The Alabama Gambling debate

[bamacon]

Amen. :hurray:

I second that AMEN!!!

 

[gmart74]

I second that AMEN!!!

and the congregation proceeded to rise up and in one thunderous voice yelled, "AMEN!!!!!!!!"

 

[Bama Reb]

I've said on numerous occasions, and on this thread, that I don't gamble. Most of the reasons I've given in the past more or less imply that I don't have very good intuition or luck.
That's not the real reason though. The real reason is because I am a professional arcade games technician and I've been working on this type of game since the development of their predecessors (8-Liners, Cherry Masters and other Video Pokers) over 20 years ago. I know these games inside and out, from top to bottom and front to back. I have built, torn down and rebuilt, serviced, repaired, programmed and reprogrammed these games for as long as they've been in existence. I can take any of these games into my shop, tear it down and rebuild it into a totally different game. When I'm finished a few hours later it will look like it came from a manufacturers assembly line.
So I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Anytime someone builds or buys a game like this and stands it up against a wall to challenge the world, you don't want any part of it. Those games, and the folks who operate them, know a whole lot more about taking your money than you know about gambling it away. There are things about these games that would shock even the most ardent gambling proponent. Let it suffice to say that when you put your money in these machines, you don't stand a chance. Yes, from time to time you win back a little of what you've lost, but that's what they're programmed to do. They're preset to pay out a little at a time as a 'hook' to either keep the player there or make them come back. Like a computer, these games do exactly what they're programmed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.
There is a 'dynamic percentage' programmed into each of these games which controls how much of each dollar taken in will be returned to the player. For every $1 you win, either you, or someone else, lost $5, $10, $20, or more. They aren't built to give out money like it's Christmas, folks. They're built to take money, and they do that very, very well.
They pay out a little here, and a little there, and fool the players to thinking they're not losing so much. In the end though, the players find much to their shock and dismay that they've just blown an entire paycheck, or bank account. It steals paychecks, destroys reputations and families and even sometimes lives. And it just stands there with it's lights flashing and music playing, laughing at it's newest victim.
"Hey! You just took my money! That was my rent. I worked for that money. I needed that! What's my wife going to say now? It's not fair! Give me my money back!"
I'm not trying to discourage anyone here from gambling on these games because I really don't care one way or the other. You can put your money in them if you want. It's not my money, or my life. I don't really care.
Now as a general rule I'm usually the last one in the world to give others advice. But just this once, let me offer you this one little nugget. If you're hell-bent on going to one of these casinos to gamble, do yourself a favor and take only what you can afford, and are willing, to lose. Call it the price of entertainment. But leave what you can't afford to lose locked up at home. Don't even put it in the bank, so you won't be tempted to grab your credit or debit card.
I don't put my money in these games because they're not 'games' at all. They're thieves. What's worse, they're the worst kind of thief you'll ever meet, because they just stand there while you bring your money to them.

 

[JAXFLBAMAFAN]

i am always amazed that people are so concerned about poor people not being capable of making rational choices with their money so they force rules on the rest of us. however these same benevolent overlords will argue just as vehemently that these poor people who cant manage their own dollar are qualified to have children. either they are not responsible for themselves and need to be protected from themselves or they are free men capable of making choices for themselves. make a choice and stick to it.

hammer meet nail. well said

 

[Bama323]

