Game Thread: SUPER BOWL LIX : Kansas City Chiefs vs Philadelphia Eagles (Fox @ 530pm CT)

[B1GTide]

And the only player drafted out of Alabama to ever score a touchdown in a Super Bowl. I think.

Given the number of Alabama players who have played in Super Bowls, that is crazy.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

 

[Cruloc]

The fleshy cowboy head was....gross. maybe that was the point though, to stick in your head about fleshy cowboy head.

But I have no idea what the commercial was for other than the gross fleshy cowboy head guy.

 

[81usaf92]

I think at this point you have to pump the brakes about Brady being surpassed by Mahomes especially if the whole point of making Brady the GOAT was because of his postseason results...

Brady:

SBs

I) Played okay and probably didnt deserve the MVP but I guess give it to him for getting them there
II) Played lights out and won
III) Played good and won
IV) Ran into a great Giants defense and made a late drive that should have won it but Rodney Harrison got suckered in on a pull it out of your butt play.
V) played well but again the defense couldnt end Eli on pulling a rabbit out of his butt
VI) Played great against a generational defense, and finally got a weird bounce go his way
VII) Probably his worst superbowl in some regards, but not many quarterbacks comeback from a 28-3 deficit. MVP should have probably gone to White but its hard to not give it to Brady as well.
VIII) Throws for 500+ yards and still loses
IX) Defensive slugfest, and Brady played pretty poorly. But was great when he needed to be.
X) Played great, won, and it was against Mahomes.


Mahomes

I) Played okay at best. Damien Willaims and Kyle Shannahan had far more to do with the outcome than Mahomes did
II) Played horribly, and basically was destroyed by the Bucs defense.
III) Played lights out in a classic
IV) Played poorly most of the game but again Captain Shannahan found a way to lose it
V) Played really really bad


Their records through 5 Superbowls are the same, but the difference is that Brady was far more consistently good in the big games than Mahomes with far less weaponry. I think the problem is that Mahomes doesnt do well against defenses that get two weeks to prepare for him like Brady did.

 

[B1GTide]

I think at this point you have to pump the brakes about Brady being surpassed by Mahomes especially if the whole point of making Brady the GOAT was because of his postseason results...

Brady:

SBs

I) Played okay and probably didnt deserve the MVP but I guess give it to him for getting them there
II) Played lights out and won
III) Played good and won
IV) Ran into a great Giants defense and made a late drive that should have won it but Rodney Harrison got suckered in on a pull it out of your butt play.
V) played well but again the defense couldnt end Eli on pulling a rabbit out of his butt
VI) Played great against a generational defense, and finally got a weird bounce go his way
VII) Probably his worst superbowl in some regards, but not many quarterbacks comeback from a 28-3 deficit. MVP should have probably gone to White but its hard to not give it to Brady as well.
VIII) Throws for 500+ yards and still loses
IX) Defensive slugfest, and Brady played pretty poorly. But was great when he needed to be.
X) Played great, won, and it was against Mahomes.


Mahomes

I) Played okay at best. Damien Willaims and Kyle Shannahan had far more to do with the outcome than Mahomes did
II) Played horribly, and basically was destroyed by the Bucs defense.
III) Played lights out in a classic
IV) Played poorly most of the game but again Captain Shannahan found a way to lose it
V) Played really really bad


Their records through 5 Superbowls are the same, but the difference is that Brady was far more consistently good in the big games than Mahomes with far less weaponry. I think the problem is that Mahomes doesnt do well against defenses that get two weeks to prepare for him like Brady did.

I agree with a lot of this, but Brady also never played behind an offensive line as poor as KC fielded this year in a SB season.

Both of the teams in the SB this year got there because of their defenses. The one with the better offensive line won. Not a surprising outcome, no matter who was playing QB.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Both Brady and Mahomes are 3-2 after five Super Bowls.

Both missed a shot at history (19-0, three-peat) in games where the opposing defense shut them down.

Both had SB wins against the Eagles.

Both threw pick sixes in the SB (Montana never threw one but apparently we overlooked him).

