Play Calling VS. Execution

[tidefan39817]

Spmething is really confusing here. I simply do not understand the thought process of people sometimes. Take this statement for instance, "It's not the playcalling, the playcalling is fine it's the execution of the play by the players"
Or this one, (it was by Mike Shula, Dave Rader or Sparky Woods) "All we are looking for in our running game is 4 yds a carry"

Ok now to my question...is it play calling or execution? Well in a word....BOTH!
lets look at the facts. Our running game is nonexistant right now our passing game is pretty darn good. Anybody who doesn't believe they are watching a great QB in the making is blind. I do believe our Coaches are in kind of a "reverse process" here. Most people agree that if a play is working, you run that play till the D stops it. Our coaches seem to think (or to me atleast) that if a D stops the play, you run it untill it works.

Look at our red zone offense from the Arkansas game. now compare it to our offense inbetween the 20's. Here is an example of a typical scoring drive from the Arkansas game.

First Down: run up the middle for a one yd gain.
2nd down: pass for a 15 yd gain

1st down: run up the middle for a 2 yd loss
2nd down: run off tackle for a 2 yd gain
3rd down: 20 yd pass to DJ

1st down: run up the middle for a 2 yd gain
2nd down: pass to Brown for 30 yd

now we have a 1st and 10 on the 28 yd line

1st down: run up the middle for a 2 yd loss
2nd down: run or the middle for a 3 yd gain
3rd down: run off tackle for a 2 yd gain
4th down: miss FG

so my point is for those saying it is not playcalling what is the one constant factor in all of our missed FG's? Here is my answer, the run game and playcalling inside the 30 yd line. When JPW has one of the best games passing in recent memory of Tide football, why not go with the mentality of let the QB win the game. I fear that JPW will be a wasted talent if the coaches do not stop playing to our weakness right now and thats the run game. If every coach of teams we face know that our run game is not working and we are going to stick with it, they will continue to stack the box and shut it down. They will give up the big play because they know we will turn ultra conservative inside the 30 yd line and try to run the ball playing for the not so certain FG now.

I say this is the perfect situation to let JPW win the game for us. Go play action, you know they are not looking for the 30-40 yd TD strike now. it sets itself up perfectly for us to have a monster passing game against an aggresive, fast defense like UF's this weekend. I have alot of faith in what I have seen from Hall, Brown, JPW and even our TE's thus far. What I don't have faith in right now is the playcalling inside the 30's

 

[scottsborobama]

Actually for the game from the 32 yard line in we:

Ran 12 times
Passed 9 times

Of the 9 passes:
3 were completions
2 incomplete
1 sack
3 scrambles

Add to this the fact that 6 of the runs came at the end of the 4th quarter when we were getting in good field position to kick, what would have been, the game winning FG but it was missed from 30 yards out. So up until the last drive inside the 30, the plays were:

6 runs
7 passes...so we relied more on the pass in this part of the field than the run!!

Even though for the year JPW is only completing around 17-20% of his passes in this part of the field.

The play percentages for the Arkansas game in that part of the field were 57% run and 43% pass, which were heavier on the passing side than we had been thus far this season.

Auburn's percentages are around 71% run and 29% pass
Louisville's percentages are around 79% run and 21% pass
Notre Dame's percentages are around 56% run and 44% pass

The perception is that we abandoned the pass in this part of the field, the reality is that we were very close to being balanced like we need to be.

 

[bayoutider]

Actually for the game from the 32 yard line in we:

Ran 12 times
Passed 9 times

Of the 9 passes:
3 were completions
2 incomplete
1 sack
3 scrambles

For the year JPW is only completing around 17-20% of his passes in this part of the field.

The play percentages for the Arkansas game in that part of the field were 57% run and 43% pass, which were heavier on the passing side than we had been thus far this season.

Auburn's percentages are around 71% run and 29% pass
Louisville's percentages are around 79% run and 21% pass
Notre Dame's percentages are around 56% run and 44% pass

The perception is that we abandoned the pass in this part of the field, the reality is that we were very close to being balanced like we need to be.

And another myth is busted

 

[mlh]

The perception is that we abandoned the pass in this part of the field, the reality is that we were very close to being balanced like we need to be.

Interesting stats. However, balance don't mean squat if you don't put points on the board.

 

[scottsborobama]

Interesting stats. However, balance don't mean squat if you don't put points on the board.

Then this question arises. What would you do? Say we don't play balanced. We lean heavily on the pass, so the opposing defense knows what we are doing and shuts the pass down, plus we're completing less than 20% of our passes in this part of the field so far this season. OK, in that case we lean on the run, but that wouldn't be smart due to our running struggles.

