Slive and SEC need to think BBall and academics

[TideFactor]

I live in Dallas and am disappointed that Texas & OU aren't coming to the SEC. Texas is just scared of real competition, but that's another topic...

If Texas and OU are indeed going to the PAC 10, I think we need to really think about what would make the SEC better. The SEC doesn't need to be any better in football. We're already the BEST and none of the moves these other conferences are going to make are going to make them better than the SEC. It's hard enough to get out of the SEC and we don't need to make that any harder.

I heard someone on Finebaum mention going after basketball schools and I think they are onto something. Imagine if the SEC added UNC, Duke, VT and Kansas. We would be adding 3 strong academic schools, which is a HUGE plus. We would have UNC, Duke, KU & UK making us the best basketball conference EVER and for the next 50+ years. We would have added the best Football school on the East coast in VT and a team that fits the SEC well. We will add 3 new states in North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas and Washington D.C., Kansas City and Raliegh.

We would be the best conference in the country in BOTH Major Sports, Football and Basketball and we would stack up academically with anyone in the country. Adding Fl. St, Miami and other football powers seems useless to me... I really hope Slive takes this into consideration.

 

[ElephanTideis]

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. Would any of the following make us better in football or add any big markets that we don't already have?

FSU
Miami
Clemson
Ga Tech

The answer is no. Now I would understand going the football route if you could add schools like Texas and Oklahoma, but the fact of the matter is they are not options.

Va Tech is about the only school that might be worth adding football wise. EDIT: WVU would be good for football as well as basketball. Other than that, all your best options are basketball schools.

UNC- North Carolina and national markets
Duke- same as UNC
Kansas- Kansas and national markets
Maryland- Maryland, D.C., and national markets
Louisville- Louisville area market plus they have the rivalry with UK

Any combination of those boosts the basketball value of the conference dramatically to the point where we are above even the Big East.

BTW, this has already been discussed lightly in another thread. Post #100 starts the basketball discussion: http://www.tidefans.com/forums/football/106685-breaking-pac-10-invite-6-big-12-a-8.html

 

[BamaGoose]

Academics? I don't agree with it. If I wanted academics in the SEC, we would have Sewannee (University of theSouth). While academics is important, this is sports and if the athlete wants academics maybe he should be going to Harvard/Vandy/ Stanford/Notre Dame. I had to throw in Notre Dame.

None of those teams are consistently good in Football.

 

[ElephanTideis]

Academics? I don't agree with it. If I wanted academics in the SEC, we would have Sewannee (University of theSouth). While academics is important, this is sports and if the athlete wants academics maybe he should be going to Harvard/Vandy/ Stanford/Notre Dame. I had to throw in Notre Dame.

None of those teams are consistently good in Football.

The argument is for basketball. Academics is just the cherry on top.

 

[bamaga]

Basketball adds very little to the conference. Football is king, especially in the south. although they add no new markets ,strong football schools like FSU, Miami, have national appeal, and would add value at the TV negotiating table. you want proof, just look at arguably the third greatest basketball program, Kansas; they are wanted by no one and may have to move to the MWC. adding a tv market is useless if there is no local interest! Duke may be the exception in that, but they are a big football liability!
On a related topic, the academic argument , the pac 10 and big ten used that alot, then the pac are supposedly offering Texas tech, a horrible academic school; and the big ten is offering Nebraska, a good but not great academic school.

 

[ElephanTideis]

Kansas; they are wanted by no one and may have to move to the MWC. adding a tv market is useless if there is no local interest! Duke may be the exception in that, but they are a big football liability!
On a related topic, the academic argument , the pac 10 and big ten used that alot, then the pac are supposedly offering Texas tech, a horrible academic school; and the big ten is offering Nebraska, a good but not great academic school.

Why does it have to be local interest? Hey, I don't have a citibank credit card, but that doesn't mean I can't make money by being a shareholder. KU bball would be an investment nationally. I'm not saying you're wrong with FSU and Miami, but I would rather go after the big basketball names rather than just fill slots with schools like Clemson and Ga Tech. There are plenty of football schools I would be happy with:

FSU
Miami
Va Tech
WVU

All I'm saying is, I don't wanna see us bring in teams just because they are close.

