Recruiting May Not help this Year's National Championship run, read below....

[BAMAfan777]

I hate to say it. As much as I love Bama (went and saw them at the Rose Bowl NC earlier this year, and heading to the Penn State game in T-town this year, already have the 50 yd line tixs in hand....flying out all the way from Manhattan Beach, CA which is home now)...............as much as I love Bama, I think there is one glaring issue that will cost them the National Championship this year. I have played on several football teams, including at the NCAA level for four years (actually had an offer from BAMA to walk-on, but took the full scholarship in California), tried out for the 49ers, etc..........and I have learned one thing extremely well (I've watched damn near every college football game I could for the last 35 years). It is almost impossible to go undefeated or even lose just one game in a season, if your punter and kicker aren't rock solid. Do you realize how many games would have been been closer or loses last year, if it wasn't for Tiffin and the Fitz the punter? We take that for granted, but it is a fact. Now we have a couple of Freshmen or inadequate letter men to fill the holes............good luck. You will see what happens. Unfortunately, Saban hit a hole here.....and as masterful as he has been (darn near the best there is), he should have been thinking of the kicking and punting replacements a little more a few years back to groom them for now.

Classic example among thousands..........the college I went to had a shaky kicker/punter when I first came into the program, and there were a series of losses that related to them.........even though we had the third best defense in the nation, and a pretty good offense, these guys killed the team, even though they were trying their best. The next year, we had a punter come in that ended up averaging about 46/yds a punt (he was only one of two punters that year to get invited to the NFL combine, and he left early as a Junior for the 6th round in Baseball). The kicker that year on our team was voted third team all american in one poll. Do you know how many games these guys won for us? It was as if the whole team rallied around them (we were down 10-0 once, and the kicker made the next four field goals in the rain to put us up 12-10, which turned out to be the final score). The next year the kicker made 5-5 field goals against the #2 team in the nation, to upset them on the other team's home field (which broke a long home winning streak). Later that same year, the kicker was 11-12 on field goals.....then had a serious injury (making a saving tackle). When that injury occurred, the team lost most of it's momentum. The kicker was still hurt the next year, and the punter took off for MLB.......and basically the same team (minus these two kickers) was horrible. The new punter only averaged 33/yds a game and it killed them.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Too bad Bama didn't have a better pipe-line of punters and kickers to fill in for our stars last year. Wish we would have grabbed another JC guy or two this last recruiting season, as we just can't trust freshmen in front of 100,000 people with 40 inch vertical leaps coming at you. I see some disasters ahead here. If you saw the A-day game you might know what I'm referring to.

Hope I'm wrong.

ROLL TIDE!!!!

 

[RTR91]

Interesting first post.

CNS has been looking for a Tiffin replacement for years now. Does the name Corey Smith ring a bell to you? He was one of the best PK coming out of high school. He played some in the 2008 season; he was the one who ran the fake fg against Florida. He transferred back home to WVU.

Where did you play football in California?

 

[Crimson Surfer]

I hate to say it. As much as I love Bama (went and saw them at the Rose Bowl NC earlier this year, and heading to the Penn State game in T-town this year, already have the 50 yd line tixs in hand....flying out all the way from Manhattan Beach, CA which is home now)...............as much as I love Bama, I think there is one glaring issue that will cost them the National Championship this year. I have played on several football teams, including at the NCAA level for four years (actually had an offer from BAMA to walk-on, but took the full scholarship in California), tried out for the 49ers, etc..........and I have learned one thing extremely well (I've watched damn near every college football game I could for the last 35 years). It is almost impossible to go undefeated or even lose just one game in a season, if your punter and kicker aren't rock solid. Do you realize how many games would have been been closer or loses last year, if it wasn't for Tiffin and the Fitz the punter? We take that for granted, but it is a fact. Now we have a couple of Freshmen or inadequate letter men to fill the holes............good luck. You will see what happens. Unfortunately, Saban hit a hole here.....and as masterful as he has been (darn near the best there is), he should have been thinking of the kicking and punting replacements a little more a few years back to groom them for now.

