Maybe this will go nowhere, which is fine, but UAH (and some others) brought up a good point that I think is worthy of serious discussion, and it really (technically) doesn't belong in the Trump War thread. So I'll share a few of the posts here, and maybe we can continue. (Yes, I'll get to mine later maybe).
As a reminder to everyone, my mind is hardly made up on this subject. Indeed - as I've stated - I MYSELF HAVE SAID SUCH THINGS, so nobody should think this is me calling out anyone or playing self-appointed corrector. It may be a way to bring out further points, both good and bad, because it may be a case of depending upon which data one culls, it determines the outcome.
To many of us it is obvious that the US has been in a long term decline at least from Vietnam onward. The reason a Trump could be elected in the first place is the wide spread decline in the standard of living of the working class. Now we have accelerated that decline to include much of the middle class. To the degree that many well educated young people, including my own, question bringing children into this world. It is very sad to see it come to this.
I'm honestly not trying to pick apart your point here - and believe me, it's a popular belief or talking point or even (if you will) truth, but I'm curious as to what is meant by this. I know (for example) I heard it in church in the 1980s (especially), and it's also a claim of groups like the Tea Party AND Occupy Wall Street. But I'm not sure I agree with it, depending on what is meant by it. I'll even be intellectually honest about it and say I said it for years, but I'm just not convinced any longer that there's anything substantive to actually back it up. I wonder - and I'm talking to myself as much as anyone at this point - if it's more nostalgia than reality.
But I'm not sure why people actually think this, either. I know we can all put up a chart, I guess, to prove any point we want, but I don't think there's any comparison in living standards between 1975 and today that would suggest any of us want to go back to that. Yes, healthcare and college are more expensive - but on the whole (barring bumps like the Covid money print inflation period), everything else is less.
To begin with - not one of us had a $1200 I phone in 1975, which is pretty standard for anyone over about the age of 11 nowadays. Plus, the same chart that shows "middle class peaked in 1971" also shows its because more have moved UP and there are fewer in the bottom, but nobody ever wants to talk about that one.
I think Donald Trump got elected due to the simple fact America has done SO WELL that we have ceased (if we ever did) to take our Presidential elections (and others, too) SERIOUSLY. Honestly, who in their right minds can think with any rational thought, "You know, I think the born to a rich guy casino owner paper billionaire can relate to my struggles to meet a paycheck more than anyone else"?
Trump is the obvious end result of the modern primary system that closes off 80% of the electorate from choosing the nominees, voter anger at both parties (he wasn't seen at first as an actual Republican), and running against the one nominee with almost as much baggage as he had - enough anyway to see it as "they're both pompous New York-based elitists so".....
Again, I don't know. I, too, have a child and definitely am worried about his future or lack thereof.
But the part I'm not certain about is that this is any different than previously - except for the fact we're all interconnected.
I apologize if this comes off as preachy, I think we've interacted enough you know that's not my intent. But I'm curious as to what is meant.
That America has a larger - and yes, unsustainable deficit we must address - is agreed.
But why that is - largely - is because of taking care of more people who live longer, too. The right likes to make foreign aid and alleged benefits paid to illegals the bogeyman, but that's a mere drop in the bucket. The left likes to target the defense budget, but it still has nothing on entitlement programs, which upsets people when you use the word entitlement. And we could cut the defense budget to zero tomorrow - and we'd still have an insane amount of deficit and continuing debt.
We have more people living longer than ever before with better access to healthcare along with less poverty; yes, there's been a slight dip in life expectancy due to the run through from Covid. We have more air conditioning, ability to travel, access to music/arts/etc, and reasons to feel happy and blessed.
(Note: one of the things that has to be admitted happened is that prior to 1971, we are talking ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY of a white, male middle class. And what did happen was the spreading out of benefits to (for example) blacks and women, who became shareholders in the "rags to comfort not riches" aspect of the American Dream.
I'm not saying we have no problems. In fact, I'm not even disagreeing with you, I'm just curious because I hear it a lot.
Your comments are always spot on, and I appreciate that you can present the conservative argument so well and sensibly.
Little time to respond as I have to get to the office, but talking to my kids and their generation's perspective and just reading broadly... I don't think it is so much that we've declined horribly, but the rest of the world has caught up some, and it seems like we have been hiking a rocky trail and may fall off the cliff if we aren't very careful... And I just don't see the wisdom of our political leaders being enough to carry us through, particularly with the current admin's grift and incompetence.
Inflation, spiraling debt, increasing authoritarianism, billionaires who think they should be royalty, the Feds ceding multiple large industries to China, damage to our international rep... Lots going on right now. And a job market that is tougher than appreciated with spiraling housing costs. Plenty of good stuff, but we will have tough choices ahead as we always do.
As a reminder to everyone, my mind is hardly made up on this subject. Indeed - as I've stated - I MYSELF HAVE SAID SUCH THINGS, so nobody should think this is me calling out anyone or playing self-appointed corrector. It may be a way to bring out further points, both good and bad, because it may be a case of depending upon which data one culls, it determines the outcome.