What is the best answer? To leave the defense guessing on which play you're going to run, i.e. be balanced. Then allow your football players to make plays for you. Balance isn't going into the game saying "we're going to run the ball 30 times and pass the ball 30 times." Balance refers to the defense not being overly confident in what type of play you are going to run.

Example: until the last drive of the 4th quarter, (from the 32 in) we ran the ball 6 times and passed it 7 to keep the defense off balance on what play we were going to run next.

 

[mlh]

Balance isn't going into the game saying "we're going to run the ball 30 times and pass the ball 30 times."

Unfortunately, for CMS and CDR I'm afraid that is exactly what balance means.

What would I do? I'd continue to do whatever is working...not over the course of the season...not last week...right now, in this game, against this opponent, attacking their weakness with what is working. You don't need to throw the ball 7 times and run the ball 7 times to keep the defense guessing about what you're going to do. You can throw the ball 10 times and run the ball 4 times and still keep the defense guessing if you catch them in an alignment or scheme that makes them vulnerable to the run. If those 4 running plays work it doesn't matter that your ratio is roughly 70-30 in favor of the pass.

 

[jwade11]

I was at the game. You do not continue to run up the middle when there are 8(sometimes 9) men in the box. THAT IS THE REASON WHY IT IS PLAYCALLING. They were playing man for man. We had 2 yards per carry. I understand trying to establish the run, but this is ridiculous.

 

[tidefan39817]

I was at the game. You do not continue to run up the middle when there are 8(sometimes 9) men in the box. THAT IS THE REASON WHY IT IS PLAYCALLING. They were playing man for man. We had 2 yards per carry. I understand trying to establish the run, but this is ridiculous.

That is my point !! they (Arkansas) was daring us to pass, and when we did pretty good things happened. If we did more of it, maybe teams would back off putting 8-9 in the box. for you "Stats matter" people what are the chances of 4 DB's covering 4 WR's man on man and shutting them down ???

 

[cbi1972]

That is my point !! they (Arkansas) was daring us to pass, and when we did pretty good things happened. If we did more of it, maybe teams would back off putting 8-9 in the box. for you "Stats matter" people what are the chances of 4 DB's covering 4 WR's man on man and shutting them down ???

If they're "in the box" they're sure not covering receivers.

 

[scottsborobama]

You don't need to throw the ball 7 times and run the ball 7 times to keep the defense guessing about what you're going to do. You can throw the ball 10 times and run the ball 4 times and still keep the defense guessing if you catch them in an alignment or scheme that makes them vulnerable to the run. If those 4 running plays work it doesn't matter that your ratio is roughly 70-30 in favor of the pass.

I agree with staying with what what works, but from all accounts our passing game is benefiting from defenses expecting us to run. We have to keep it balanced for the pass to work or the run to work in the SEC.

As far as not being a balanced offense, that's exactly what Hawaii and Texas Tech aren't and we stopped both of those offenses. My point is that Bama plays in the SEC against some of the toughest defenses in the nation year after year. Because of this, every SEC offense is balanced.

As far as doing what works, Alabama passed the ball multiple times on every drive in the game except 3 (1 of those we were setting up for the winning FG).

In a situation where we didn't use the pass we have to know the circumstances before we can know why. What was the defensive personel, had we passed 2 times before that or ran 2 times before that and the defense was setting up accordingly, etc. Again, we can't run an offense like Hawaii or Texas Tech that utilizes the pass 70% of the time because of the defenses in the SEC. EVERY offense in the SEC is balanced by necessity.

 

[cbi1972]

Again, we can't run an offense like Hawaii or Texas Tech that utilizes the pass 70% of the time because of the defenses in the SEC. EVERY offense in the SEC is balanced by necessity.

If you pass every time they sell out against the run, and shred them by doing so, defenses will wise up and respect the passing game, thus allowing for a running game. Offenses are balanced because it keeps defenses guessing, but if defenses are going to be unbalanced, then offenses need to be unbalanced in exploiting it, at least until defenses stop selling out against one facet, and conceding another. Balance isn't of any use for its own sake, but only for what it *should* force defenses to do. An offense should do whatever has the most chance of success, and a lot of times that means taking what the defense gives you. Football cliches like "run to set up the pass" are rendered meaningless when defenses set up to stop the run, and concede the pass. If the defenses are already loading up to stop the run, you've already set up the pass, and you don't need to run more to do it.

