People with friends/relatives in military more likely to support Iraq operations
- Thread starter Queasy1
- Start date
My cousin fought over there and I never supported the President's position on Iraq. That doesn't mean I don't support the troops.
3 of my best friends have been to Iraq and I have been against the war from the beginning. After serving their time, all three have come agree with me.
I
It's On A Slab
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Exactly.Displaced Bama Fan said:
I give to the USO.
I supported our mission in Afghanistan.
I was wary of the Iraq thing from the start, and fell off the wagon for good when the promised WMDs were nowhere to be found.
But I still support the troops, wherever they are. It's not their privy to question their orders, and that's why we must hold our leaders accountable for sending them there.
Missing the point. Is it any surprise with the constant drumbeat of the press only reporting casualties and negative news out of Iraq that public opinion about the mission in Iraq is turning negative as well?
There is rarely any context given to what we are doing there and almost no reporting on the successes. When there is any reporting on any successes it is usually accompanied with a negative bit of news.
It seems almost as if the entire US Media is presenting Iraq the same as Conkrite presented the Tet Offensive which was a disaster for N Vietnam but was presented as a defeat for America.
BTW, my wife's cousin served in Iraq. I still support the mission there and think it would be more of a disaster for us to leave Iraq now then it was when we left Vietnam.
There is rarely any context given to what we are doing there and almost no reporting on the successes. When there is any reporting on any successes it is usually accompanied with a negative bit of news.
It seems almost as if the entire US Media is presenting Iraq the same as Conkrite presented the Tet Offensive which was a disaster for N Vietnam but was presented as a defeat for America.
BTW, my wife's cousin served in Iraq. I still support the mission there and think it would be more of a disaster for us to leave Iraq now then it was when we left Vietnam.
As a person that grew up in a military family I support the Afghan operation and the continued hunt for Bin Laden. However, I didn't and don't support the Iraq War.
That being said, I agree with what Colin Powell told the President, "You break it, you buy it!" As I have from the beginning here on Tidefans this is an eight to ten year committment from the military and the country itself.
You can't go over and say, "Your Free!" and expect people to understand "Freedom" where there was none before. You have to have educated people to run the government and people willing to die for a concept that they have no idea what it means.
I am still leary of an Iraq that can't defend itself from Iran in the South and Turkey in the North.
That being said, I agree with what Colin Powell told the President, "You break it, you buy it!" As I have from the beginning here on Tidefans this is an eight to ten year committment from the military and the country itself.
You can't go over and say, "Your Free!" and expect people to understand "Freedom" where there was none before. You have to have educated people to run the government and people willing to die for a concept that they have no idea what it means.
I am still leary of an Iraq that can't defend itself from Iran in the South and Turkey in the North.
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The most vocal war protester in my area is a woman whose son is over there, and she wants him brought back, says he was brought in on false pretenses (the WMD thing). Just like Sheehan, only the son is still alive. For now, anyway.
Al Franken apparently does regular USO appearances in Iraq. And the troops like him. He does a goofy impression of Saddam trying to re-open negotiations from jail. And we all know Franken ain't exactly a Bush supporter.
There's a variety of viewpoints on the deep, complicated issue of war. It isn't just, "you're with us or against us". There's a lot of polls showing solid majorities of Americans against the war. Do they all "disrespect the troops". I really doubt it.
Al Franken apparently does regular USO appearances in Iraq. And the troops like him. He does a goofy impression of Saddam trying to re-open negotiations from jail. And we all know Franken ain't exactly a Bush supporter.
There's a variety of viewpoints on the deep, complicated issue of war. It isn't just, "you're with us or against us". There's a lot of polls showing solid majorities of Americans against the war. Do they all "disrespect the troops". I really doubt it.
The problem I have with all this is that there are alot of misunderstandings on all sides.
First I am a veteran served in the US Army from 1991-1999. I was part of Clinton's debacle in Somlia, and his media darlings in Haiti. We withdrew from Somalia when the 18 soldiers got killed in one raid. In all truth more than 40 US servicemen died while serving in Somalia from 1992-1994, and I can't tell you how many were wounded. But we showed the world then if they punched us in the gut we would cut and run. That was Clinton's policy. Now I voted for the man so I can't really complain, but after Oct 3rd 1993 we(soldiers) wanted to sweep Mogadishu clean, but we pulled out. Haiti was a joke, slight overkill we landed 20,000 US troops in the country between daybreak and sunset on that day. We owned the country before we landed.
