Question: Question about our LB positions

[GA_Tide]

I know this topic has been covered many times, but I'm still unclear on a couple of things. And all the possible LB position changes got me thinking about this.

I know there are different flavors of the 3-4. And I'm most familiar with 2 versions the Cowboys have run recently (Parcell, Phillips). In both of those versions both OLBs were large DE/LB hybrid type players. It seems Saban likes a guy about 260 for Jack, 240-250 for Mike and Will, with San being the smallest. Is this a preference of CNS or just a function of the fact that we don't have a big guy athletic enough play Sam.

Also, I've seen it stated that Ro McClain isn't the prototypical middle LB b/c he is 6'4". Ideally you'd have someone a little shorter that could move better in coverage. Did he just get put in the middle b/c we were shorthanded? If so, what would be his natural position?

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

I know there are different flavors of the 3-4. And I'm most familiar with 2 versions the Cowboys have run recently (Parcell, Phillips). In both of those versions both OLBs were large DE/LB hybrid type players. It seems Saban likes a guy about 260 for Jack, 240-250 for Mike and Will, with San being the smallest. Is this a preference of CNS or just a function of the fact that we don't have a big guy athletic enough play Sam.

I think it all depends on what kind of guy we can recruit to play the Jack. There are very few DeMarcus Ware or Jason Taylor types that can be 6-6 270, and still have incredible speed and agility. Usually guys recruited for this spot fall in the 6-4 240 range or so, because finding guys like Taylor or Ware is so difficult. Like I said, they have to have speed, agility, and coverage skills of a LB, but also be able to have size and strength to take on OTs in pash rush situations. It can be a very difficult position to recruit for.

You're right about the Mike and Will spots, because those guys are typically that size in a 3-4. As for the Sam, I'm not so sure. Corey Reamer isn't exactly your typical LB at 215 lbs, but with more time in the weight room Harris or Patrick should be around 230, and certainly fit the mold of something the staff would like to have, size but the ability to cover as well.

Also, I've seen it stated that Ro McClain isn't the prototypical middle LB b/c he is 6'4". Ideally you'd have someone a little shorter that could move better in coverage. Did he just get put in the middle b/c we were shorthanded? If so, what would be his natural position?

I wouldn't say he's not prototypical, but he can be a liability in pass coverage at times. However, there's not a better LB in college football at stopping the run. I would think you'll usually find guys around 6-1 to 6-3 in the middle, so McClain isn't too far off from that. Don'ta Hightower played in the middle at 6-4, and that didn't hurt him either. Having said all of that, I think in the future we may see shorter LBs in the middle of the LB corps, much like Petey Smith who's 6-0. Overlooking height though, I think the single biggest thing will be the ability to stop the run, and then the ability to cover well in what is becoming a pass happy league. That's something that our LBs were not able to do in the last two games of 2008.

 

[BAMARICH]

I know this topic has been covered many times, but I'm still unclear on a couple of things. And all the possible LB position changes got me thinking about this.

I know there are different flavors of the 3-4. And I'm most familiar with 2 versions the Cowboys have run recently (Parcell, Phillips). In both of those versions both OLBs were large DE/LB hybrid type players. It seems Saban likes a guy about 260 for Jack, 240-250 for Mike and Will, with San being the smallest. Is this a preference of CNS or just a function of the fact that we don't have a big guy athletic enough play Sam.

Also, I've seen it stated that Ro McClain isn't the prototypical middle LB b/c he is 6'4". Ideally you'd have someone a little shorter that could move better in coverage. Did he just get put in the middle b/c we were shorthanded? If so, what would be his natural position?

I don't know if there's really a "prototypical guy" for any one position in CNS's systems across the LB corps... I think we often do that more than the staff. For instance, a guy who's 240 often can take on blockers like he's 260 due to his strength/center of gravity. IMO, however, Zeke Knight was likely the size our SLB's will eventually be, Ro is taller than most ILB's will be, and Fanney is slower than most Jack's that will lineup for us.

