Question: Recruiting in Georgia

[Bodhisattva]

CNS has made recruiting in Georgia a priority, and it has certainly paid off. Not only have we secured quality players, we have potentially kept such players out of the clutches of our arch rival.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Georgia high schools. Is Alabama getting players from traditionally powerful programs? We have several OL that just signed that will be redshirting. Was part of the reason they were taken (and early in the process) to get Bama "in the door" at these schools? Not saying we didn't get great prospects here, I'm just wondering about the bigger picture. It seems like we've gone into Georgia more aggressively than ever before. (Of course, I've only really paid attention to recruiting the last few years, so maybe I'm way off base.)

 

[Airborne Tider]

CNS has made recruiting in Georgia a priority, and it has certainly paid off. Not only have we secured quality players, we have potentially kept such players out of the clutches of our arch rival.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Georgia high schools. Is Alabama getting players from traditionally powerful programs? We have several OL that just signed that will be redshirting. Was part of the reason they were taken (and early in the process) to get Bama "in the door" at these schools? Not saying we didn't get great prospects here, I'm just wondering about the bigger picture. It seems like we've gone into Georgia more aggressively than ever before. (Of course, I've only really paid attention to recruiting the last few years, so maybe I'm way off base.)

I can tell you Douglass High where Jonathan Atchison goes is always a powerful program. Brookwood where Kellen Williams always has a very talented team. Westlake where Chance Warmack attends also very strong. I don't know much about Jonesboro or Ridgeland where Michael Bowman and Darius McKellar attend, respectively. But all-in-all these are very strong programs with a good history of success. In fact there is a 2010 recruit from Douglass that is best friends with Jonathan Atchison named Garrison Smith that has a Bama offer. Hopefully we can get some pipelines running into these schools. It is obviously high on Nick's priority list.

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

CNS has made recruiting in Georgia a priority, and it has certainly paid off. Not only have we secured quality players, we have potentially kept such players out of the clutches of our arch rival.

I don't know the ins and outs of the Georgia high schools. Is Alabama getting players from traditionally powerful programs? We have several OL that just signed that will be redshirting. Was part of the reason they were taken (and early in the process) to get Bama "in the door" at these schools? Not saying we didn't get great prospects here, I'm just wondering about the bigger picture. It seems like we've gone into Georgia more aggressively than ever before. (Of course, I've only really paid attention to recruiting the last few years, so maybe I'm way off base.)

Coach Saban is not going to take guys just to get in the door somewhere. These offensive linemen are going to contribute down the road, once the S&C program goes to work on them. Kellen Williams and Chance Warmack are tremendous OL prospects, and many SEC programs went after them.

The future of recruiting in the state of Georgia looks great, with Coach Saban and Coach Smart. We grabbed some great prospects from Georgia, and will only add to that in the 2010 class. I liken this attention to Georgia, to that of Texas, when Coach Saban was at LSU. Now, Texas has far more talent than Georgia as a whole, but the state of Georgia does produce the fourth most NFL players in the country. So, making Georgia a priority is high on Coach Saban's list.

 

[BEATtutorsee]

The Atlanta area is always chock full of top quality recruits and CNS is slowly but surely building up pipelines into not only that area but the entire state of Georgia as well. CNS goes where the talent is.

 

[BigEasyTider]

I'll add this much...

Saban isn't offering anyone a scholarship to get his foot in the door. Aside from the fact that philosophy has been shown, time and time again, to be futile in the end, Saban is simply not going to do that. He's going to go for the best of the best, regardless of where they are -- whether that be Louisiana, Florida, Atlanta, Memphis, Ohio, you name it -- and that's that.

Shula tried the whole "foot in the door" bit with a couple of guys, but it never worked. I think just about everyone could agree that Cole Harvey was that type of guy out Lincoln High in Tallahassee. That's a football factory in Florida, and I think that Shula was just looking to find a way to tap into that. And this one may be a bit more controversial, but I still think that, had Will Oakley not been a teammate to Tim Tebow, he would have probably not gotten an Alabama offer.