I've said on numerous occasions, and on this thread, that I don't gamble. Most of the reasons I've given in the past more or less imply that I don't have very good intuition or luck.
That's not the real reason though. The real reason is because I am a professional arcade games technician and I've been working on this type of game since the development of their predecessors (8-Liners, Cherry Masters and other Video Pokers) over 20 years ago. I know these games inside and out, from top to bottom and front to back. I have built, torn down and rebuilt, serviced, repaired, programmed and reprogrammed these games for as long as they've been in existence. I can take any of these games into my shop, tear it down and rebuild it into a totally different game. When I'm finished a few hours later it will look like it came from a manufacturers assembly line.
So I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Anytime someone builds or buys a game like this and stands it up against a wall to challenge the world, you don't want any part of it. Those games, and the folks who operate them, know a whole lot more about taking your money than you know about gambling it away. There are things about these games that would shock even the most ardent gambling proponent. Let it suffice to say that when you put your money in these machines, you don't stand a chance. Yes, from time to time you win back a little of what you've lost, but that's what they're programmed to do. They're preset to pay out a little at a time as a 'hook' to either keep the player there or make them come back. Like a computer, these games do exactly what they're programmed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.
There is a 'dynamic percentage' programmed into each of these games which controls how much of each dollar taken in will be returned to the player. For every $1 you win, either you, or someone else, lost $5, $10, $20, or more. They aren't built to give out money like it's Christmas, folks. They're built to take money, and they do that very, very well.
They pay out a little here, and a little there, and fool the players to thinking they're not losing so much. In the end though, the players find much to their shock and dismay that they've just blown an entire paycheck, or bank account. It steals paychecks, destroys reputations and families and even sometimes lives. And it just stands there with it's lights flashing and music playing, laughing at it's newest victim.
"Hey! You just took my money! That was my rent. I worked for that money. I needed that! What's my wife going to say now? It's not fair! Give me my money back!"
I'm not trying to discourage anyone here from gambling on these games because I really don't care one way or the other. You can put your money in them if you want. It's not my money, or my life. I don't really care.
Now as a general rule I'm usually the last one in the world to give others advice. But just this once, let me offer you this one little nugget. If you're hell-bent on going to one of these casinos to gamble, do yourself a favor and take only what you can afford, and are willing, to lose. Call it the price of entertainment. But leave what you can't afford to lose locked up at home. Don't even put it in the bank, so you won't be tempted to grab your credit or debit card.
I don't put my money in these games because they're not 'games' at all. They're thieves. What's worse, they're the worst kind of thief you'll ever meet, because they just stand there while you bring your money to them.

Is it true that these machines are actually time travelling devices? According to some people here, the machines transport people directly into the 21st century...:wink:

 

[Bama Reb]

Is it true that these machines are actually time travelling devices? According to some people here, the machines transport people directly into the 21st century...:wink:

Yes, but it's not what you think. They transport people and their entire lifestyles backwards, sometimes back as far as the Stone Age. :wink:

 

[Bodhisattva]

The only problem I have with gambling are the state-run aspects of it (e.g. lotteries). My frame of reference are all the advertisements I see in this area encouraging people to play the lottery. The state should not be encouraging its citizens to make unwise financial choices. Taxes and regulations do enough damage.

 

[Bama Reb]

The only problem I have with gambling are the state-run aspects of it (e.g. lotteries). My frame of reference are all the advertisements I see in this area encouraging people to play the lottery. The state should not be encouraging its citizens to make unwise financial choices. Taxes and regulations do enough damage.

South Carolina is a perfect example of this. This exact same debate over 'gambling devices' was going on in SC when I lived there in the early 90's. At first, the operators ran their games in stores on every street corner in the state. Then the state started putting restrictions on how many games could be placed in each establishments. Next came drastic increases in licensing fees, the length of time for which each license must be purchased and even further restrictions controlling who could or couldn't place games in establishments. Eventually the operators got together and instituted a class action suit to protect their interests.
The State Supreme Court got in on the act and declared the entire industry unconstitutional. They gave the operators a few short months to remove all their games from every establishment statewide. In addition, the mere possession of these games, even in operator's own warehouses, became a felony and punishable by huge fines and prison confinement. I know a particular operator who was arrested and eventually lost both his business and home, and barely escaped spending years in prison just because he had a warehouse full of the games he owned and had picked up from locations across the state.
Immediately afterward, they instituted a state-run lottery which the state is pushing even today.
South Carolina didn't institute any 'moral changes'. That had nothing to do with it. They just wanted the gambling receipts for themselves.

 

[RamJamHam]

I despise these "We're just looking out for you" laws. It is not the government's business whether or not you or I blow a 2 weeks paycheck at a casino. If someone is that stupid, the absence of a casino is no going to stop them from screwing up their lives, it just changes the way they screw it up. I also want to go shopping on Sundays, buy alcohol on Sundays (buy alcohol at all without going McLovin on the cashier, actually), own a gun, etc. It really ticks me off when some uber Baptist politician thinks it is his job to force his interpretation of Isaiah somethinsomethin on the rest of the population, or some godless liberal hippy thinks it is his/her job to ban weapons for the safely of the Citizen. What business is it of the state or Bertha Better Than You down the street if you smoke a pack of fags an hour, why should they be taxed out the wazoo? I know it doesn't go to healthcare costs for lung cancer!

