The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse I

CrimsonJazz

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This. Which is why I withheld my vote both times...
Do you get the feeling that you will never vote again? I don't see an out where things actually get better. The Republicans no longer have that perceived "moral high ground" they've always enjoyed. (And do note that I said "perceived." I don't really believe Reps have had actual moral high ground, at least not since the civil war.) They lost that on J6 when they decided to show up at the Capitol and behave like....well, like Democrats. I'm not sure their transmission even has a reverse gear.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Do you get the feeling that you will never vote again? I don't see an out where things actually get better. The Republicans no longer have that perceived "moral high ground" they've always enjoyed. (And do note that I said "perceived." I don't really believe Reps have had actual moral high ground, at least not since the civil war.) They lost that on J6 when they decided to show up at the Capitol and behave like....well, like Democrats. I'm not sure their transmission even has a reverse gear.
The country is in a "phase" right now.

I don't personally think Trumpism is sustainable post-Trump. I suspect Vance or someone else will decide the way to get elected is to act like the biggest jerk possible, lose, and then claim the Democrats stole the election - and then when prosecuted for the riot you cause, claim it's "imprisoning political opponents."

If they shatter the economy, President AOC will get her chance to be FDR. And then watch a bunch of them suddenly rediscover honesty in government and nobody is above the law and separation of powers and all that other stuff they once (sort of) practiced.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Do you get the feeling that you will never vote again? I don't see an out where things actually get better. The Republicans no longer have that perceived "moral high ground" they've always enjoyed. (And do note that I said "perceived." I don't really believe Reps have had actual moral high ground, at least not since the civil war.) They lost that on J6 when they decided to show up at the Capitol and behave like....well, like Democrats. I'm not sure their transmission even has a reverse gear.
I think I will, but I knew it would not be until Trump was not the candidate. Things go in cycles and if you live long enough you'll see it. Heck, even at "just" 49 years old, I've now lived long enough to see things go out of style and come back in, and cultures truly change and shift and come back around, etc.
 

CrimsonJazz

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The country is in a "phase" right now.

I don't personally think Trumpism is sustainable post-Trump. I suspect Vance or someone else will decide the way to get elected is to act like the biggest jerk possible, lose, and then claim the Democrats stole the election - and then when prosecuted for the riot you cause, claim it's "imprisoning political opponents."

If they shatter the economy, President AOC will get her chance to be FDR. And then watch a bunch of them suddenly rediscover honesty in government and nobody is above the law and separation of powers and all that other stuff they once (sort of) practiced.
The only part of this I see possibly happening is someone in the Republican party attempting to match Trumps energy and ego, only to realize how foolish they look and sound. There's only one Trump (thank God) and the sooner the potential candidates for 2028 come to terms with this, the better off they will be. I don't see the Dems recovering in time for 2028, but if Republicans dial back the clock and put someone like Haley in the WH, 2032 will be a slam dunk, whether it's AOC or some bum they drag in off the street.
 

CrimsonJazz

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I think I will, but I knew it would not be until Trump was not the candidate. Things go in cycles and if you live long enough you'll see it. Heck, even at "just" 49 years old, I've now lived long enough to see things go out of style and come back in, and cultures truly change and shift and come back around, etc.
Yep, I'm 50 and our history is a fascinating one. I figured we would never see a swing back to the right as massive as the one when Reagan was elected and even though there clearly are differences, the Trump movement has come close. Nowadays it gets called extremism, but that doesn't really resonate with me. When I think of the middle, all I envision is a bunch of lazy do-nothings who simply take turns occupying positions of power to maintain the illusion of choice while they continue their grift and continue to support the people they truly are beholden to (and it ain't the voters.) It makes one feel like we are doomed either way.
 

TIDE-HSV

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The country is in a "phase" right now.