Classic example among thousands..........the college I went to had a shaky kicker/punter when I first came into the program, and there were a series of losses that related to them.........even though we had the third best defense in the nation, and a pretty good offense, these guys killed the team, even though they were trying their best. The next year, we had a punter come in that ended up averaging about 46/yds a punt (he was only one of two punters that year to get invited to the NFL combine, and he left early as a Junior for the 6th round in Baseball). The kicker that year on our team was voted third team all american in one poll. Do you know how many games these guys won for us? It was as if the whole team rallied around them (we were down 10-0 once, and the kicker made the next four field goals in the rain to put us up 12-10, which turned out to be the final score). The next year the kicker made 5-5 field goals against the #2 team in the nation, to upset them on the other team's home field (which broke a long home winning streak). Later that same year, the kicker was 11-12 on field goals.....then had a serious injury (making a saving tackle). When that injury occurred, the team lost most of it's momentum. The kicker was still hurt the next year, and the punter took off for MLB.......and basically the same team (minus these two kickers) was horrible. The new punter only averaged 33/yds a game and it killed them.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Too bad Bama didn't have a better pipe-line of punters and kickers to fill in for our stars last year. Wish we would have grabbed another JC guy or two this last recruiting season, as we just can't trust freshmen in front of 100,000 people with 40 inch vertical leaps coming at you. I see some disasters ahead here. If you saw the A-day game you might know what I'm referring to.

Hope I'm wrong.

ROLL TIDE!!!!

Welcome to Tide Fans. I hope you stick around and enjoy the different boards.

I also hope you are wrong. I know CNS and the staff have been shaking the trees for years to find the best kickers and punters, including some walk-ons.

I agree the special teams kicking game is very important and hopefully the freshman kicker Cade Foster and incoming freshman punter Jay Williams will be up to the challenge.

 

[BAMAfan777]

Yep, but remember the Cal Poly vs Wisconsin game on the Badgers home field two years back. That upset was almost the biggest of all time.....even bigger than Appl St vs Mich. Go back and Google that game and will see the write-up..........an inadequate kicker for Div 1AA Cal Poly missed several field goals and extra points (even in overtime), and that cost them one of the biggest upset wins in the history of NCAA college football.

Isn't there another Tiffin or Zendajas that we can suit up next year! ...there seems to be so many, there has to be another

 

[jps1983]

I guess our O will just have to score a TD on every possession to compensate :wink:

That is definitely our weakest spot and MAY cost us a game, but I see a bigger problem in how our schedule unfolded (facing so many bye teams). That's a lot of extra prep against Bama and a team may catch us. I just don't expect our team to be so reliant on good kicking (punting to change field position or settling for FGs) as we were in 2009. GMac and the WRs have another year under their belts and our RBs are just sick so I'm hoping for better offensive production to compensate for the dropoff in kicking.

 

[BAMAfan777]

I agree.

There is something about a great punter and a nation leading defense that leads to teams having an extremely successful season. The punter drives them back, the defense stops them, and the offense starts with great field position for much of the game. This combo is lethal when in full swing. Hope we get full swing, or as you stated, so good in other areas that we can overcome it.

Either way ROLL TIDE, and you've got to admit, it sure is more exciting being a BAMA fan now, then it was five years ago

 

[Bama323]

FWIW, we have a FG kicker that is returning that is very accurate. He looked good in the A-Day game. However, I don't think he has the leg strength that Tiffin had, and probably will not be kicking many, if any, 45+ yarders. Cade Foster has a big leg, and will likely be our kickoff man, but at this point seems a little eratic with his FG kicking accuracy. However, he's young and should improve. Alot of people forget he was an early enrollee, and should still be a Senior in HS right now. He'll come along and do fine.

We have at least a couple of Punters coming in, so I'm hoping they can contribute right away.

 

[BAMAfan777]

I like Cade too.....man, what a body for a kicker. The guy darn near looks like Adonis, and he's the kicker! I heard his kicking, including his kick offs have been been a little irratic as late, but you're right he is young and will certainly improve dramatically. Only thing I've got to say, is that sometimes those big burly, almost stiff looking kickers scare me. You know they are going to come at you with the big leg, but often times they are not the most accurate consistently on field goals. Yes, and the A-game BAMA kicker is not too bad......more of a soccer background looking kid. Looks pretty accurate, but let's hope he's ready for some extreme situations.....big-time pressure situations, bad weather, and all that's ahead. I'm telling you, we were more spoiled, then we will ever know (until maybe next year) with Tiffin.....and Fitz, he probably was the most under-appreciated member on the team (not that he didn't get some press). Just my opinion, so please don't take offense. Got to say though, I'm fired up for Friday night!!!

and ROLL TIDE!!!!!