 

[TruCrimson]

And another myth is busted

Now that makes sense...lmao

Now if you really want to get down to it...you spin and spin and can make anything what you want it.....you say playcalling cost us the game...I say JPW cost us the game--1st series of the game he had K Brown WIDE OPEN..nobody in site and over shot him by 15 yards, there is 7 points..then he should have taken the sack & not tried and make something happen when it was nothing there, he would not have fumbled the ball and ARK would not have scored 7 more points. So there is 14 points that JPW cost us, & then Tiff a Frosh kicker would not have been in that situation to kick a field goal to win the game....now you can argue and debate all you want, But SH!T happens and kids miss FGs, and kids Fumble the ball, & Kids drop passes....thats football.....by the way I think JPW played great(so dont flame me..just an example) & so did the coaching staff, we just were unlucky and lost. The football gods were unkind last week and we need to pray to them tonight, maybe give some kinda sacrifice offering(i got a goat coming) and go BEAT the HE!! Out of dem gators baby!!!

 

[scottsborobama]

If you pass every time they sell out against the run, and shred them by doing so, defenses will wise up and respect the passing game, thus allowing for a running game. Offenses are balanced because it keeps defenses guessing, but if defenses are going to be unbalanced, then offenses need to be unbalanced in exploiting it, at least until defenses stop selling out against one facet, and conceding another. Balance isn't of any use for its own sake, but only for what it *should* force defenses to do. An offense should do whatever has the most chance of success, and a lot of times that means taking what the defense gives you. Football cliches like "run to set up the pass" are rendered meaningless when defenses set up to stop the run, and concede the pass. If the defenses are already loading up to stop the run, you've already set up the pass, and you don't need to run more to do it.

I totally agree with you. I'm not trying to disprove the fact that we need to stick with what works, I'm just trying to bring another side to the perception that Shula doesn't do that and he just throws when we have to and runs no matter what.

In a game where a lot perceive that we could have thrown the ball all over Arkansas because of JPW's stats of 16-20 with 3 TDs, one has to look at all of the game. "Stats Matter" people can go both ways. We can believe that Shula stuck to the run no matter what because JPW only shows 20 pass attempts and we perceive that we didn't stick to the pass when it was obviously working. I'm only trying to show that, although not all the time, Shula went with what was working more times than not.

JPW, true, was 16 of 20 for 241 yds and 3 TDs. We actually called 32 pass plays and 35 run plays. Of the 32: JPW had to scramble 7 times and was sacked 5.

Of the 35 runs:
4 were on 3rd and 2 or less (1 was a QB sneak)
1 was on 4th and 1 or less (btw we called pass on 4th and 1 during the game also)
5 were inside our own 10 to get us some breathing room
6 were at the end of the 4th quarter to set up the potential game winning field goal

With those things in consideration, in the other plays we called a pass play 32 times with 19 runs. Of those 19 runs: 5 were for 5 yards or more, 3 came after a run of 5 or more yards, 1 was a reverse, and 1 was the first play of the game for 11 yards (counted in the 5 or more yards stated before).

Loosely considering these facts we could argue that Shula did, in fact, call a running play when he shouldn't have about 9-10 times during the game out of 77 offensive plays (not counting false start plays). Not more than half the time like some are suggesting (again loosely it would come out to 13% of the plays in the game).

Stats aren't everything, I know, but one needs to look at them to get a better understanding of what was going on instead of what we think happened.

 

[stlimprov]

Why does this make me think of the John McKay quote?

As head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers during their expansion years, McKay was once asked in a postgame interview what he thought of his player's execution. "I'm all in favor of it," he responded.

 

[bamar]

i think balance is great if you can create a balance in your offense. the run will give the defense more rest between series, that is if it is working. you cannot completely get away from the run, because there will be great opportunities as some have said to get man to man coverage all over the field. any good qb should have a field day in that instance. i would think it is time for mr. wilson to be given the opportunity to call audibles so that when that 8 man box defense occurrs in good field position, he change the run and go to a slant, screen, deep ball. we do little mixing it up in our pass plays as well. how many slant plays, screens do we see. all of the offense has to be ready this week. we will not beat florida with out the pass, and we still need to run the ball enough to keep them honest. watching the tenn vs fla game, i saw the great cutcliffe and fulmer in the second half with a 10 point lead to back to the run which had been averaging less than 1 yard a carry, and they lost all of the momentum, and lost the game.

 

[GrayTide]

I apparently am not smart enough to understand the statistical stuff as it applies to determining whether an offense is balanced or not. To me a balanced offense simply means you have the type offense that can do both equally well given the circumstances you face during the course of a game. Al Borges is held up on this board as a very good OC and is credited with Auburn's offensive success and the main reason why Tubs still has a job. IMO a great deal of why Borges is a good OC has to do with his ability to call the right play at the right time which is to say he does not rely on a certain percent of running plays and a certain percent of passing plays. Also from what I have seen, at least against us, is that we have no clue when a pass is coming or when a run is coming which means, there is no pattern to his play calling which confuses a defense and keeps them off balance. To me that is how you would define a balanced offense.