Brady’s ascendancy to the so-called goat included a decade between his tying Aikman and then tying Terry and Joe. But the clincher for Teaser Tom was winning with a different coach/team.

 

[81usaf92]

I agree with a lot of this, but Brady also never played behind an offensive line as poor as KC fielded this year in a SB season.

Both of the teams in the SB this year got there because of their defenses. The one with the better offensive line won. Not a surprising outcome, no matter who was playing QB.

Aside from the 2020 and 2004 team I don’t think Brady would’ve ever beaten that Philly team yesterday. But at the same time I don’t see him getting destroyed either. I think the under talked about part of Peyton and Brady’s game is that they constantly made adjustments with the flow of the game. Mahomes feels more like a guy that he and the Chiefs are just daring you to stop him every play because he is so talented. It’s like there really is only one plan the whole game and they are just waiting for the moment.

 

[pelleas]

On the last TD for the Eagles, as soon as Hurts dropped back, I knew it was to Slim. Same play as the UGA NC game

One can imagine that Jalen wishes he could have made the 2nd and 26 throw to Smitty to win the NC. One can imagine he even thinks that was his throw to make, if life was fair. Now, he has, and five yards longer. Just a little sweetness and justice on top of the many others in the game.

 

[81usaf92]

Both Brady and Mahomes are 3-2 after five Super Bowls.

Both missed a shot at history (19-0, three-peat) in games where the opposing defense shut them down.

Both had SB wins against the Eagles.

Both threw pick sixes in the SB (Montana never threw one but apparently we overlooked him).

Brady’s ascendancy to the so-called goat included a decade between his tying Aikman and then tying Terry and Joe. But the clincher for Teaser Tom was winning with a different coach/team.

The thing about it that Brady had 20 years that were consistently great. Mostly without elite offenses. I’m really trying to think of HOFers on his offense compared to those that are on Mahomes’s current run and aside from Randy Moss, Gronk, and Mike Evans I’m really drawing a blank. Mahomes already has Kelce, Tyreek, and Hopkins

 

[B1GTide]

One can imagine that Jalen wishes he could have made the 2nd and 26 throw to Smitty to win the NC. One can imagine he even thinks that was his throw to make, if life was fair. Now, he has, and five yards longer. Just a little sweetness and justice on top of the many others in the game.

Jalen was not capable of making that throw at that point in his football development. But getting benched helped get him where he is today. And I will always remember this afterward.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

The thing about it that Brady had 20 years that were consistently great. Mostly without elite offenses. I’m really trying to think of HOFers on his offense compared to those that are on Mahomes’s current run and aside from Randy Moss, Gronk, and Mike Evans I’m really drawing a blank. Mahomes already has Kelce, Tyreek, and Hopkins

To me the Mahomes GOAT talk has always been way waaaay premature.

He’s been great in the regular season for a short career so far and has won 3 SB’s despite not being ‘Great’ in those games except for brief moments.

Brady was Elite in Both the Regular seasons and Playoffs for basically 2 decades.

He’s the All-Time Leader for Passing yards and TDs for both the regular season and playoffs and then you add all the SB trophies and MVPs and it’s just an astonishingly phenomenal resume.

Mahomes has a LONG way to go to make it a legitimate debate.

 

[bravo6]

View attachment 49080

Who is in the bottom pic?

 

[DzynKingRTR]

To me the Mahomes GOAT talk has always been way waaaay premature.

He’s been great in the regular season for a short career so far and has won 3 SB’s despite not being ‘Great’ in those games except for brief moments.

Brady was Elite in Both the Regular seasons and Playoffs for basically 2 decades.

He’s the All-Time Leader for Passing yards and TDs for both the regular season and playoffs and then you add all the SB trophies and MVPs and it’s just an astonishingly phenomenal resume.

Mahomes has a LONG way to go to make it a legitimate debate.

Brady played for 20 years, Mahomes has only been a starter for 6/7 years. Any comparison is ludicrous. Having said that what Mahomes has done so far is very impressive. If anyone does't think so then they clearly are biased.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Not sure how they made it, KC goes 0-8 in the SEC.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Who is in the bottom pic?