I don't personally think Trumpism is sustainable post-Trump. I suspect Vance or someone else will decide the way to get elected is to act like the biggest jerk possible, lose, and then claim the Democrats stole the election - and then when prosecuted for the riot you cause, claim it's "imprisoning political opponents."

If they shatter the economy, President AOC will get her chance to be FDR. And then watch a bunch of them suddenly rediscover honesty in government and nobody is above the law and separation of powers and all that other stuff they once (sort of) practiced.
I tend to agree. Looking back, we've had JFK and FDR as predecessors. Only FDR made a permanent imprint, but he had a clear vision of policy. When you try to define "Trumpism," you find it changed while you were in the process. The only constants are the same as George Wallace's and not very pretty. For some reason, a third of the electorate finds it compelling and another 16% can temporarily delude themselves. Even Hitler had some real grievances to play off of. Trump makes them up and folk just adopt them and go along. I wonder how far Wallace would have gone, without the taints of the accent and saying the ugly parts out loud...
 

TIDE-HSV

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The country is in a "phase" right now.

I don't personally think Trumpism is sustainable post-Trump. I suspect Vance or someone else will decide the way to get elected is to act like the biggest jerk possible, lose, and then claim the Democrats stole the election - and then when prosecuted for the riot you cause, claim it's "imprisoning political opponents."

If they shatter the economy, President AOC will get her chance to be FDR. And then watch a bunch of them suddenly rediscover honesty in government and nobody is above the law and separation of powers and all that other stuff they once (sort of) practiced.
I tend to agree. Looking back, we've had JFK and FDR as predecessors. Only FDR made a permanent imprint, but he had a clear vision of policy. When you try to define "Trumpism," you find it changed while you were in the process. The only constants are the same as George Wallace's and not very pretty. For some reason, a third of the electorate finds it compelling and another 16% can temporarily delude themselves. Even Hitler had some real grievances to play off of. Trump makes them up and folk just adopt them and go along. I wonder how far Wallace would have gone, without the taints of the accent and saying the ugly parts out loud...
 
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cdub55

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I think I will, but I knew it would not be until Trump was not the candidate. Things go in cycles and if you live long enough you'll see it. Heck, even at "just" 49 years old, I've now lived long enough to see things go out of style and come back in, and cultures truly change and shift and come back around, etc.
As an educator in public schools I have bad news for you...
 
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CrimsonJazz

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Based on how you described yourself I thought you were in your mid 60's-70's. I'm not too far behind you and with this new found knowledge am starting to make noises as I get out of the recliner...
It's not the years, it's the mileage. I've been through things that would have broken a lesser man and it has aged me considerably. If I sound like a grouchy old curmudgeon, it's only because I am one. :cool:
 
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Its On A Slab

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Do you get the feeling that you will never vote again? I don't see an out where things actually get better. The Republicans no longer have that perceived "moral high ground" they've always enjoyed. (And do note that I said "perceived." I don't really believe Reps have had actual moral high ground, at least not since the civil war.) They lost that on J6 when they decided to show up at the Capitol and behave like....well, like Democrats. I'm not sure their transmission even has a reverse gear.
I remember thinking Republicans(well, Democrats as well) had the moral high ground after September 11th.

Of course, Shrub used that to start a military conflict in Iraq that carried on for over 8 years, and an extended morass in Afghanistan.
 

cdub55

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It's not the years, it's the mileage. I've been through things that would have broken a lesser man and it has aged me considerably. If I sound like a grouchy old curmudgeon, it's only because I am one. :cool:
It isn't your tone but you have made statements entailing your "oldness". We should compare notes sometime, preferably over bourbon, and see who has dodged the grim reaper the most times over the years...
 
