Remembering Pearl Harbor
- Thread starter GrayTide
- Start date
I've probably mentioned it before, but it bears repeating.He deleted it, and here is one response:
Typical modern idiot - if it weren't for the US he'd have been raised speaking German.
A French historian wrote a controversial book which explored that in 1940-1945, when the Germans had 600,000 young French men as prisoners of war working in factories in Germany, the birth rate among young French women in occupied France went up 1941-45.
Les Annees Erotiques 1940-1945
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WW2 servicemen and women are dying off so we must never forget them and what they sacrificed. RIP to all that served and died.
Here are my memories of Pearl Harbor. I remember at church that day, there was a buzz after the service that something awful had happened. My parents and I and my two sisters (two brothers who'd later fight had already moved from home) rushed home and sat on the living room in front of the Philco console radio/record changer to listen to the news. I was struggling with understanding it all, operating with a two-year old brain. I did understand that many Americans had died and that the future was uncertain. Over the next several year, we spent a lot of time in front of that radio. My mother was addicted to a commentator named "Gabriel Heatter," whom I detested. The continuing narrative, I've compared to pulling for a losing football team, although my wife says that's banal. So, the first few years of my life, I associate with the family getting down on our knees nightly and praying that the two blue stars hanging in our front window would not be exchanged for gold, then next praying for all the other soldiers fighting. I bedeviled them with specific questions about the exact bombing range of the Germans and why we had to have blackout shades and tape on our headlights, if they couldn't reach us yet. I guess I was a tough kid to raise...
Here is an odd 2021 take.
America Learned the Wrong Lessons From Pearl Harbor—And the World Is Still Living With the Consequences
Not sure who Elizabeth Samet is, but her take is, shall we say, "off base."
The wrong lesson the U.S. learned from Pearl Harbor was that, "[T]he violent force we inflict on others would inevitably yield virtuous results." I do not know anyone who argues that was the lesson of Pearl Harbor.
"Our memory [of Pearl Harbor] also omits certain compromising details: our reluctance to enter the war on behalf of liberating anyone, our callousness toward the fate of Europe’s Jews, our short-lived interest in denazification, our exportation of segregation to postwar Europe."
So much to unpack here. First the U.S. reluctance to enter the Second World War was born of the fruitlessness of our entry into the First World War. The First War did not seem to settle much. Second, it is very easy to stand at the conclusion of the Second World War and look back at the times the U.S. did not intervene to stop the Holocaust, but nobody in 1930s knew that the deliberate genocide was coming. The word "genocide" was not even in the vocabulary. Perhaps Ms. Samet is unaware of the segregation conducted in Europe for centuries. She acts like it was invented in America and exported around the world.
This is what passes for journalism at Time magazine these days.
America Learned the Wrong Lessons From Pearl Harbor—And the World Is Still Living With the Consequences
Not sure who Elizabeth Samet is, but her take is, shall we say, "off base."
The wrong lesson the U.S. learned from Pearl Harbor was that, "[T]he violent force we inflict on others would inevitably yield virtuous results." I do not know anyone who argues that was the lesson of Pearl Harbor.
"Our memory [of Pearl Harbor] also omits certain compromising details: our reluctance to enter the war on behalf of liberating anyone, our callousness toward the fate of Europe’s Jews, our short-lived interest in denazification, our exportation of segregation to postwar Europe."
So much to unpack here. First the U.S. reluctance to enter the Second World War was born of the fruitlessness of our entry into the First World War. The First War did not seem to settle much. Second, it is very easy to stand at the conclusion of the Second World War and look back at the times the U.S. did not intervene to stop the Holocaust, but nobody in 1930s knew that the deliberate genocide was coming. The word "genocide" was not even in the vocabulary. Perhaps Ms. Samet is unaware of the segregation conducted in Europe for centuries. She acts like it was invented in America and exported around the world.
This is what passes for journalism at Time magazine these days.
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Not many WW2 vets are still around. If one went in at age 18 near the end of the war, they’d be about 94 today.
WATCH LIVE: 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor gets under way with aged veteran salute
About 150 aged veterans — including 40 attack survivors — made the pilgrimage, possibly one last time, to the place of surprise attack and violent death, but also, of inspiring valor that rallied America to “Remember Pearl Harbor!”
Daniel Martinez, chief historian at the Pearl Harbor National Memorial, said he is “stunned” by the size of the veteran contingent.
“We’re talking about people in their late 90s and in their 100s,” Martinez said of this year’s turnout. He added that “for them to have the fortitude to make these long trips and at that age, I’m stunned, and at the same time, I just have joy within my heart for them to be here and be the last witnesses to the attack, because this World War II generation is vanishing right in front of our eyes.”
“The courage and the durability of what they went through in 1941 on 7 December — they are showing it at this ceremony by being here on the 80th anniversary,” Martinez said.
About 150 aged veterans — including 40 attack survivors — made the pilgrimage, possibly one last time, to the place of surprise attack and violent death, but also, of inspiring valor that rallied America to “Remember Pearl Harbor!”
Daniel Martinez, chief historian at the Pearl Harbor National Memorial, said he is “stunned” by the size of the veteran contingent.
“We’re talking about people in their late 90s and in their 100s,” Martinez said of this year’s turnout. He added that “for them to have the fortitude to make these long trips and at that age, I’m stunned, and at the same time, I just have joy within my heart for them to be here and be the last witnesses to the attack, because this World War II generation is vanishing right in front of our eyes.”
“The courage and the durability of what they went through in 1941 on 7 December — they are showing it at this ceremony by being here on the 80th anniversary,” Martinez said.
"A lesson on knowing one's opponent," a friend said to me today.
The U.S. seems to have underestimated the Japanese reaction to sanctions.
The Japanese grossly underestimated the American reaction to a sneak attack.
The U.S. seems to have underestimated the Japanese reaction to sanctions.
The Japanese grossly underestimated the American reaction to a sneak attack.
I think we would have been pulled in, but not before a lot more damage was done in Europe and Asia both...
I didn't make it all the way through Tidewater's article. The December 7 HCR letter is much more informative.
I'm sorry. It was an example of bad journalism.
The author presents a straw man, then demolishes the straw man. Sometimes the violence the U.S. inflicts on other countries ends horribly (Libya)
The lessons I draw from Pearl Harbor are to be ready. International affairs are Hobbesian, there is no competent higher authority than the national state and nation states act the way men did before there was any government to restrain them. Pirates do what they can and prostitutes do what they must. Be vigilant, and be ready.
From the Japanese perspective, I learned do not go to war based on a highly optimistic estimates of the way it will turn out (the US in 1941 was not the Russian Empire in 1905). Things go badly sometimes. Know you prospective opponent as well as you can before initiating hostilities.
Quite correct. IIRC, postwar studies based on the beliefs of the military oligarchs of the Japanese hierarchy revealed that they had far underestimated the industrial capacity of the US and, maybe worse, underestimated the abilities and will of the US soldier and sailors. Probably not so surprising in a nation so inward-turned...
I'm not sure why you are apologizing. I agree with everything you said. I quit reading the article when I recognized it as bad journalism.
I'm only apologizing because you probably would not have ever had a reason to start reading were it not for me.
Recently I was catching up with my 83 year old cousin, and found out that my uncle who I was named after was aboard a destroyer headed to Pearl and was scheduled to be in Pearl on the 7th. His destroyer was delayed by a storm that came close to sinking his ship.
Later he was chosen to participate in the Pearl Harbor salvage effort. He was a diver.
Later he was chosen to participate in the Pearl Harbor salvage effort. He was a diver.
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