I don't care what it is, the government shouldn't regulate morality of a personal nature (as apposed to stuff like murder and burglary). This BS needs to end. See bellow... :rolleye2:

While I understand your point, these are not "looking out for me" laws under our current system. The state is looking out for itself. If Joe Blow exercises his fundamental right to spend his whole paycheck in a casino, on bingo, or playing craps in the alley, the result is that he will attempt to get state assistance. Which again foists his problem on me.

I agree with gmart in that if people want to do whatever they want to do, fine, just don't ask me to pick up the tab. For example, if procreation is a fundamental right, which it is until the SCOTUS says it isn't, then being able to care for your procreation is a fundamental responsibility. If you have the right to create them, then you have the responsibility to take care of them without my help. It's only fair. Think about the Octomom.

I agree with gmart that you can't be a little incompetent; either you are able to make your decisions and face the consequences, good or bad, like most of us have to do, or you are an imbecile who can't be trusted to make your own decisions who should allow himself or herself to be managed by the state and paid accordingly.

As for cigarettes being taxed "out the wazoo," that (along with taxes on alcohol and gasoline) have much more to do with the inelasticity of demand for those products (hence a stable revenue source) than any moral belief.

 

[TommyMac]

Is it true that these machines are actually time travelling devices? According to some people here, the machines transport people directly into the 21st century...:wink:

Evidently the message in my statement flew right over your head.

 

[Bama Reb]

Evidently the message in my statement flew right over your head.

Evidently so. I thought you were being facetious. If you were trying to send a message, I wish you'd fly it a little lower.

 

[Bama323]

Evidently the message in my statement flew right over your head.

Well, evidently mine flew over yours as well. I even used a little blue winking smilie...

 

[Bama323]

Update: Legalized electronic bingo bill falters in Senate vote...

Updated: Legalized electronic bingo bill falters in Alabama Senate vote | al.com

Thank goodness we have some members in the Senate that could see this bill for what it really is:

But Sen. Jabbo Waggoner, R Vestavia Hills, said the proposal was flawed. Partly because it created monopolies for big gambling executives. "It was a sorry bill," Waggoner said.

Whether or not you are for against the legalization of gambling is not the issue here. The fact of the matter is that this was a terrible bill that put the power into the hands of a very few people who would have reaped most of the benefits. If you are pro-gambling, you may criticize this action, but the truth is Alabama deserves a much better bill than this if we are going to decide to legalize gambling in this state.

 

[bamacon]

Whether or not you are for against the legalization of gambling is not the issue here. The fact of the matter is that this was a terrible bill that put the power into the hands of a very few people who would have reaped most of the benefits. If you are pro-gambling, you may criticize this action, but the truth is Alabama deserves a much better bill than this if we are going to decide to legalize gambling in this state.

Agreed. From what I've read this would kill any chance at getting casino gambling into the state, and it would destroy the smaller operations. Personally I think it should be all or nothing and the citizens should decide the matter.

 

[CrimsonProf]

A link worth reading.

Gambling with Lives | First Things

 

[CrimsonProf]

I despise these "We're just looking out for you" laws. It is not the government's business whether or not you or I blow a 2 weeks paycheck at a casino. If someone is that stupid, the absence of a casino is no going to stop them from screwing up their lives, it just changes the way they screw it up. I also want to go shopping on Sundays, buy alcohol on Sundays (buy alcohol at all without going McLovin on the cashier, actually), own a gun, etc. It really ticks me off when some uber Baptist politician thinks it is his job to force his interpretation of Isaiah somethinsomethin on the rest of the population, or some godless liberal hippy thinks it is his/her job to ban weapons for the safely of the Citizen. What business is it of the state or Bertha Better Than You down the street if you smoke a pack of fags an hour, why should they be taxed out the wazoo? I know it doesn't go to healthcare costs for lung cancer!