Regarding RM's natural position, it's probably a DE position. Most likely, he'd have been a WDE under Kine's scheme. However, when he came in, we didn't have the luxury of playing him anywhere but ILB because we were so thin.

 

[bamabryan]

Regarding RM's natural position, it's probably a DE position. Most likely, he'd have been a WDE under Kine's scheme. However, when he came in, we didn't have the luxury of playing him anywhere but ILB because we were so thin.

A while back I read something about a pro scout saying R. McClain would play with his hand on the ground a lot in passing situations in the NFL. I figure the scout said this because this is Ro's weak point, pass coverage.

The scout really likes McClain and raved about his ability. I think all football players areas where they need to improve. Obviously Ro's is pass coverage.

 

[Hal Bennett]

I appreciate the insights you guys come up with. I have been surprised at how little I know about the linebacker position. All I know is that when you have several good linebackers, your defense seems to become a dynamic, swarming kind of defense, where the linemen sort of occupy the charging offensive linemen, leaving the linebackers open to make tackles. With all the linebackers we have "lined-up," I am expecting this sort of defense. We will probably stop the run, period. And the comments here about stopping the pass are probably on the money, because teams will probably have to throw on us. After seeing what the Utes did, teams will try their hand at passing on us.

 

[Bamaball2001]

With all the linebackers we have "lined-up," I am expecting this sort of defense. We will probably stop the run, period. And the comments here about stopping the pass are probably on the money, because teams will probably have to throw on us. After seeing what the Utes did, teams will try their hand at passing on us.

I think the incoming freshmen and young guys from last year will be the determining factor this year. If players like Nico, Harris and Stinson (as well as others) can come in and start or even give us quality minutes during pass situations in particular, I think the resulting position shifts and rotations will go a long way to resolve the weakness at linebacker we suffered last year. It may be next year but I am thinking positive that it very well could change right here, right now.

:BigA: RTR!

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

I think the incoming freshmen and young guys from last year will be the determining factor this year. If players like Nico, Harris and Stinson (as well as others) can come in and start or even give us quality minutes during pass situations in particular, I think the resulting position shifts and rotations will go a long way to resolve the weakness at linebacker we suffered last year. It may be next year but I am thinking positive that it very well could change right here, right now.

:BigA: RTR!

The largest impact of the LBs signed in the 2008 and 2009 classes will be seen at Jack. Courtney Upshaw could make some noise there, and Tana Patrick could make his presence felt, not to mention Ed Stinson. Of course this all depends on where some of the other LBs will be moved in the spring. There's talk of a lot of experimenting, and with Brandon Fanney suspended for the time being, there could be several new lineups possible.

 

[herri026]

Obviously our only real deficiencies defensively last year were pass rush/LB coverage, and these two go hand-in-hand. Even the greatest cornerback on the planet can't cover a receiver forever. I think our team's #1 goal for this offseason should be to figure out how we can generate a consistent pass rush.

I'd rank this even higher than the QB battle--our defense with a hellbent pass rush would be great enough to overcome any kind of QB troubles.

The problem is, these days to have a successful DE/LB rushing the pass, you have to find an absolute freak of nature athlete (i.e. Shawn Merriman, Julius Peppers when he was young, Jevon Kearse, etc). We've recruited some guys who I believe possess this caliber athleticism, and I know for a fact we have the coaches to nurture it into a beast.

Also this year even the younger guys should have a decently firm grasp on our defensive scheme, which will only open up more of the playbook for us. Last year we still didn't blitz as much as I'd expected, and I can only attribute it to some players still not mentally having "gotten it." This is a knock on no one--these chaotic 3-4 schemes are a doozie.

 

[BigEasyTider]

I think our team's #1 goal for this offseason should be to figure out how we can generate a consistent pass rush.

I agree.

We have a good defense now, but if we can get a consistent pass rush, we'll quickly find ourselves an elite defense.