I have buddies serving in Iraq and Afhganistan that I served with. They are affraid the same thing is about to happen. Due to media and anti Bush/ anit war movement they will be forced to leave before the job is done. They want to finish the job, yes you are always going to find soldiers that dont agree, happens everyday in your daily job doesnt it? And of course the media will interview them on national tv. Not the soldier that says "yes its going great, we just built a school and have Iraqi children going to school for the first time."
WMD- They had them, probably moved to Syria prior to the invasion. The intelligence was either old, or just flat out wrong. But wasnt it backed up by the Brits and Israelis? So the intelligence reports were wrong. Oh well lets blame Bush he planted the photos in Powells briefcase. Please. I wonder how many bad intelligence reports were acted on during WW2 and other wars. Just the fact these troops have Al Jazeer, CNN, and Fox news looking over their shoulder hasnt helped. I bet with this media coverage WW2 would have been alot different. We wouldnt have fought it until the end.
I stumbled onto an interesting article about the effects of war protestors and the use of our own media by our enemies since Vietnam.
PRACTICAL EFFECTS OF ANTI-WAR MOVEMENTS
Read all three chapters. Good stuff.
First I am a veteran served in the US Army from 1991-1999. I was part of Clinton's debacle in Somlia, and his media darlings in Haiti. We withdrew from Somalia when the 18 soldiers got killed in one raid. In all truth more than 40 US servicemen died while serving in Somalia from 1992-1994, and I can't tell you how many were wounded. But we showed the world then if they punched us in the gut we would cut and run. That was Clinton's policy. Now I voted for the man so I can't really complain, but after Oct 3rd 1993 we(soldiers) wanted to sweep Mogadishu clean, but we pulled out. Haiti was a joke, slight overkill we landed 20,000 US troops in the country between daybreak and sunset on that day. We owned the country before we landed.
I have buddies serving in Iraq and Afhganistan that I served with. They are affraid the same thing is about to happen. Due to media and anti Bush/ anit war movement they will be forced to leave before the job is done. They want to finish the job, yes you are always going to find soldiers that dont agree, happens everyday in your daily job doesnt it? And of course the media will interview them on national tv. Not the soldier that says "yes its going great, we just built a school and have Iraqi children going to school for the first time."
WMD- They had them, probably moved to Syria prior to the invasion. The intelligence was either old, or just flat out wrong. But wasnt it backed up by the Brits and Israelis? So the intelligence reports were wrong. Oh well lets blame Bush he planted the photos in Powells briefcase. Please. I wonder how many bad intelligence reports were acted on during WW2 and other wars. Just the fact these troops have Al Jazeer, CNN, and Fox news looking over their shoulder hasnt helped. I bet with this media coverage WW2 would have been alot different. We wouldnt have fought it until the end.
I stumbled onto an interesting article about the effects of war protestors and the use of our own media by our enemies since Vietnam.
PRACTICAL EFFECTS OF ANTI-WAR MOVEMENTS
Read all three chapters. Good stuff.
I just don't want American soldiers and the rest of America to appear as cowards that start a fight and dont finish it. We showed in Somalia we no longer have the stomach for war. Apparently even after having so many innocent people die on 9-11 we still dont. Yes the Intell for Iraq was wrong, or appears to be, but we liberated a country. In the 40's we were heroes for doing so. Now many consider us to be wrong for doing it. I would hate to say the men and women that have died in Iraq did so for nothing because some here and the media say everything is going wrong just because their hate for Bush.
We know they had them...hell, we probably supplied them during the Iran/Iraq war. Just because he has/had them isn't a reason to invade. If he's threatening to use against us, that's an entirely different matter.
Oh well, our troops are there now, we can't cut and run, otherwise, Iran 2, will be born...well, after the Sunnis, Kurds and Shiites kill each other.
Oh well, our troops are there now, we can't cut and run, otherwise, Iran 2, will be born...well, after the Sunnis, Kurds and Shiites kill each other.
