And to underscore the weirdness, centrists are literally giving them the step-by-step on how to get back to winning elections and it just makes so many of them mad. This is identity politics gone berserk.
The Democratic Party is at a Crossroads
- Thread starter 81usaf92
- Start date
Democrats lost because of the economy and, to a much lesser degree, immigration. If Trump had been in office the past four years, the economic situation most likely wouldn't have been any better, so the GOP would have lost. Peripheral issues like gender identity and CRT didn't give Trump any votes that weren't already coming his way. Neither party does more than pay lip service to the deficit and supporting Ukraine is definitely not the same as wanting war with Russia.
The typical voter (read: moderate, middle-class American) doesn't see the Democrats as a party of weirdos and Communists any more than they see the GOP as one of insane fascists and racists. They want a government that gives them the best chance to support their family. Right now (for a thin majority of voters), that's not the Democrats. Trump wasn't an answer, but he was the only alternative.
Trump did better with Hispanics this time. Immigration was at least as big an issue with them as the economy.
Indeed, that is true. Your problem is not that most of your peeps are a bunch of nuts, it's that the nuts you do have are extremely loud and tend to get most of the press coverage. As faith in the press continues to plummet into the depths of hell where it belongs, more and more people are turning to independent media and learning just how much they didn't know.
The whole gender issue would be a non-issue except for one thing and that is the encroachment of it in our education system and to a larger degree, in the entertainment industry. Yes, more and more people are pushing back against it for this reason. The average person could care less what some 30 year-old dresses up as, but he or she cares a great deal when they feel like indoctrination is being pushed onto their kids (as well they should.) I wouldn't want some fundamentalist in a classroom attempting this on my kids; why should I feel differently about the blue-hairs? Like it or not, the numbers are changing and while I can't buy the notion that it is the sole reason for the election outcome, it did contribute. Why?
I think of it as the ideological scale. Most people are like me (I think.) There are many issues I have liberal views of and there are issues I have conservative views of. I hate the whole left-right paradigm, but that is what is forced on us by a complicit and corrupted election system, so I have to go with that for the purposes of this post. Whichever side is heaviest on the scale is the direction we vote for. The scales tips and changes as the years go by and the parties make subtle (and not so subtle) changes and social conventions evolve. I think Dems raced a bit too far ahead of themselves and now they need to dial it back.
Again, I'm referring to the party at-large; not individuals such as yourself. I said elsewhere in this thread that it's time for the Dems to reign in the loud nutbags and take their party back and it starts with finding the reasonable and logical dems who don't reduce themselves into pearl-clutching hysterics the very nanosecond they hear an opinion they don't like. There are plenty of these people left in your party, but they have been bullied into silence. Fix this issue and I think you might be surprised how many of your problems fix themselves.
Immigration was important, but the economy trumped all other issues.
unidosus.org
“The most potent driver in the election was economic discontent, expressed in President-elect Donald Trump’s gains with most demographics. If there is a mandate, it’s on that: raise wages and bring down food, housing and health care costs. A majority of Hispanic voters supported Harris — including men — and a supermajority reject mass deportations and abortion restrictions. The mainstream exit polls got Hispanic candidate support wrong, and that is a recurring sampling issue. But there is dissonance between candidate choice and policy positions, with much greater support for policies supported by Democrats than for Democratic candidates. This is an area of strategic reflection for Democrats. For Republicans, the message is that many of the policies in their platform are opposed by a majority of American voters, including Latino supermajorities. Elected officials on both sides of the aisle would be wise to govern with those elements in mind, to keep or grow Hispanic support in future elections.”
Immigration & Border Security (6th priority)
www.nbcnews.com
From the beginning of the election to its final days, Latino voters in interviews and polls consistently named the economy, inflation or higher costs as their No. 1 issue and gave Trump the advantage on them. Pennsylvania voter Regino Cruz, 25, said Tuesday that he voted for Trump, believing the former president could improve the economy.
“For me, it’s work. It’s the economy. It’s groceries,” said Cruz, who's of Puerto Rican descent and was waiting to vote at the John B. Stetson Middle School in Northern Philadelphia.
Hispanic Voters Back Harris over Trump by a 62%-37% Margin; Cite Economic Concerns as Top Priorities
Updated as of 11/13/24: Correction below on total vote of Hispanic men. Previously cited percentage pertained to Hispanic men between ages 18-39. Economy
unidosus.org
“The most potent driver in the election was economic discontent, expressed in President-elect Donald Trump’s gains with most demographics. If there is a mandate, it’s on that: raise wages and bring down food, housing and health care costs. A majority of Hispanic voters supported Harris — including men — and a supermajority reject mass deportations and abortion restrictions. The mainstream exit polls got Hispanic candidate support wrong, and that is a recurring sampling issue. But there is dissonance between candidate choice and policy positions, with much greater support for policies supported by Democrats than for Democratic candidates. This is an area of strategic reflection for Democrats. For Republicans, the message is that many of the policies in their platform are opposed by a majority of American voters, including Latino supermajorities. Elected officials on both sides of the aisle would be wise to govern with those elements in mind, to keep or grow Hispanic support in future elections.”
Immigration & Border Security (6th priority)
- 80% of Latino voters support passing a law to provide permanent legal status to undocumented immigrants who have lived in the U.S. for a long time, including Dreamers who were brought to the U.S. as children.
- 71% of Hispanic voters support passing the bipartisan border security bill to block avenues for seeking asylum, increase the number of border patrol agents and asylum officers, and expand detention and technology at the U.S.-Mexico border.