 

[runtheoption22]

Cade will likely be like Tiffin's early career. A tendency to shank, but will have the ability to be clutch. Though, I hope we don't have to find out how clutch.

We will find out during fall practice about the punter slot. Williams and the walk-on whose name escapes me will be focused on more than usual.

 

[Black Warrior]

This may be a stretch but at times when Coach Bryant didn't have the best punter in the world (ex: Cotton Clark), he would play field position and have his offense line up on 3rd down and let Cotton quick kick the ball on 3rd down in order to gain field position. Don't know if this tactic would work in the modern era, but this discussion about kickers brought this to my mind. The kicking game, specifically punting, is all about field position. If Jay Williams comes in and does good for us, then we'll have less to worry about. Field goals may be just a matter of getting Cade and the other kickers coached up to the point where they'll be able to contribute consistently. Having a strong leg for kickoffs could also help out our kickoff coverage. If he puts them in the endzone, there will be a drop off in all those long returns that happened against us last season that kept teams like VA Tech in the game when it shouldn't have even been close.
I also remember Coach Bryant talking years ago about how a high percentage of games are won or lost by special teams. I forget the exact number he used but it was significant and made an impression. Our kick coverage, field goals and punting game need to be upgraded considerably if we're gonna continue to compete at the same level as '09.

 

[VegasTide]

Isn't there another Tiffin or Zendajas that we can suit up next year! ...there seems to be so many, there has to be another

Tiffin had me closing my eyes during field goal attempts early in his career. I imagine that Cade Foster (or whoever steps up into that role) will have the same effect. To your other point that he was under-appreciated by Bama fans... I couldn't disagree more. All of last year I was worried about the 'future' after he left. That said, our offense will be more dynamic and powerful than it has been in a very long time. I'm HOPING that kicking will be less important.

You make very valid points that I think a majority of us are aware of, but most of us would like to not think about. I'll bury it down until I need to scream at the TV in a few months.

 

[T-boy]

When you think back a number of our games last year were about kicking.

Tenn was all about the kicking game from both sides.

The kicking game is the easiest way to quickly lose a game.

 

[Hal Bennett]

Well, the threadstarter is speaking from experience, which in itself makes his post worthwhile.

And it is a fact that we will be opening a new season without college experience at kicker and punter -- and for the most part at several DB spots.

But it is not like Saban hasn't anticipated this. I have seen it time and again, if I remember correctly, when not even Alabama would give up an outright scholarship offer to a kicker or punter. Many of those guys who have made it in college, I think, walked on. Saban has anticipated this by carefully expending scholarships at both these positions. He's looking ahead at a kicker in Georgia right now.

These guys are going to have to come through, but I am not ready to say that just because they are without college experience, we are in trouble.

John McKay was famous for saying that kickers are a dime a dozen, that he could find one in a bar room. He proceeded to find a kicker in a bar room when he was at Tampa Bay.

If Alabama football under Bear Bryant and Nick Saban were as vulnerable to such things as new kickers, punters, and DB's as some sportswriters and opposing fans like to think, we might never have won a national championship. Last year, the O-Line and QB were going to hold us back, according to a lot of "experts." The year before that, you would have thought from reading the "experts" that the likes of Clemson and Georgia were going to eat us alive, we were so lacking in experience.

There are other ways to beat back an opposing team than with the kicking game. We've got guys like Courtney Upshaw, Marcel Dareus, Dont'a Hightower. Our offense is going to keep the other team's defense on the field ad lactose. There are more factors involved than starting the season with an inexperienced kicker and punter.

The glass is as half full as it is half empty. You could just as well predict that because we have two high first round running backs, a quarterback who has never lost a game since junior high school, a receiver who is a high first round draft pick, and a high first round defensive lineman, there is no way under the sun anybody can beat us.

There was a time when Lee Tiffin looked like the only place he would be kicking from was under a bus. But Saban came in, worked his magic with him, and Kiffin became what our threadstarter apparently considers somewhat irreplaceable. Oh yeah, that's another thing -- we still have that same guy at the head coach position. He hasn't lost a regular season game in two years, and that includes mostly games played in the Southeastern Conference.