Dak Prescott

 

[TideEngineer08]

Brady played for 20 years, Mahomes has only been a starter for 6/7 years. Any comparison is ludicrous. Having said that what Mahomes has done so far is very impressive. If anyone does't think so then they clearly are biased.

He could walk away today and be a 1st ballot hall of famer.

But I think the bigger story about the KC run is that Andy Reid has to be considered one of the greats now.

Mahommes has plenty of time to catch Brady but odds are astronomically against him anyway.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Any conversation that starts with the number of championship rings a player has is about as bad a starting place imaginable in any sport EXCEPT perhaps a starter in the NBA. Yes, the quarterback does touch the ball every play, but in general terms you're going to need a REALLY good quarterback to win more than one Super Bowl. I mean, if rings matter then why wasn't Bart Starr considered the greatest QB prior to Tom Brady? The man won five NFL championships in a 7-year span (and lost another infamous one in 1960). The name I always heard was Joe Montana, who certainly has a case.

But why did nobody EVER mention Starr as the greatest QB ever after he retired? The tale - very similar to the one we heard with Terry Bradshaw - was, "yeah, but anybody could win with all of those Hall of Famers on that team and Lombardi (or Noll) coaching." But Chuck Noll didn't do jack squat after that one round of phenomenal draft picks got old, and Lombardi only coached one year outside of Green Bay before his tragic early death from cancer. Washington improved by one game so whatever. It's like George Seifert or Jimmy Johnson or so many other guys - after their power run, they're not that good. (Andy Reid is quite an exception to this rule).

But it seems to me "won X Super Bowls" is a better CLOSING argument, a final point to make rather than "this one point settles the case." Jim Plunkett and Eli Manning were both mediocre quarterbacks in the NFL, Plunkett getting fired twice before his first win, getting benched in 1983 and then basically taking snaps because his poor replacement (Marc Wilson) got hurt. Plunkett had a really good half of a season in 1980 and Eli DID have a really good 2011 season.

But nobody would ever say Eli is a better QB than was Dan Marino, not anyone who should be taken seriously anyway.

Yet how is that any different than Montana 4 Mahomes 3?
It's the exact same argument.

I know we pick on Joe Namath, which is easy to do with modern eyes, but here's a counterargument in Broadway's favor - in his seven "full" seasons as a starter, Namath led the league in passing yardage THREE times and touchdowns ONCE. Namath was a phenomenal athlete who was undone by injuries, but he still managed to lead the league in passing yards with names out of a phone book except for Hall of Famer Don Maynard. Let's face it, Namath is largely in the HOF due to perhaps the most famous win in NFL history, but the Eli Manning clique tries to argue "but Namath," ignoring the fact Eli never led the league in passing yards 3 times.

And btw - Namath's 4007 yards in 1968 beat EIGHT SEASONS of Eli's passing yardage despite the fact he played TWO FEWER GAMES.

But for simpletons it's easy: Eli 2, Namath 1, therefore, Eli better.

Don't get me wrong: Tom Brady is PROBABLY the greatest QB ever. He would be my candidate.
But is he?

Put him on the late 1980s Broncos and give Elway Brady's time frame and teams, and who wins more rings? I'm not saying this is OBVIOUS, but it's still relevant. Or what if you trade Peyton Manning and Tom across the same years?

As for Mahomes, who is incredibly likeable, I'm not certain he's been better the last several years than Lamar or Allen - or even Joe Burrow in the years he's played - but the simplistic view ("but he won the ring") prevails.

 

[rtr90]

The thing about it that Brady had 20 years that were consistently great. Mostly without elite offenses. I’m really trying to think of HOFers on his offense compared to those that are on Mahomes’s current run and aside from Randy Moss, Gronk, and Mike Evans I’m really drawing a blank. Mahomes already has Kelce, Tyreek, and Hopkins

and the receivers Belichick got him. Mostly 6/7th rounders

 

[rtr90]

playing for 20 years itself makes him GOAT .. it can never be replicated

 

[DzynKingRTR]

playing for 20 years itself makes him GOAT .. it can never be replicated

it was replicated. George Blanda and Jerey Rice both played over 20 years