Again, either way, it's a futile strategy, and Saban knows it.

 

[LCN]

I know most people like to think of TX , Fla and California first but , Ga is the state which annually produces the highest number of D1 signees per capita . Texas produces the highest in number but , if you consider the ratio , it's really not nearly as impressive as one might think . California ? Per capita , it's terrible . Like 35th or lower .

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

Shula tried the whole "foot in the door" bit with a couple of guys, but it never worked. I think just about everyone could agree that Cole Harvey was that type of guy out Lincoln High in Tallahassee. That's a football factory in Florida, and I think that Shula was just looking to find a way to tap into that. And this one may be a bit more controversial, but I still think that, had Will Oakley not been a teammate to Tim Tebow, he would have probably not gotten an Alabama offer.

I can't argue with the rest of "foot in the door" policy of the previous regime, but along with being Tebow's teammate, Will's grandfather is also a dean in the Business school at Alabama. I'm sure that had something to do with it as well. I just wish injuries would not have hampered him his entire career, he may have been a pretty good WR for us. Now another one of Tebow's teammates, Charlie Kirschman falls into the "foot in the door" policy. Its amazing the lengths we once had to go through to get top caliber players to look at us.

 

[BigEasyTider]

I can't argue with the rest of "foot in the door" policy of the previous regime, but along with being Tebow's teammate, Will's grandfather is also a dean in the Business school at Alabama. I'm sure that had something to do with it as well. I just wish injuries would not have hampered him his entire career, he may have been a pretty good WR for us. Now another one of Tebow's teammates, Charlie Kirschman falls into the "foot in the door" policy. Its amazing the lengths we once had to go through to get top caliber players to look at us.

Good points on Oakley. And don't get me wrong, he wasn't a bad prospect or anything, and he actually was pretty decent at Alabama when he was healthy. However, even to this day, I've always thought that he was a guy who was awarded a scholarship based more on circumstances -- family connections to UA, close with Tebow, etc. -- than actual physical ability and potential.

And I agree on Kirschman, that one had "foot in the door" written all over it. He was a very lowly-recruited tweener coming out of high school, was recovering from major shoulder surgery, and had missed almost all of his senior season with an ankle injury, yet we were on him early like he was the next Cornelius Bennett. He committed in late July / early August of that year, and you knew the coaching staff just had him in Tebow's ear the entire time. At the end of the day, just being objective about it, the entire goal was to get Tebow and nothing more. I really don't think Shula and company ever truly expected him to make any significant contributions at Alabama.

And the interesting thing about it was that Kirschman was a terrible fit for our defense at time, he was the epitome of everything that Kines was not looking for in a linebacker, but we went after him anyway. Honestly, he's a much better fit with Saban's 3-4 than he ever was with Kines' 3-3-5. At least at Alabama he can play the role of a tough interior linebacker against the run, so he can at least give us some meaningful time. With his lack of athleticism, he could have never done that with the sideline-to-sideline responsibilities of Kines' 3-3-5. And it's not like he's really setting the world on fire in Saban's 3-4 scheme either... if you look at JessN's depth charts this season, I don't believe he even cracked the three-deep a single time. He's never recorded any statistics thus far at UA, and honestly I'm not even sure he's ever even played a single snap. Surely he has played a couple, but I cannot recall any.

 

[derek4tide]

I know most people like to think of TX , Fla and California first but , Ga is the state which annually produces the highest number of D1 signees per capita . Texas produces the highest in number but , if you consider the ratio , it's really not nearly as impressive as one might think . California ? Per capita , it's terrible . Like 35th or lower .

Hey, LCN. Just for grins, where does Florida rank on that list?

 

[Braveheart]

Things may have changed but I seem to recall that per capita, Mississippi has the most Division I recruits most years.

 

[BigEasyTider]

Things may have changed but I seem to recall that per capita, Mississippi has the most Division I recruits most years.