Do you realize that we are wondering if we are going to lose a game or two? That in itself is something.

 

[VegasTide]

Upon further review, this is kinda a football thread, not a recruiting thread... fancy recruiting title though :wink:

 

[crains]

:BigA: The past 2 seasons I have heard the problems we would have from an inexperienced QB or problems with the offensive line but I think we have done pretty good despite the problems some fans thought we would have! Two undefeated seasons and a national championship is not to shabby and I think Sabans great recruiting classes are just now starting to really kick in! I could probably think of more reasons than just kicking why we might not be good but I can think of a whole lot more reasons why we will be! We were not perfect every game last year but can you tell me any team that was? We just done what we had to do against argueably the toughest schedule in the country! We will be competing for championships year in and year out as long as Saban is in command! Mark it down!

 

[BAMAfan777]

You would think that there would be hundreds of decent kickers, strong legged soccer and rugby players worldwide that would take a walk on invite to play for Nick Saban in the SEC every Saturday, am I wrong? That Australian guy with the Chargers turned out to be one of the best.....and remember when there were almost no Europeans in the NBA not too long ago, hell, now even USA soccer can even go overseas and go undefeated in their first three World Cup matches, including England (who would have thought this possible ten years ago).

Why not just play the numbers game here on the kickers and punters? I was always taught to keep a full funnel, if you want to succeed. Is there a limit to how many people they can get to walk on? I would think there is, otherwise why aren't they doing this.

And yes, I do agree, the kicker and punter are not the most important guys on the field!!!

 

[Gallowglas]

I understand what you are saying and certainly I would not argue that kicking isn't very important. It's also, as you say, overlooked. That being said, to say that that recruiting "won't help" is a bit of a stretch. It absolutely will help our bid for a NC. Whether our strengths are enough to overcome our weaknesses I don't know. I suspect that's ultimately what you are getting at. I tend to be a little more optimistic about our chances though. Remember that at the start of the season most teams have question marks and problem areas. Every Tiffin starts out as a rookie. We just have to break our kickers in. I am sure they will do fine. They come highly regarded and I don't think we can exactly judge how effective they may be from one pre-season game.

 

[VegasTide]

You would think that there would be hundreds of decent kickers, strong legged soccer and rugby players worldwide that would take a walk on invite to play for Nick Saban in the SEC every Saturday, am I wrong? That Australian guy with the Chargers turned out to be one of the best.....and remember when there were almost no Europeans in the NBA not too long ago, hell, now even USA soccer can even go overseas and go undefeated in their first three World Cup matches, including England (who would have thought this possible ten years ago).

Why not just play the numbers game here on the kickers and punters? I was always taught to keep a full funnel, if you want to succeed. Is there a limit to how many people they can get to walk on? I would think there is, otherwise why aren't they doing this.

And yes, I do agree, the kicker and punter are not the most important guys on the field!!!

My wife has pretty nice legs... maybe she can kick?! Problem is... last time I through a football at her, she ran away screaming...

 

[PacadermaTideUs]

Though I agree with the general thrust of your post (the kicking game is important), you lost me with "Cal had the third best defense in the nation". And another thing: If I had a chance to walk on at Bama, I'd have scraped together the tuition. I'd have found a way, brother!

 

[JPT4Bama]

You would think that there would be hundreds of decent kickers, strong legged soccer and rugby players worldwide that would take a walk on invite to play for Nick Saban in the SEC every Saturday, am I wrong? That Australian guy with the Chargers turned out to be one of the best.....and remember when there were almost no Europeans in the NBA not too long ago, hell, now even USA soccer can even go overseas and go undefeated in their first three World Cup matches, including England (who would have thought this possible ten years ago).

Why not just play the numbers game here on the kickers and punters? I was always taught to keep a full funnel, if you want to succeed. Is there a limit to how many people they can get to walk on? I would think there is, otherwise why aren't they doing this.

And yes, I do agree, the kicker and punter are not the most important guys on the field!!!

Actually the call did go out this spring for kickers already enrolled in school as a friend of ours son was contacted. This included former high school football kickers and soccer players. So in fact the "numbers game was played" as one would expect from the best coach in college football.

I'm curious as to why you would think CNS would not have already addressed this issue. I'm sorry but it almost sounds as if you're fishing for something here and I'm not quite sure what.