors and so on and so forth. Lights that do not get switched off go off automatically after bedtime or after everyone is either at school or work. Doors automatically lock themselves. AC will automatically adjust itself up or down. Windows and unlocked doors will text and e-mail me and set off a buzzer if left open or opened to begin with depending on time of day etc. It makes things extremely efficient. Saved a bunch on money (and by extension energy) already. The ACs are absolute energy hogs and the ability to adjust remotely or key off of external inputs is a big saver.

I still have a bit left to do. Window blinds, the fixtures in my girls rooms and closets, appliances and garage doors. Fun hobby. I'd recommend it to anybody comfortable with figuring out and working on their own electrical lines.

 

[mittman]

Now to brag a bit, just because I want to and because I'm sure the "well what have you done for the environment?" canard will eventually come up anyway.

One of my hobbies is Z-Wave home automation. Since we bought the house, I've been steadily automating every aspect of it. From where I am sitting right now, I can remotely control nearly all of my lighting fixtures, temperature controls for both ACs, door locks etc.

...

I have been looking into doing this. Which controller do you use?

 

[AUDub]

I have been looking into doing this. Which controller do you use?

Back when the wife and I were in Margaret, my first controller was the Mi Casa Verde Vera II. It's what I learned the ropes on. My current controller is the Vera III with the Vera II now relegated to operation as an extender upstairs in the attic above my girls' rooms. Despite the lack of documentation, they're not too terribly complex, have an active user forum where you can ask the developers whatever you need to know, a goodly supply of add-ons like the heliotrope app I mentioned prior and are very stable once set up.

I'll upgrade again in the future as I may want something capable of supporting X10.

 

[AUDub]

As far as getting the outlets, switches, dimmers, thermostats and such, when I first started getting into it a company that sold Z-Wave equipment had just folded that division and were shedding stock. I got a good head start.

You'll still find the stuff online, but believe it or not, my local Lowe's stocks Z-Wave equipment under their "Iris" brand that is typically just as cheap and in many cases cheaper than I can find online now. It's branded GE, but actually manufactured by a company called Jasco in most cases.

 

[mittman]

Back when the wife and I were in Margaret, my first controller was the Mi Casa Verde Vera II. It's what I learned the ropes on. My current controller is the Vera III with the Vera II now relegated to operation as an extender upstairs in the attic above my girls' rooms. Despite the lack of documentation, they're not too terribly complex, have an active user forum where you can ask the developers whatever you need to know, a good dearth of add-ons like the heliotrope app I mentioned prior and are very stable once set up.

I'll upgrade again in the future as I may want something capable of supporting X10.

Thanks, I was halfway between getting a SmartThings or a Vera to get started on. I wanted to be careful to get something that would support multiple protocols, and not get deprecated, but not break my bank too bad.

 

[AUDub]

Thanks, I was halfway between getting a SmartThings or a Vera to get started on. I wanted to be careful to get something that would support multiple protocols, and not get deprecated, but not break my bank too bad.

I had seriously considered X10, what with it being the industry standard. If nothing else, it has staying power. But security issues and flexibility steered me toward ZWave.

I was giddy with Lowe's decision to pick up ZWave in the form of Iris. That is a good indicator that we won't see deprecation anytime soon and a nice validation of my choice of protocol.

 

[Bamaro]

The only reason I keep shifting the conversation is to see if I can guess your stance on each issue. You never fail. You are like the poster child for the Progressive Movement.

Remember, "man" is not the root of all evil. We are just the top of the food chain. At some point that will change. But whether it be Global Warming or Over Fishing, or Over-eating, or Gas Guzzling SUVs, or Over-Population of the planet.....Enjoy it.

Don't reach the end being bitter, stressed, and being the enviromental, political, and grammar police. Because I intentionally use too many commas because I like to.

I don't eat tuna because it stinks to me. I do sometimes leave the light on in the garage, because I can. I also run the water while I brush my teeth, and occasionally I don't clean my plate at dinner.

And yet the world turns......regardless of if you think you are right and I'm wrong. That is a pretty good deal, I think.

You may want to seek professional help :tongue:

 

[TideEngineer08]

What do you climate change fundamentalists think of Freeman Dyson?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/11/freeman_dyson_interview/

 

[AUDub]

What do you climate change fundamentalists think of Freeman Dyson?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/11/freeman_dyson_interview/

Great physicist and mathematician speaking on an area outside of his expertise, therefore suffering from "inverse stopped clock" syndrome.

Also, fundamentalists? Way to frame the argument there, fella.

 

[TideEngineer08]

Great physicist and mathmetician speaking on an area outside of his expertise, therefore suffering from "inverse stopped clock" syndrome.

Also, fundamentalists? Way to frame the argument there, fella.

Please go read my post again and see if you come to the conclusion I was framing any argument the second time around. Fella.

It was a playful joke, and nothing more. Had I known you all were so sensitive I wouldn't have included it.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Great physicist and mathmetician speaking on an area outside of his expertise, therefore suffering from "inverse stopped clock" syndrome.

Also, fundamentalists? Way to frame the argument there, fella.

So he's just an old codger?

 

[AUDub]

So he's just an old codger?

He holds some crankish views on the matter. Had he been awarded the Nobel he's been unjustly denied, we'd refer to it as Nobel disease.