 

[CapitalTider]

I agree with staying with what what works, but from all accounts our passing game is benefiting from defenses expecting us to run.

What accounts? This is assuming a cause/effect relationship that has not been established. It's based on certain fans' observations and beliefs, which could have inherent biases affecting them. I would contend that, at least against Arkansas, our WRs were just better than their DBs and that is why we had success. I would also contend that the strength of the Arkansas Defense was stopping the run. So we repeatedly went against their strength and did not exploit their weakness. As others have said, if the defense sells out to stop the run, exploit them with the pass until they respect it. Then when the defense is legitimately defending both, you can strive for offensive balance.

6 were at the end of the 4th quarter to set up the potential game winning field goal

Where was the "balance" in this situation? Six straight running plays, zero balance. EVERYONE knew that is what we would attempt, so we had virtually zero chance of success. We went this route to put the game in the hands of an 18 year old making his first road start, who had already had a BAD day. Plus this was with 4 minutes left on the clock, plenty of time for the opposing offense to score.

 

[scottsborobama]

I apparently am not smart enough to understand the statistical stuff as it applies to determining whether an offense is balanced or not. To me a balanced offense simply means you have the type offense that can do both equally well given the circumstances you face during the course of a game. Al Borges is held up on this board as a very good OC and is credited with Auburn's offensive success and the main reason why Tubs still has a job. IMO a great deal of why Borges is a good OC has to do with his ability to call the right play at the right time which is to say he does not rely on a certain percent of running plays and a certain percent of passing plays. Also from what I have seen, at least against us, is that we have no clue when a pass is coming or when a run is coming which means, there is no pattern to his play calling which confuses a defense and keeps them off balance. To me that is how you would define a balanced offense.

Great post. Does Shula call the right play at the right time? That is very debatable. Is our passing game varied enough with different routes, etc? That, too, is very debatable.

Shula keeps the offense balanced, without relying so heavily on the run or pass that we are one dimensional (when he has the QB to handle it, as he does now). However, the plays that we run may, I stress may, leave something to be desired.

 

[scottsborobama]

Where was the "balance" in this situation? Six straight running plays, zero balance. EVERYONE knew that is what we would attempt, so we had virtually zero chance of success. We went this route to put the game in the hands of an 18 year old making his first road start, who had already had a BAD day. Plus this was with 4 minutes left on the clock, plenty of time for the opposing offense to score.

We used the running plays to get to a 30 yard FG attempt and to get the ball in the center of the field. At least that put us in a good position to take the lead. Arkansas did not get the ball with 4 minutes left, they got the ball with 2:59 left in the game. We put the game in the hands of teenagers all the time, it is college football.

 

[AllTide]

I agree with staying with what what works, but from all accounts our passing game is benefiting from defenses expecting us to run. We have to keep it balanced for the pass to work or the run to work in the SEC.

As far as not being a balanced offense, that's exactly what Hawaii and Texas Tech aren't and we stopped both of those offenses. My point is that Bama plays in the SEC against some of the toughest defenses in the nation year after year. Because of this, every SEC offense is balanced.

As far as doing what works, Alabama passed the ball multiple times on every drive in the game except 3 (1 of those we were setting up for the winning FG).

In a situation where we didn't use the pass we have to know the circumstances before we can know why. What was the defensive personel, had we passed 2 times before that or ran 2 times before that and the defense was setting up accordingly, etc. Again, we can't run an offense like Hawaii or Texas Tech that utilizes the pass 70% of the time because of the defenses in the SEC. EVERY offense in the SEC is balanced by necessity.

Spurrier made a pretty good living at UF throwing it all over the field and when he had you on your heels busting you with a big run.

Most people agree that to win you have to put the ball in your playmakers hands. Who are our playmakers??
KD? Not this year. Maybe his success last year came from other teams fear of Brodie burning them deep.

JJ? He seems to be more affective. Maybe defenses are not keying on him like they do KD. I think he needs more touches.

I submit that our playmakers so far this year are JPW, KB and DJ. JPW has only thrown 1 pick and KB and DJ are catching just about everything thrown there way. There is a theory out there that says if you throw enough it will loosen up the defense enough to be effective with the run game. We try to run to set up the pass but when your 3rd and long the defense is going to let you have the underneath pass and tackle you before you get the first down or blitz and force you to scramble.

I said this in an earlier post and I will say it again PREDICTABILITY IS EASILY DEFENSED.

RTR