 

[bamaga]

Why does it have to be local interest? Hey, I don't have a citibank credit card, but that doesn't mean I can't make money by being a shareholder. KU bball would be an investment nationally. I'm not saying you're wrong with FSU and Miami, but I would rather go after the big basketball names rather than just fill slots with schools like Clemson and Ga Tech. There are plenty of football schools I would be happy with:

FSU
Miami
Va Tech
WVU

All I'm saying is, I don't wanna see us bring in teams just because they are close.

maybe I should clarify, Bringing in a top 20, 30, 40 TV market doesn't mean a thing if no one in that TV market is interested in that product. for example, some say adding Rutgers to the Big ten would bring ther NYC TV market, but there is no interest in Rutgers football, or CFB in NYC.

so, no advantage in my opinion.

 

[ElephanTideis]

maybe I should clarify, Bringing in a top 20, 30, 40 TV market doesn't mean a thing if no one in that TV market is interested in that product. for example, some say adding Rutgers to the Big ten would bring ther NYC TV market, but there is no interest in Rutgers football, or CFB in NYC.

so, no advantage in my opinion.

It's not necesarily about watching your team. It opens up the conference to viewers. I won't use NY as an example since you say there is no interest in CFB period. Say we take Duke, UNC, Kansas, and I don't know, Maryland. Now as a part of the SEC, guess who gets to watch the likes of Bama, Florida, LSU, and Tennessee on saturdays? All of those markets.

EDIT: So all the fans of Kansas, UNC, Duke, and Maryland basketball, plus all of the people in their viewing regions, get to watch SEC football and basketball.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

TV viewers is what its about, but don't forget merchandise sales also. WVU doesn't bring a dime of that and I'm not sure Miami brings much anymore. I think FSU and UNC would be the strongest possibilities in that area.

Unfortunately I just don't see any real strong moves on the table for the SEC. What everyone needs to remember is, that's ok.
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[rbvols]

I live in Dallas and am disappointed that Texas & OU aren't coming to the SEC. Texas is just scared of real competition, but that's another topic...

If Texas and OU are indeed going to the PAC 10, I think we need to really think about what would make the SEC better. The SEC doesn't need to be any better in football. We're already the BEST and none of the moves these other conferences are going to make are going to make them better than the SEC. It's hard enough to get out of the SEC and we don't need to make that any harder.

I heard someone on Finebaum mention going after basketball schools and I think they are onto something. Imagine if the SEC added UNC, Duke, VT and Kansas. We would be adding 3 strong academic schools, which is a HUGE plus. We would have UNC, Duke, KU & UK making us the best basketball conference EVER and for the next 50+ years. We would have added the best Football school on the East coast in VT and a team that fits the SEC well. We will add 3 new states in North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas and Washington D.C., Kansas City and Raliegh.

We would be the best conference in the country in BOTH Major Sports, Football and Basketball and we would stack up academically with anyone in the country. Adding Fl. St, Miami and other football powers seems useless to me... I really hope Slive takes this into consideration.

I am of the same mindset on expanding with B-Ball powerhouses. We have enough football schools in this league to hang with any newly formed super conference. Although I love CFB the most, the NCAA B-ball tournament is right there with the BCS games for me.
On a side note, it is kinda cool to see SEC fans lobbying together for our conference and defending it. We may butcher each other up on message boards but we seem to be one when threatened by other SEC wannabes.
Oh and all I have heard thru the years is how Tx. and OU could come into this league and practically dominate it but when you hear them being asked if they would like to come, they make all kinds of excuses of how tough it would be to compete here. So off to the left coast with them. Maybe A&M will come. Sorry to ramble!

 

[Relayer]

TV viewers is what its about, but don't forget merchandise sales also. WVU doesn't bring a dime of that and I'm not sure Miami brings much anymore. I think FSU and UNC would be the strongest possibilities in that area.

Unfortunately I just don't see any real strong moves on the table for the SEC. What everyone needs to remember is, that's ok.
Posted via Mobile Device

Right. This is, of course, about money. Strong conferences get huge TV contracts, and it's because of one thing - football.