Record voter gains among Latinos for Trump mainly boiled down to their top issue — the economy
Vice President Kamala Harris won a slim majority of votes cast by Latinos, but Trump bested a high set by George W. Bush.
From the beginning of the election to its final days, Latino voters in interviews and polls consistently named the economy, inflation or higher costs as their No. 1 issue and gave Trump the advantage on them. Pennsylvania voter Regino Cruz, 25, said Tuesday that he voted for Trump, believing the former president could improve the economy.
“For me, it’s work. It’s the economy. It’s groceries,” said Cruz, who's of Puerto Rican descent and was waiting to vote at the John B. Stetson Middle School in Northern Philadelphia.
I tend to agree with most of what you say. The far-left ideology often does get represented in the press/social media (and by the GOP) as being mainstream thought while the Democratic Party flails about trying to correct things without upsetting the fringe wing. That's a losing battle and has cost us credibility for years.
I think you're right. Most people have views that fall closer to the middle on average: liberal on social issues and more conservative on economic policies. Our current election system is so anti-nuance that polarity has become the norm.
As for the gender issue, I don't really care about the entertainment industry. People can choose for themselves (and their family) what they want to watch. Money being the ultimate aim of the big studios, the paying public will decide. Education is a different matter, as I'm unsure to what you refer. If indoctrination means having books with gay characters in the school and classroom library, then I fully support it. If it means inviting drag queens to read in class, then I find it polarizing and unnecessary. If it's the idea (recently pushed by Trump) that schools/teachers are encouraging boys to identify as girls, then I reject it as ridiculous. Maybe you're referring to something else. In any case, I'd like to continue this discussion in our education thread. I'm always happy to discuss education policy.
Hopefully, the Democratic Party will find a way to communicate an inclusive vision forward that stresses an appreciation of and dedication to the rights and needs of all Americans. Our nation needs that.
It's almost like six decades of "you're a bigot if you disagree" was insanely stupid.
But it did what it was supposed to do: it quieted dissent in the ranks.
I don't hold a lot of hope for that.
Rest assured, they'll get control of at least one branch of the Congress at the midterms - and misread their "mandate" every bit as bad as the GOP will misread theirs.
If Dip Dung Donnie gets his way with tariffs, he's gonna be ranting about how Biden is to blame for the high prices in 2026.
Then he'll insist the elections were rigged.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
It's hard to not feel cynical about all politics in DC anymore.
Sad to say, the vast majority of Americans are myopic and uninformed. Easily swayed by bugbear issues and demagogues. I used to think the FF's were wrong in their suspicion of direct democracy. But when I see people vote against their best interests, relying on lies and half-truths, propaganda, I start to understand the logic more.
I use the example of Clinton '92, able to convince enough people that the economy was in the toilet, when we had just gone thru three straight positive quarters. Because the public didn't "feel" it, they were easily swayed.
I'm up 700K in my IRA(over 2020) at the moment. You don't see me putting a shotgun to my mouth due to the terrible economy.
Proof that we are so screwed: https://www.marketwatch.com/livecov...-it-s-still-going-strong-yNmxuUmcx5KuxVpH3wy0
I use the example of Clinton '92, able to convince enough people that the economy was in the toilet, when we had just gone thru three straight positive quarters. Because the public didn't "feel" it, they were easily swayed.
I'm up 700K in my IRA(over 2020) at the moment. You don't see me putting a shotgun to my mouth due to the terrible economy.
Proof that we are so screwed: https://www.marketwatch.com/livecov...-it-s-still-going-strong-yNmxuUmcx5KuxVpH3wy0
Been saying this for years. They understood that pure democracy was a stupid idea and for the very reasons you outlined. They knew this BEFORE there were people walking around with tattooed tongues and pierced scrotums. If they're looking down from heaven and seeing the world for what it is, they know they made the right choice.
And yet a demagogue like trump can come back from a loss, a failed insurrection and win a second term.
When you left your country because you couldnt feed your family and pay your bills and you immigrate to a country where you cant feed your family and pay your bills, youre probably gonna be a little jaded. The only thing that could get all these distinct groups to vote inspite of the complete disparagement of their identity is their standard of living moreso than the economy at large.
Based on discussion through the years with legal resident Hispanics or Hispanic citizens here in Texas, they may dislike illegal immigrant more than us gringos.
My wife’s family are all born and bred Hispanic Texans and I can vouch for this.
"How did we lose to this guy" is a question that ought to keep some smarmy consultants up at night but won't.And yet a demagogue like trump can come back from a loss, a failed insurrection and win a second term.
I love when folks want to educate me about Hispanics from afar.
But folks who came here the "right way" don't tend to like the folks who tried to cut in line.
Of course, it's racist of me to point that fact out - but it's a fact.
You lived in Texas. Think about how many hispanics are in the building trades. If they're here legally, someone coming in illegal is a potential job competitor. It's not personal Sonny, it's strictly business.
Yes, it's almost like "let's let the students who rioted at the 1968 Democratic Convention tell us how we should elect a President in 1972, make their ideas policy, and wind up with 50 state primaries (or caucuses) that are totally controlled by the most partisan activist people in the world who are full of rage with no plan after winning" was a really bad idea.
I mean, I thought so when we basically did that in the 2003 Gulf War, too.
That idea is how the hardcore liberal left took over the nomination process from 1972-88, resulting in four jolting Republican landslides and a narrow win by centrist Carter. And it's ALSO how the religious right seized control of the Republican Party, too.
Might have been a really bad idea.
The Perception Gap That Explains American Politics
Americans overwhelmingly—but, it turns out, mistakenly—believe that Democrats care more about advancing progressive social issues than widely shared economic ones.
www.theatlantic.com
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