I don't care what it is, the government shouldn't regulate morality of a personal nature (as apposed to stuff like murder and burglary). This BS needs to end. See bellow... :rolleye2:

I don't have time to get bogged down in a deep discussion but here's a thought or two.

It is not the government's business if I blow my family's money on junk. It becomes the government's business if I and one thousand of my neighbors out on highway 78 or down in Dothan blow our paychecks in such a way that the surrounding community experiences a sharp increase in divorce, bankruptcy, theft, prostitution, predatory lending, child abuse and drug use. These places don't operate in a vaccuum - there are always social consequences. And these consequences are too great to use gambling as a (dubious) source of government revenue.

 

[bamacon]

And these consequences are too great to use gambling as a (dubious) source of government revenue.

like property values...

 

[RammerJammer14]

I don't have time to get bogged down in a deep discussion but here's a thought or two.

It is not the government's business if I blow my family's money on junk. It becomes the government's business if I and one thousand of my neighbors out on highway 78 or down in Dothan blow our paychecks in such a way that the surrounding community experiences a sharp increase in divorce, bankruptcy, theft, prostitution, predatory lending, child abuse and drug use. These places don't operate in a vaccuum - there are always social consequences. And these consequences are too great to use gambling as a (dubious) source of government revenue.

What? I am sorry, but this argument makes no sense to me. By this reasoning, everthing we do could be considered illegal. If you drink too much wiskey and become an alchoholic, you can destroy your family, and if everyone became an alcoholic, they whole community would go under. Therefore, alcohol should be illegal. If everyone in Tuscaloosa spent their entire paycheck on speedboats, they would all be backrupt and living in Lake Tuscaloosa. Therefore, speedboats should be illegal.

My only hesitation on this issue is in the case of drugs such as heroin. I am not an expert on drugs, but I am pretty sure that heroin and other Class I&II drugs are instantly addicting. As in, if you shoot up on heroin, it is imposssible to resist the urge to do it again and again. Only an outside force that deprives you of the drug can cure you (Anyone in the know, is this right?). If this is the case, then these drugs should be illegal. If not, legalize them. Heck, I might be for legalizing them if they are insta-addicting. It was still a choice to shoot up in the first place.

Ya'll act like a casino and available gambling automatically results in mindless spending of money, finacial ruin, prostitition, etc etc. This is bogus, and a shameless scare tactic. I have played poker for money before. Trust me, I am still sane and I still have a paycheck...

 

[GPSnakeHandler]

Ya'll act like a casino and available gambling automatically results in mindless spending of money, finacial ruin, prostitition, etc etc. This is bogus, and a shameless scare tactic. I have played poker for money before. Trust me, I am still sane and I still have a paycheck...

You obviously had not driven through Walker County on 78 between Jasper and Sumiton or any rural stretch of road in the County. Those places were packed 24/7 until they were forced to operate 24/6. People were being hosed left and right.

BTW, I have no problem with gambling. Going down to NOLA this weekend to lose some money, but I will vote No on any ballot that does not include regulated casinos in the state. If it's only slot (I'm sorry Bingo) machines.... no thanks.

 

[CrimsonProf]

You obviously had not driven through Walker County on 78 between Jasper and Sumiton or any rural stretch of road in the County. Those places were packed 24/7 until they were forced to operate 24/6. People were being hosed left and right.

BTW, I have no problem with gambling. Going down to NOLA this weekend to lose some money, but I will vote No on any ballot that does not include regulated casinos in the state. If it's only slot (I'm sorry Bingo) machines.... no thanks.

This.

I'll lay my cards on the table (ha!), and say that I oppose any legalized gambling. However, there is a clear difference between a casino with blackjack and poker, and then these weird electronic slots in Jasper and Fairfield. The rates of addiction to electronic slots are far higher than with poker or other cards. The very design of the building is seductive. Walker County was a dump before bingo, and bingo only made it worse. I know the SHA plan won't allow it there, but it's going to do the same damn thing to Houston County. Been to Kemper County, MS? The Silver Star has been a huge drag on the local economy. Yes, there are more tax dollars, but no one is producing anything, and any economists who isn't attached to a government nipple with assert that non-producing jobs aren't worth anything.

Read this:

Gambling with Lives | First Things


And Snakehandler - had Fatso a while back. Sweet Moses.