The state of Mississippi turns out as much talent as any state in the country, don't let anyone fool you. And also, keep in mind that Mississippi probably has the best JUCO football in the country as well.

Just two problems, and the first "problem" is really a positive for us...

(1) The state is so fragmented with the talent being, largely, split between Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, and Mississippi State that neither of the two major in-state programs can accumulate enough to move into the elite level, thus garnering attention for the state's overall talent pool, and...

(2) Unfortunately, the state of Mississippi also probably turns out more academic casualties than any other area as well. Just think of some of the kids we have gotten the past couple of years: Griffin, Lawrence, Steen, Woodson, etc... all major academic concerns.

 

[Tigerslayer]

Things may have changed but I seem to recall that per capita, Mississippi has the most Division I recruits most years.

:BigA:Braveheart, you are absolutely correct. Mississippi leads the nation in this category, whodda thunk it????????:biggrin:

 

[LCN]

:BigA:Braveheart, you are absolutely correct. Mississippi leads the nation in this category, whodda thunk it????????:biggrin:

Nope . Mississippi was close in '07 and may have been tops in '08 but , Alabama was tops in 2007 . Over the past 25 years Ga is and has been the most productive and it's really not even close .

When I get back this evening and have had dinner , I'll link it up

 

[LCN]

Hey, LCN. Just for grins, where does Florida rank on that list?

It's always in the top 2 or 3 . What usually happens is that a smaller state (AL, MS and recently S.Car & LA) will pop up in a given year with 6-8 extra D1 players and it really gives them a per capita boost but , the same state will turn around and fall to 10th the following year . Fla is just always at or near the top but , Ga has been even more consistent and finishes ahead of Fla the vast majority of years .

Another note concerning both MS & LA - Both states have improved a lot over the past 10-15 years . It used to be that both states were plagued by poor public school systems and usually had tons of academic casualties which was how MS had become so infested with JUCO's during previous decades . LA managed to make great strides after offering the incentive of free college tuition to HS graduates with adequate GPA's .

Now , I'm off to do some digging . Some of you may recall when I posted the same stuff last year and 2 or 3 years ago as well . TBC

 

[bamarebel]

its gonna be really important for bama to recruit in surrounding areas like GA,MS,FL,and etc the next couple years to get top notch prospect around the chart

 

[LCN]

Now , I'm off to do some digging . Some of you may recall when I posted the same stuff last year and 2 or 3 years ago as well . TBC

Paging Alasippi

I think you were who helped me find a couple of threads and maps on this topic last Summer . It was a thread where we had nearly every aspect covered ranging from D1 signees , active NFL players , potential D1 signees , etc. . There's a thread from the Summer of '08 , around Feb/Mar '08 and one from early '07 or late '06 . I thought we were able to put this topic to bed , so to speak , last Summer and when I relocate all of it this time around I will save it for reposting since it seems to pop up a couple of times each year .

When you have the # of posts I have , finding something that's more than 6 weeks old gets rather difficult as a basic search will only return your most recent 150 posts/threads . I'm going advanced and it may take a while to find what I'm seeking . It to several days and help from other members to link it up last time but , I will not rest until it is found - again .

If any of you who recall these threads and do not post frequently , if you would please run a search , I'll give you a dollar

Back on the hunt ....

 

[BigBama]

Old Thread merged...

LCN gave some homework: below is the thread he referred to in his previous post

Time Warp

You can use PayPal for the dollar you owe me! RTR!

 

[HITIDE]

Good points on Oakley. And don't get me wrong, he wasn't a bad prospect or anything, and he actually was pretty decent at Alabama when he was healthy. However, even to this day, I've always thought that he was a guy who was awarded a scholarship based more on circumstances -- family connections to UA, close with Tebow, etc. -- than actual physical ability and potential.

