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The five Ohio State players didn't do anything wrong

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BamaUndergrad88

BamaNation Citizen
Sep 27, 2010
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There's never an excuse to knowingly break a rule, but I think the rule itself is stupid, exploitative and un-American.

Some may disagree with me on this, but I think college football isn't much better than slave labor. Yes, the players get a free education that many of them otherwise might not have gotten and the opportunity to make millions in the NFL, but they already more than earn taht with all the work they put in and the pressure that they are put under.

Terrelle Pryor and his teammates bring in millions of dollars for Ohio State in ticket sales and tv money, and they're not supposed to see a cent of it? How is that even fair? What's even worse imo is all the #2 jerseys that tOSU fans walk around in, and autographed jerseys it sells. You can even buy parts of the gameday uniforms that various players have worn directly from the school's athletic department for like $300 a pop. The whole thing wreaks of hypocrissy and greed and it sickens me to no end. How does it make sense that these players should be suspended for exchanging a free tattoo for items that the school is making piles of cash off itself?! This is America, those players should be allowed to do whatever they want with THEIR property. In '07 the NCAA's President made a salary of $935,000, his salary made off the backs of these 'amateur' athletes.

All Division I schools are guilty of this exploitation. How is it fair to Julio Jones to not get a share of the money made from all those #8 Bama jerseys you see fans wearing? It isn't. This system the NCAA has in place is bad for the players, bad for the fans, and bad for the game. The players ought to be compensated fairly for the value that they bring to their programs. I think Cecil Newton is an utter sleezeball and the way he shopped his son around was exploitative, but think about it. The sum he asked from Miss State is CHUMP CHANGE compared to the money he has made for Auburn.

I know there's a thread about the Ohio State suspensions, but I wanted to start a talk specifically about whether players should be allowed to receive money or not. Yall have seen where I stand, what are yalls thoughts?
 
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These players accepted the opportunity to get an education at taxpayer expense to the tune of over 100k.
These players agreed to abide by a set of rules in return.
They did not do so.

This relationship is nowhere close to "slave labor". As far as I am aware, slaves do not get an education that
adds such value to the future of said slave.

Whether or not the State profits from that relationship is unimportant. The bottom line is that these young men made an agreement to follow a set of rules in return for an education that is for the most part outside of the realm of possibility for the average young person.

They willingly failed in their agreement.

In fact, It would stand to reason that the State could in fact sue for a breech of contract.

I don't understand why so many people decide to take up for a few young men that feel as though they are above the law and rules are made for everyone BUT them.
 
Trying to keep this football-related, otherwise it goes on the Non-Sports board, but the sentiment expressed in your post is one of the core problems with our country today - the sentiment that if one believes that a rule is stupid, it's not wrong to break that rule. The rule itself may be "stupid", as you say. Nonetheless, it's a rule just as much as the offsides penalty. There's a process for dealing with bad rules, whether in families, government or the NCAA. And that process isn't ignoring the rule. It's very simple: it is against NCAA rules for players to benefit from their status as student-athletes (whether that benefit is free tattoos or free passing grades or free cars). The players violated that rule. They most certainly did do something wrong.

If you don't agree with the rule (which is clearly the case), that's a different discussion. As has already been pointed out, the players are getting paid for their play in the form of tuition and fees: on average at a public four-year institution, approximately $23K for in-state kids who stay for three years, and approximately $60K for out-of-state kids who stay for five. Though I understand what you're saying, allowing them to benefit from their status as student athletes effectively ends their status as amateur student athletes, and begins their status as professional football players. There's already a professional football league. Colleges are for getting an eduction and earning a degree.
 
In addition to the free education, their books, room/board, meals, medical treatment, tutors, stipends, all come for free. That is probably several hundred thousand dollars per player. A lot of mid to lower level football programs are barely in the black after the season b/c of all the expenses that a traveling team/ practice facility maintenance; salaried coaches/ trainers require. Yes, the "big" schools make money, but you do realize that football is the only revenue generating sport for most schools so its revenue has to pay for the athletes and expenses in every other area right? If football players are to be paid, should all collegiate athletes be paid too then? Who is to determine what "fair compensation" is and is it the same for every player at one school or all schools? The list of questions is endless and would create a whole new bureaucracy in addition to the NCAA.

As an aside, how is it un-American? I'd agree the NCAA has some un-American rules that try to add parity to the game at the expense of the "big" schools. There is no violation of free enterprise...these kids can sell their jerseys without criminal prosecution, but face punishment from the NCAA which is an agreement these kids entered into voluntarily. In my eyes, it is similar to the contracts going into the military. You give up certain rights/abilities that are otherwise afforded to all Americans in exchange for receiving certain benefits not available to all Americans.
 
