Some questions about American's beheading

doctorgonzo

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Jan 16, 2002
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This decapitation was supposed to be a retaliation for U.S. abuse of Iraqis in Abu Gharib prison. Oddly though, this video was supposed to have been made over two weeks ago when the pictures of U.S. abuse was only released last week. Berg's family had filed suit against the U.S. government for his release and his last known whereabouts were in American custody.

Some other strange things:

1) extremely convenient "wag the dog" timing at the height of furor
regarding U.S. torture of Iraqis

2) CNN poll question: "Is the Berg killing a reason for withholding any
remaining Iraq prisoner abuse pictures?" Bush has been reported to be
struggling with question of whether Pentagon should release additional
torture photos. Given that the alleged decapitation of Berg was allegedly
prompted by the first wave of torture photos, Bush could now cite "national
security" issues for witholding additional materials.

3) Berg's last known whereabouts was in U.S. custody.

4) Berg shown in video wearing orange jumpsuit known to be of U.S. issue
(compare with pictures at Guantanamo).

5) Berg mysteriously captured by Al-Quaeda (still wearing jumpsuit). Either
he escaped from U.S. captors or U.S. let him out -- with orange suit and
all -- to be immediately apprehended by Al-Quaeda (before he had a chance to
change).

6) Tape obviously spliced together and heavily edited. Goes from a) Berg
sitting in chair talking about family, to b) Berg sitting on floor with
hooded "militants" behind, to c) blurry camera movement, to d) almost
motionless Berg on floor as head cut off.

7) Audio clearly dubbed in.

8) "Arab" reader flips through pages of "statement" and keeps ending up on
the same page. Perhaps doesn't even known enough Arabic to recognize what
page he's on?

9) "Arabs" have lily-white hands and (other exposed) skin.

10) "Arabs" have Western-style body posture and mannerisms.

11) When Berg decapitated, there was almost no blood. If Berg were still
alive at this point, with the cut starting at front of throat, blood would
have been spraying everywhere. Berg's severed head, the floor, Berg's
clothes, and even the hand of the "Arab" who decapitated Berg had no visible
blood on it.

12) Berg's body didn't move while on the ground. Although held down, Berg
would have tried to instinctively wiggle and writhe away from captor's grip.

13) Camera angle made it impossible to see if Berg's eyes were even open.

14) Alleged "scream" from Berg sounded to be that of a woman and was clearly
dubbed in.

15) Berg goes to great trouble to identify himself, providing information
about his family. Why? To elicit greater sympathy? Or to provide a
positive ID. FBI visited Berg family in an attempt to "verify his
identity". Guy in video looks very little like Berg photos provided by
family.
 
Let me cut your throat and we'll decide how "manly" the scream is.

BTW... "gonzo" is a great moniker for you.

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"I've never been quarantined, but the more I look around the more I think it might not be a bad thing." -- George Carlin
 
Sir, I am sorry that my posts do not exactly conform to your narrow world views that you get from the government regurgitation called the mainstream media. These are valid points and calling me crazy or threatening to cut my throat doesn't discount the validity of them.

Given the government track record of lies and deceit, it is just in my nature to question their "official story".
 
From most of the news sources I've read today, I've seen this description several times.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Berg then was pushed to the floor and screamed as one of the executioners wielded a large knife. The man sawed off Berg's head while the other captors shouted: "Allahu Akbar!" Arabic for "God is great." </font>
 
gonzo ---

You've released another cloud of suspicions and "strange" stuff which doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I conclude you either have serious emotional problems or you've been consorting too long with Libertarians and other conspiracy freaks.

Everything ain't a conspiracy. He got his head cut off and that's a fact. Live with it.
I see you'e still using the "torture" garbage, and that's just what it is: one of the biggest bags of garbage ever dumped on the American public.




[This message has been edited by Pachydermatous (edited 05-12-2004).]
 
gonzo - who are you, Bob Woodward?

How come no one else has promoted your agenda?

You are alleging this video (which I haven't seen) was a Hollywood-style production timed to coincide with a particular event - putting "Arabs" in quotation marks, and saying they have Western mannerisms and lily white hands.

You are in fact doubting that Berg was killed at the hands of al Qaeda. Am I reading your post correctly?
 
Once again your post does not reflect your topic. What are your questions?
I guess I'm too narrow minded to see them in your list of statements and observations.

You keep using the term "narrow minded". I do not think it means what you think it means.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by doctorgonzo:
Sir, I am sorry that my posts do not exactly conform to your narrow world views that you get from the government regurgitation called the mainstream media. These are valid points and calling me crazy or threatening to cut my throat doesn't discount the validity of them.

Given the government track record of lies and deceit, it is just in my nature to question their "official story".
</font>

Valid Points???

Put your aluminum-foil beanie back on, return to Area 51 and wait for the mothership.

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"I've never been quarantined, but the more I look around the more I think it might not be a bad thing." -- George Carlin
 
Pachy, once again you dismiss my posts without ever adressing the content of it. I didn't say the man never got his head cut off did I? Your simplistic world view is quite telling.

You say this doesn't "amount to a hill of beans", huh? I say, the fact that these "terrorists" were retaliating against an action that had not even been exposed yet DOES amount to a hill of beans.