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CrimsonJazz

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It isn't your tone but you have made statements entailing your "oldness". We should compare notes sometime, preferably over bourbon, and see who has dodged the grim reaper the most times over the years...
Put it like this, I'm 50, look like I'm 60, drive like I'm 70 and feel like I'm 80. And that sounds awesome, mate. I've got a hum-dinger of a story about how a friend of mine once shot me in the ass with a 410 loaded with birdshot. You'll think I'm making it up.
 

cdub55

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Yeah, my wife's been an educator for almost 30 years. I know what's coming down the pike, but it's not very promising. I'm laughing out loud!
Combine bad attitudes, laziness, entitlement, and lack of empathy towards others and you have pretty much nailed 30-80% of the up and coming (or maybe down and coming is more appropriate) population depending on what city you are blessed to visit. The things that our country was built on (hard work, values, and sticktoitiveness) have not been engrained in this generation. As an old coach once said, "that boy got a lot of quit in him".
 

Bamabuzzard

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Combine bad attitudes, laziness, entitlement, and lack of empathy towards others and you have pretty much nailed 30-80% of the up and coming (or maybe down and coming is more appropriate) population depending on what city you are blessed to visit. The things that our country was built on (hard work, values, and sticktoitiveness) have not been engrained in this generation. As an old coach once said, "that boy got a lot of quit in him".
Yeah, our advancements as a society have created a lazy and entitled people. Easy times create soft people, and tough times create tough people.
 
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cdub55

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Yeah, our advancements as a society have created a lazy and entitled people. Easy times create soft people, and tough times create tough people.
Boils down to parents. You can live a life with all the amenities but still set your child up for success. Unfortunately the majority of parents aren't parenting anymore. It takes time, patience, work, etc to be a good parent and they would rather not. Hand the kiddo an ipad and as long as they are out of their hair they are good. I wish I could be optimistic but it is hard to be when I see the lack of basic ability to read or communicate from so many kids these days.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I tend to agree. Looking back, we've had JFK and FDR as predecessors. Only FDR made a permanent imprint, but he had a clear vision of policy.
And what's going to be the problem for any President is that FDR had 69 Senate seats after the 1934 midterms, increasing to 75 after the 1936 election. Even the biggest economic cataclysm since the Depression isn't likely to give the Democrats 60 seats in the Senate to choke off the filibuster.

It's not accident that generally considered the two greatest "Presidents of action" had substantial majorities that couldn't be impeded (Lincoln when the south seceded, FDR due to the Depression). I don't believe anyone has had more than 57 Senate seats since Carter.

When you try to define "Trumpism," you find it changed while you were in the process. The only constants are the same as George Wallace's and not very pretty. For some reason, a third of the electorate finds it compelling and another 16% can temporarily delude themselves. Even Hitler had some real grievances to play off of. Trump makes them up and folk just adopt them and go along.
This is also true. The depths people sink to defend something he said that is OBVIOUSLY a lie....I mean, I thought I'd seen it all with goalpost moving in the early Clinton years, but a number of those voters would not endorse Gore for the office after the second term impeachment debacle, either. So there WAS a payback to some degree. I watched person after person insist they actually believed Clinton was going to pass a middle class tax cut he never had any intention of pursuing, then blaming "12 years of Republican deficits" for the tax increase they suddenly insisted they always knew was coming, defended lie after lie after lie he told (and yes - by comparison with Trump his were mild), went with "he's got immunity unless he commits a crime in office" and then went with "an affair is no problem just as long as he didn't commit a crime like perjury" and then went with "well, you'd lie, too, if you were asked the question."

And no, it's not "okay". I mean let's face it, a substantial people who voted for Clinton in 1992 are in the graveyard now, so it's not even the same crowd (55 of the Senators the day Clinton took office are dead and the only ones still in office are Patty Murray, Mitch McConnell, and Chuck Grassley).

I wonder how far Wallace would have gone, without the taints of the accent and saying the ugly parts out loud...
That's a good question I've often wondered. On the other hand, Wallace was far more flexible at his politics than Trump was, too. He'd rant something racist, it would be declared illegal or settled or whatever, and he'd soften it; Trump goes hard and loud regardless.
 

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