BamaUndergrad88 said:
Terrelle Pryor and his teammates bring in millions of dollars for Ohio State in ticket sales and tv money, and they're not supposed to see a cent of it? How is that even fair? What's even worse imo is all the #2 jerseys that tOSU fans walk around in, and autographed jerseys it sells. You can even buy parts of the gameday uniforms that various players have worn directly from the school's athletic department for like $300 a pop. The whole thing wreaks of hypocrissy and greed and it sickens me to no end. How does it make sense that these players should be suspended for exchanging a free tattoo for items that the school is making piles of cash off itself?! This is America, those players should be allowed to do whatever they want with THEIR property. In '07 the NCAA's President made a salary of $935,000, his salary made off the backs of these 'amateur' athletes.

All Division I schools are guilty of this exploitation. How is it fair to Julio Jones to not get a share of the money made from all those #8 Bama jerseys you see fans wearing? It isn't. This system the NCAA has in place is bad for the players, bad for the fans, and bad for the game. The players ought to be compensated fairly for the value that they bring to their programs. I think Cecil Newton is an utter sleezeball and the way he shopped his son around was exploitative, but think about it. The sum he asked from Miss State is CHUMP CHANGE compared to the money he has made for Auburn.

I know there's a thread about the Ohio State suspensions, but I wanted to start a talk specifically about whether players should be allowed to receive money or not. Yall have seen where I stand, what are yalls thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'm also responsible for millions of dollars of revenue for my company and I think that I deserve more compensation than I get in return also. I believe that is probably the case for most people.

However, I made an agreement with my company to provide my services for the amount that I am getting. There's an understanding per criminal laws and employment rules that if I sell proprietary information which I produced, I can and probably will be punished up to the point of termination. I created the information within the context of my employment with my company and therefore it is no longer my information to sell.

These athletes made an agreement with their respective university and with the NCAA that they would provide their athletic services in return for a scholarship and that they would obey all NCAA rules, one of which is that they cannot personally profit from anything within the context of their athletic services with their university. They know that if they break the rules, they'll be punished. They made the decision to break the rules and thus they deserve their punishment.

BTW... most collegiate athletic programs operate in the red. They're not making millions of dollars because they have to spend so much in the maintenance of the athletes, the facilities and the entire organization around their athletic programs. The jerseys and other equipment that the athletes have were not purchased by the athletes. The ones that were given to them were given with the understanding that they would not use them for profit... at least not until their collegiate eligibility was up... so they were NOT the athletes property to do with as they saw fit.

Also, if we're talking fairness, football is a team sport. These star athletes would not be in the position they're in if not for the contributions of their teammates, the trainers, managers, coaches and even the fans who contribute. If we're going to be really fair, then when these athletes go to the NFL, they should divide up their pay and give back to those that made it happen.
 
Honden said:
These players accepted the opportunity to get an education at taxpayer expense to the tune of over 100k.
These players agreed to abide by a set of rules in return.
They did not do so.

This relationship is nowhere close to "slave labor". As far as I am aware, slaves do not get an education that
adds such value to the future of said slave.

Whether or not the State profits from that relationship is unimportant. The bottom line is that these young men made an agreement to follow a set of rules in return for an education that is for the most part outside of the realm of possibility for the average young person.

They willingly failed in their agreement.

In fact, It would stand to reason that the State could in fact sue for a breech of contract.

I don't understand why so many people decide to take up for a few young men that feel as though they are above the law and rules are made for everyone BUT them.
Click to expand...

This feeling that "rules don't apply to me" is prevalent throughout society, not just with young people. For example, you should see the sparring posts that arise on CL when somebody starts trying to sell dogs or cats (which is against CL rules). That's just one small example...I could post many more.
 
Actually, they broke the rules, so you're wrong.

You can debate the fairness of said rules all you wish, but whether or not they broke said rules isn't subjective.
 
I have heard people use the "slave labor" term before, and that is a joke, in my opinion. First, these student-athletes aren't forced to do anything. Most of them seem to love the recruiting process where they are treated like royalty, which is a far cry from slavery. Many of them continue to be treated like kings during their time at a school, which is a sad statement about our society, but that is another topic. Second, these student-athletes receive free tuition, room and board, tutoring, and medical care, so let's not act like they don't get anything out of the deal. There are many kids in this country who play sports in college and don't receive anything. They just love having the opportunity to play the sport they love.

Just because there are a few athletes who seem to only use college as a training ground for the NFL or NBA, that doesn't mean that the entire amateur system for college athletics is broken. It seems to me that even those special athletes who continue their careers in the pros received good training and preparation in college. Well, isn't college supposed to train students for their careers?

Now, your point about the student-athletes receiving something for the sale of items that represent them is understandable, and I think kids should be allowed to sell anything that belongs to them. (The problem with them being allowed to sell personal items that represent football success is that some idiot booster would pay $100,000 for a jersey or ring. If we didn't have such idiots in the world, we wouldn't need some of these ridiculous rules.) I wouldn't have a problem with those athletes receiving a percentage of sales of their items when they graduate. For example, Julio could get a percentage of #8 jerseys sold upon graduation. However, for every Julio and Mark Ingram, there are hundreds of other student-athletes who also represent universities across the land. They all sign-up to attend school and play a sport and represent their university of choice. If they don't like the situation, they can simply walk away.
 