Basketball is almost a meaningless factor in all this. Look at Kansas. Big time basketball power. Is anyone scrambling to get them in a super conference?

 

[DiamondDust]

Just keep this in mind when talking about basketball and expansion:

The NCAA more or less keeps all the money the NCAA Basketball tournament generates via the television contract. The teams invited do get a game by game bonus for advancing. Throw that against the fact the conferences get to keep all the bowl money, while the NCAA has nothing to do with it.

Like it or not, basketball is totally irrelevant in this discussion, as shown by the fact no one wants one of the top 5 programs of all time, Kansas. It is all about money that will be generated for a conference, and basketball is not going to do that.

 

[bamaga]

Just keep this in mind when talking about basketball and expansion:

The NCAA more or less keeps all the money the NCAA Basketball tournament generates via the television contract. The teams invited do get a game by game bonus for advancing. Throw that against the fact the conferences get to keep all the bowl money, while the NCAA has nothing to do with it.

Like it or not, basketball is totally irrelevant in this discussion, as shown by the fact no one wants one of the top 5 programs of all time, Kansas. It is all about money that will be generated for a conference, and basketball is not going to do that.

Colin cowherd (I know, I know) made a point. UNC basketball is the top basketball school in terms of finances, their Bball program made 16.2 million last year. Basketball does not pay the bills like football. I would venture a guess that their football program made more than that!

 

[Dallas4Bama]

The NCAA more or less keeps all the money the NCAA Basketball tournament generates via the television contract. The teams invited do get a game by game bonus for advancing.

I learned this just this week in a discussion about this very thing. Most have no idea that's how it works.

It's football, football, football end of story. How many people turn on the TV to watch a football team take the field. Merchandise is 4th on the list with the first 3 being TV sets.

 

[TiderinArkansas]

I'd like the SEC to be stronger in basketball too but lets face it basketball is completely irrelevant to this whole process.

Its all about football. All about the money football generates.

 

[TideEngineer08]

Just keep this in mind when talking about basketball and expansion:

The NCAA more or less keeps all the money the NCAA Basketball tournament generates via the television contract. The teams invited do get a game by game bonus for advancing. Throw that against the fact the conferences get to keep all the bowl money, while the NCAA has nothing to do with it.

Like it or not, basketball is totally irrelevant in this discussion, as shown by the fact no one wants one of the top 5 programs of all time, Kansas. It is all about money that will be generated for a conference, and basketball is not going to do that.

Amazing. It should be clear why the University presidents are so resistant to a playoff.

There will never be a playoff in college football unless the Universities are able to retain control as they do with the BCS and bowl games.

 

[JD95]

I'd like the SEC to be stronger in basketball too but lets face it basketball is completely irrelevant to this whole process.

Its all about football. All about the money football generates.

Bingo. I like basketball as much as anyone, but it's totally meaningless as far as conference expansion. If basketball were even a consideration, you wouldn't see Kansas get completely left of out the BCS conferences, but that's exactly what is about to happen.

 

[miggy402]

Colin cowherd (I know, I know) made a point. UNC basketball is the top basketball school in terms of finances, their Bball program made 16.2 million last year. Basketball does not pay the bills like football. I would venture a guess that their football program made more than that!

right. in comparison, Ark football brought in 60 mil last yr.

 

[Dallas4Bama]

right. in comparison, Ark football brought in 60 mil last yr.

The "Save the Big XII" crew out there wants Arky so we need to be careful. They may get a very lucrative offer thrown their way, or I should say be already looking at a very lucrative offer. :mad2:

 

[ElephanTideis]

The "Save the Big XII" crew out there wants Arky so we need to be careful. They may get a very lucrative offer thrown their way, or I should say be already looking at a very lucrative offer. :mad2:

As many times times as I've heard this, I can't imagine why Arky would want to leave the SEC to join the Big 12 leftovers.

EDIT: Now that I think about it the Big 12 is not beyond saving. There is a way it could become even better than before, actually. What if they came after the hogs and LSU, and Colorado and Nebraska were the only defections?