Why is that a bad thing? Of course people don't like death and destruction. When we're not disgusted by war is when we should worry.RollTideinGA said:
i've seen these ww2 what-if media criticisms before on tf and was wondering if anyone actually buys this? i mean, i really can't think of a more laughably preposterous analogy. as to the point about the liberation of a countty...so what? that's not the reason why the nation supported going to war. your african conflict insights are interesting and i think reveal, more than anything, our pathetic national disregard for africa. talk about liberating a nation, about building schools, etc etc.--nowhere needs it more than the drcongo (the 3000 killed in 911 gets put into proper perspective when you consider 4000000 congolese have been killed since then), a fact even bush is probably aware of. yet there's no 'evil' to fight, just people desperately in need of help--that's not enough for america.RollTideinGA said:
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doctorgonzo said:
Well actually it is a bad thing. We arent as willing to die for our country or defend her as we once were. We have come to be too comfortable that we are isolated enough and the issues of the world can't effect us. Well unfortunatel we have really been at war with terrorist since 1979 when the Iranian Hostage crisis happened. Just not to a massive degree. And our enemy has figured out how to use our media, and theirs against us. No army can beat the US on the battlefield, but they can kill us in our media realm.
Yes death and destruction are bad, but unfortunately sometimes war is neccessary. As the famous quote says "Only the dead have seen the end of war".
As for the WW2 arguement its actually not a preposterous analogy. There are things that happened in WW2 far worse than Abu Grahb prison, Gitmo and so on. Heck in WW2 we used to carpet bomb entire cities. All countries did and civilians deaths were constant. I believe that if the public had the daily bombardment of WW2 tragedies on the TV everynight the US would have never stayed in the war. Heck the images form Hiroshima on CNN nightly would have had Truman hung from the rafters in DC. Wars should be fought on battlefields, not on TV, and in the realm of public opinion.
Africa does have alot of tragedies and does need help. I had the good fortune to see Somalia of course, and Kenya. Clinton's policies to withdraw from Somalia and not finish that mission have not helped that regiont at all. Africa is a hotbed for the black market and is more unstable than any place in the world. Since the dawn of time wars have been fought in Europe and the Middle East. The next "arena" will be in Africa. As bad as the Middle East is I believe Africa will be more horrible to fight a war or any humanitarian mission. The unfortunate thing is that lately our humanitarian missions have become wars. We go to help people and a faction doesnt want us there. I'll never forget handing out food to little Somali kids, and their dads and uncles shooting at us just because we were Americans. Truly sad, you cant win. It leaves a dark place in your soul that the world is like this. Unfortunately right now the tragedies of Africa will have to wait until the war on terror is finished. Sadly enough we have to deal with the most dangerous situation first.
Yes we supported the war in Iraq based off the intel we were all given. But the liberation of Iraq to rid the world of Sadam was also a part of that mission. He had been violating UN sanctions since the end of the Gulf War. He violated several of the surrender conditions, the US had justification under the UN guidelines when Clinton was in office, he just didnt want to act on it due to fear of losing approval points.
Thats all I have on it. Everyone will never agree on the need for force, for wars, and heck even the need of armies. Everyone always wants the US to go and help everyone in need, and when something goes wrong we(soldiers/ Pres) are the bad guys. I have seen enough with my own eyes up close and personal to know we need to help and at whatever the cost. Sadly I dont think the rest of the world is as willing to scrifice to help others as our men and women that have worn the uniform, and wear it today.
04Delta, out...
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ROLLTIDEinGA:
Very nice post.
All this reminds me of an old quote I read in school....I can't remember it completely but basically saying....the definition of war is just people fighting for what they believe in....basically no choice over the country they grew up in which deems to be the one they will defend.....because in their hearts of hearts they all beleive that what they are fighting for is the right thing...
Here are some good ones:
"Vietnam was the first war ever fought without any censorship. Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind"
General William Westmoreland
"Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime"----Ernest Hemingway
"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in Modern war, there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason"---Hemingway again
" What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism, or the holy name of liberty and democracy?" Gandhi
"Join the army...see interesting lands.....meet interesting people...and kill them"
Graffiti at Bromley
and of course all from Catch 22...too many to write...I love literature
Very nice post.
All this reminds me of an old quote I read in school....I can't remember it completely but basically saying....the definition of war is just people fighting for what they believe in....basically no choice over the country they grew up in which deems to be the one they will defend.....because in their hearts of hearts they all beleive that what they are fighting for is the right thing...
Here are some good ones:
"Vietnam was the first war ever fought without any censorship. Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind"
General William Westmoreland
"Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime"----Ernest Hemingway
"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in Modern war, there is nothing sweet nor fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason"---Hemingway again
" What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism, or the holy name of liberty and democracy?" Gandhi
"Join the army...see interesting lands.....meet interesting people...and kill them"
Graffiti at Bromley
and of course all from Catch 22...too many to write...I love literature
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