To say they didn't do anything wrong is ... wrong. They took some actions that are against the rules they signed up for when they accepted the athletic scholarships. They did wrong.

It's a completely different discussion, however, if the issue is whether or not athletes should receive some form of stipend in addition to what's now provided via an athletic scholarship. I favor a rules change to allow athletes to receive a small monetary stipend to cover some basic expenses like taking a date to dinner and a movie or whatever.

When I was in college I could work for extra spending money. But if I had to do all the athletic training they do, there's no way I could have worked and still keep up with my course work. A small NCAA-approved stipend would be OK with me.

IMO an NCAA-approved stipend would help insulate athletes from the temptations of rogue agents and boosters. Yes, of course the agent or booster could and would offer more than the stipend covers. But if the athlete has some spending money via a stipend, the illegal temptation could have less appeal.
 
I would think that all the rules are explained to the players once they have signed that scolly. They cheated and knew it when they got the tattoos. There payment is a free education that is worth alot of money over a four year span. I think that's a pretty good payment for the players.
 
You need to re-think this position a little bit. These young men have received an opportunity which is rare. They get to be coached by some of the best teachers/molders of athletes in the country. They get room and board, meals, a quality education, etc., while doing it. They're taken care of very well and the incentive is there to really do well. They also get to be on the national stage and seen by people who can then "hire" them to move up into the NFL. That's worth untold amounts of money in and of itself. It's a give and take situation. If you start paying them, where do you cap it off? The NCAA will never allow this - they're all about parity and this would destroy that. The bigger schools could pay for more players, better players. It would be mayhem, and you'd end up with essentially what makes me sick about the NFL - paid prima donnas. The college game (once you purge it of the pariahs like Auburn, OSU, USCw, etc.) is the purer form of the game BECAUSE they're not getting paid a salary. They're performing for a chance at someday earning a big salary. That's what going to a university is for - to prepare you for the professional level. Sports is no different, and these kids should be thankful for the opportunity. It will always be that bosses, universities, etc., will make millions off the backs people. Every boss I ever had made money off of my efforts - lots more than they paid me. It's a part of life. If you don't like it, you strike out and become the boss - then you get all the headaches and pressure and realize why they should make most of the money.

But a university giving a kid professional training, room, board, education in any field of study he wants and the chance to shine on the national stage to have a shot at millions one day is enough payment. It's more than most kids get.
 
I was going to post a well thought out and logical response that included references to Antigone, St. Augustine, and Martin Luther King, Jr. Instead, in keeping with the amount of thought and logic that went into the original post I'm just going to say the following:

You are wrong. You are wrong for enabling a practice akin to slavery. You should stop watching college football until such time as it is no longer anything remotely resembling slavery.
 
Since it seems that not even one person has taken your side in this discussion, I will say that I agree with some of your thoughts in this matter. I do not believe kids are being exploited but I do believe that they should be allowed to work as long as their grades don't drop as a result. Until the Georgia incident players could legally sell items that were given to them, but some took advantage of the extra rope so rules had to be created. In closing I understand what you were trying to say, but you used a word "slavery" which is very powerful and should only be used to highlight true social injustices.
 
I hope you don't think that Cam Newton or Auburn didn't do anything wrong either???
I'm pretty sure they would like to pick and chose which rules they would follow and which they would deem unfair and didn't apply to them.

Get real man. The Ohio State guys, The Newtons and Auburn violated the rules because they thought they wouldn't get caught... BUSTED... :)

Now I'm waiting for the NCAA and SEC officials to get backed into a corner and enforce the rules across the board.
( Why have rules if you ain't gonna enforce them?)
 
Just like was mentioned before, you are wrong. Debate the the NCAA's governing ability or the rules they make but there is no debate that the rules were broken as stands.
 
The players make certain agreements in order to receive the opportunity for: a top notch education, tutoring, training, room, board, future fame and fortune.

However, these players did nothing wrong, because they should be able to violate those parts of the agreement they (and you) think are unjust.

Ladies and gents, I present to you above an example of a large part of what is wrong with today's society.
 
Lost in all the discussions about the millions being brought in by college football is where the money is going. Granted, the coaches make a pretty hefty salary (although a good chuck of their compensation is actually not funded by the university) but the rest of the money is being used to fund the expenses of football, their great facilities, and other athletics at those universities. Money from football pays for men's and women's golf, tennis, track and field, etc. Without the football money these sports would likely not exist or they would become non-scholarshipped sports (although that might not be a bad thing, depending on your beliefs because it is, after all, a form of communism to take from football and give to the other sports that can't pay their own way). If you take the football money and keep it inside the football program, by paying the athletes, it comes at the expense of these other sports.
 
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