And I agree on Kirschman, that one had "foot in the door" written all over it. He was a very lowly-recruited tweener coming out of high school, was recovering from major shoulder surgery, and had missed almost all of his senior season with an ankle injury, yet we were on him early like he was the next Cornelius Bennett. He committed in late July / early August of that year, and you knew the coaching staff just had him in Tebow's ear the entire time. At the end of the day, just being objective about it, the entire goal was to get Tebow and nothing more. I really don't think Shula and company ever truly expected him to make any significant contributions at Alabama.

And the interesting thing about it was that Kirschman was a terrible fit for our defense at time, he was the epitome of everything that Kines was not looking for in a linebacker, but we went after him anyway. Honestly, he's a much better fit with Saban's 3-4 than he ever was with Kines' 3-3-5. At least at Alabama he can play the role of a tough interior linebacker against the run, so he can at least give us some meaningful time. With his lack of athleticism, he could have never done that with the sideline-to-sideline responsibilities of Kines' 3-3-5. And it's not like he's really setting the world on fire in Saban's 3-4 scheme either... if you look at JessN's depth charts this season, I don't believe he even cracked the three-deep a single time. He's never recorded any statistics thus far at UA, and honestly I'm not even sure he's ever even played a single snap. Surely he has played a couple, but I cannot recall any.

We can look back and speculate on why certain kids that didn't turn out to be great players, at Bama, were offered scholarships but we should never forget the main reason those kids came to Bama.......It is very hard to get top rated players interested in a school on probation, few scholarships to offer, destined to more losses than usual due to lack of talent and depth and unable to play post season games or win championships. We even had the threat of the DP hanging over our heads for several of those years!!!! Even life long Bama fans were going elsewhere (Carnel??) for those very reasons.
It is great that we can now attract the top athletes but we should appreciate what those kids went though to get us to this point.......the worked, bled and sweated just like the 4-5 star players we are now getting.
There is a good chance that a few of the players from the last couple recruiting classes will fall into the same category as the 2 mentioned.

 

[LCN]

LCN gave some homework: below is the thread he referred to in his previous post

Time Warp

You can use PayPal for the dollar you owe me! RTR!

After hours and about a 1,000 archived threads later .....

Thanks for finding it . That's the middle thread and I was able to find it as well but , this is a pretty good one - http://www.tidefans.com/forums/recruiting/75443-out-state-recruiting.html

The first page has NFL #'s and ratios but , the 3rd page is part of what I was really after . It has "prospect maps" which were as close to actual D1 signing #'s as I could find at that time .

There is still a thread out there with a "D1 signee map" in it from back in '06 or '07 but , I'm done with searching for a while :redface: Anyhow , between the 2 threads now linked , GA remains the most fertile state for D1 players .

 

[Bamaball2001]

I think that coach Saban's foot is already in the door. He made good headway last year with respect to recruiting and signing Georgia players and he has already offered DB Tyrone Cornelius of Stephenson HS in Stone Mountain and two of the top junior linemen in Georgia -- teammates Jawaun James and Austin Shepherd of North Gwinnett HS in Suwanee. These are are quality players from my area, they will draw offers from a lot of SEC teams and coach Saban is already in touch with them.

Georgia HS football produces a lot of top players in general, and in this area (Gwinnett Co., DeKalb Co) in particular. It seems to me that there are a lot more players looking Bama's way today, than in the past decade.

In years past if the talk wasn't about UGA it was about Florida. We will always have a tough row to hoe with UGA and FLA head to head but given our recent success, they will also have a tough row to hoe with us.

The fact is that UGA and FLA can't take them all and the next two schools that have, historically, been talked about here are (choke) the Barn and USC east.

Recently, I think we have made big time headway with the players that, in the past, would have looked to AU or USC, before Bama. And, I am talking about high quality players here. There is a lot more talk about Bama football and you see a lot more crimson and white walking the streets. This will only get better with coach Saban driving the engine. As LCN said:

I know most people like to think of TX , Fla and California first but , Ga is the state which annually produces the highest number of D1 signees per capita .

I love to see us recruiting in Georgia and I think we have arrived.

:BigA: RTR!