May I remind you that the parents of Michael Berg when addressing the media did not blame Iraqis, nor did they blame terrorism, they blamed the U.S. GOVERNMENT for the death of their son. Maybe this information does not mean anything to you; but to this man's family it obviously means a helluva lot.

I have no other agenda than to learn the truth. Just because someone says something which you do not agree with doesn't necessarily make it wrong. I am not a "freak" or a "nut". Spend 5 minutes with me and you will see that. I just look at events and question why they happen. When things happen that don't make sense, I tend to look at them with a suspicious eye.

If this line of thinking makes me a freak or completely insane then so be it. I do not claim to know what truly happened to this man. All I do is bring up issues that should be addressed when going into a thoughtful discussion of the subject.

Just because a man's perception of events is different than your own does not mean he deserves to have his throat cut. If all of you want a reinforcement of your own views then you should not come to an open forum. You could simply sit on the couch and talk to yourself all day.

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Patriotism is loving your country all the time and your government only when it deserves it
-Mark Twain
 
Your post doesn't presume to offer facts, simply Oliver Stone-like conspiracy theories that claim that the US government sawed off the head of an American citizen and/or staged the death to "cover up" the abuses in Abu Gharib prison. It is so far out of the realm of reasonable conversation that it doesn't warrant addressing it on its "merits" because it has no "merits".

Anyone who posits theories like that is clearly not interested in a meaningful dialogue, simply in stirring up anger for their own gratification.
 
Tusk, I am not trying to stir anger in anyone. I am not saying we should turn Iraq into a mushroom cloud or murder all prisoners in Iraq as some here have claimed we should do.

The timeline itself makes no sense and none of you have attempted to address that. Everyone is so quick call me crazy and dismiss my points yet noone even talks about the points brought up. Answer me why terrorists would murder someone in retaliation for something they don't even know about yet???

I am not pressing an agenda here or even trying to persuade any of you believe in what I do. I simply bring up points that certainly should be looked at. I would rather all look at every viewpoint and then make a decision then simply taking the one off the shelf offered up by the government in every instance.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by doctorgonzo:
Tusk, I am not trying to stir anger in anyone. I am not saying we should turn Iraq into a mushroom cloud or murder all prisoners in Iraq as some here have claimed we should do.

The timeline itself makes no sense and none of you have attempted to address that. Everyone is so quick call me crazy and dismiss my points yet noone even talks about the points brought up. Answer me why terrorists would murder someone in retaliation for something they don't even know about yet???

I am not pressing an agenda here or even trying to persuade any of you believe in what I do. I simply bring up points that certainly should be looked at. I would rather all look at every viewpoint and then make a decision then simply taking the one off the shelf offered up by the government in every instance.
</font>

Ok, just to humor you, if your timeline is correct, it is possible that the terrorists dubbed the video so that it could be used as "revenge".

If it was done 2 weeks ago or whatever you claim, why did they wait until now to release it? Were they just waiting for the right time or what?

Please tell me you are not seriously suggesting our military killed him to take away the bad press they are receiving.
 
Gonzo, you cannot be serious! For God's sake, do you look for a devil under every bed!?

The suggestions in your post that the U.S. government executed an American civilian for political gain is delusional paranoia at best, and treason at worst!

Don't you have some crop circles or chemical contrails to investigate?
 
silly gonzo,

you know things like that only happen if the clintons are involved.
icon12.gif
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by doctorgonzo:
This decapitation was supposed to be a retaliation for U.S. abuse of Iraqis in Abu Gharib prison. Oddly though, this video was supposed to have been made over two weeks ago when the pictures of U.S. abuse was only released last week. </font>
This is one sick post.
Who "supposes" that the video was shot two weekes ago?
What "is supposed" to have happened in the intervening two weeks? Have you ever seen a body that has been dead two weeks?
You are letting your partisan hatred of Bush seriously cloud your judgment, gonzo.
Better put on your aluminum foil beanie and beat feet for Area 51.
 
Gonzo,

Having lived in the area (Air Force Brat), I can tell you that there are Arabs that are Blonde-haired/Blue-eyed and very light skin. This kind of "justice" happens EVERY DAY over in those tribal countries.

I was thinking this evening about what happened. Remembering that this area of the world is where the Marines got their names "Leather Necks" fighting the Barbary Pirates of Tripoli (Libya today). And they got the name for wearing a band of leather around their neck so's not to loose their head.

We may be at one of those times in history, where the "New World Man" is going to define another region of the world. The last time was during the Conquest of the New World (Cortez and Company!) It wasn't guns that defeated the Aztecs. It was the fact that their traditional society was stagnate and that they were "on the wrong side of time." If you remember they actually pushed Cortez out of Tenochtitlan and he wept in defeat (La Noche Triste). However, the "New World Man" of that era was not bound to "traditions" as were the Aztecs. The Machiavellian thinking of that day rewarded initiative and cunning, which was not prevelent in Aztec society.

The United States is venturing into an area defined by the last pockets of Tribal societies that have not changed in hundreds and thousands of years. There are many Muslims that abhor such practices, so we can't really blame religion. I almost want to vote for Bush so that he can finish the job.

Peace!

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"Reading the world always precedes reading the word, and reading the word implies continually reading the world!" - Paulo Freire
 
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