The Future of Bama Basketball

[Ldlane]

I was sharing earlier in what I saw of the VCU/Drexas game last evening. Lots of hustle and movement in the offense and hard-nosed, in your face defense. Basically, it is what we saw in the games prior to the "slow down" of the last two games. Only thing is that they can hit the "trey" frequently. I think we are on the verge with CAG. RTR

 

[Ty Webb]

I watched their game last night and liked the style of play.

However, I hope the future of Bama basketball is at a completely different level than those two teams.

 

[Ldlane]

I watched their game last night and liked the style of play.

However, I hope the future of Bama basketball is at a completely different level than those two teams.

I think that is a given. We've had two 20 win seasons in a row and things are looking bright.

 

[TideorDie87]

I think we have to give him enough time though. We expect too much as fans!

 

[deuce_deuce]

Ummm I believe the future looks very bright. Coach has brought in 6 newcomers with 5 of them giving contributions. Last year he broung in 3 contributors. Thats 8 players who should be with us for 2 more years. And with that team we look poised to make the NCAA tourney. I believe our future looks very bright as all of those players continue to improve and gain experience.

 

[Rama Jama]

I'm going to be the dissenter here in that my opinion is we need a dominant big like Moultrie at State, not more shooters. I feel our guys will mature and become better shooters as they gain confidence and experience. What we don't have is a big who can take the team on his back and carry them. We have always had a big guy who could get a bucket when nothing else was working, A "Go To" guy. Green is NOT a go to guy. Perhaps part of the reason we shoot so poorly from outside is they don't have much respect for our forwards and centers. They jump out to cover the shooters since they perceive no inside threat.

Our problems seem to be when we get out muscled down low. (See USC and LSU game) We have a good group of kids who are developing, but you can't win a championship with players that you have to develop unless they have played together for 3 or 4 years which doesn't happen in the SEC very often. Teams that have that kind of makeup are generally Mid Majors like Murray State. At some time you need a nucleus of guys who have played together and know each other along with a couple of difference makers.

My personal goal for our is too win a championship, not just a few games.

 

[bamahippie]

I hear ya, but I don't want to have to rely on someone having to carry the team on its back too often. This team seems to thrive when different folks step up in spots, and we play as a team. Just MHO.

 

[BamaMTA06]

I'm going to be the dissenter here in that my opinion is we need a dominant big like Moultrie at State, not more shooters. I feel our guys will mature and become better shooters as they gain confidence and experience. What we don't have is a big who can take the team on his back and carry them. We have always had a big guy who could get a bucket when nothing else was working, A "Go To" guy. Green is NOT a go to guy. Perhaps part of the reason we shoot so poorly from outside is they don't have much respect for our forwards and centers. They jump out to cover the shooters since they perceive no inside threat.

Our problems seem to be when we get out muscled down low. (See USC and LSU game) We have a good group of kids who are developing, but you can't win a championship with players that you have to develop unless they have played together for 3 or 4 years which doesn't happen in the SEC very often. Teams that have that kind of makeup are generally Mid Majors like Murray State. At some time you need a nucleus of guys who have played together and know each other along with a couple of difference makers.

My personal goal for our is too win a championship, not just a few games.

1) You'll never see that type of big in an Anthony Grant ran system unless he changes his style of play.

2) Schools like Vandy and Georgetown are typically made up of Jr's and Sr's with 1 or 2 underclassmen that play major minutes. I thinks that's what he hope to build and sustain over the years.

3) I would give my left arm for a championship in basketball, but coming from where we were it is going to take more than 3-4 years.

 

[Matt0424]

I'm going to be the dissenter here in that my opinion is we need a dominant big like Moultrie at State, not more shooters. I feel our guys will mature and become better shooters as they gain confidence and experience. What we don't have is a big who can take the team on his back and carry them. We have always had a big guy who could get a bucket when nothing else was working, A "Go To" guy. Green is NOT a go to guy. Perhaps part of the reason we shoot so poorly from outside is they don't have much respect for our forwards and centers. They jump out to cover the shooters since they perceive no inside threat.

Our problems seem to be when we get out muscled down low. (See USC and LSU game) We have a good group of kids who are developing, but you can't win a championship with players that you have to develop unless they have played together for 3 or 4 years which doesn't happen in the SEC very often. Teams that have that kind of makeup are generally Mid Majors like Murray State. At some time you need a nucleus of guys who have played together and know each other along with a couple of difference makers.

My personal goal for our is too win a championship, not just a few games.

2011 UConn - (Led by Kemba Walker, Alex Oriakhi was the best big...but wasn't anywhere near dominant)
2010 Duke - (Led by Singler, Scheyer, and Smith...no dominant big at all)
2009 UNC - (Led by Tyler Hansbrough, I'll give that one...even at 6'9" he was dominant)
2008 UK - (Only real big man was Freshman Cole Aldrich. Not dominant as a Freshman, averaging 2.8 ppg)
06/07 UF - (Led by Horford and Noah, among others, had too much talent everywhere...)
2005 UNC - (Sean May was a dominant big...until he left UNC's campus)
2004 UConn - (Emeka Okafor)
2003 Syracuse - (No dominant big, Carmelo played on the wing...)
2002 Maryland - (A Couple of good bigs who averaged over 10 ppg, especially Wilcox who avg nearly 16ppg)


Over the last 10 Champions, it's really split half and half between who had bigs and who didn't... Shooters are just as important...How far is State going with Moultrie? We've made it further with no shooting, and a big who you say isn't a "go to guy"...

 

[TrueGritnPluck]

2011 UConn - (Led by Kemba Walker, Alex Oriakhi was the best big...but wasn't anywhere near dominant)
2010 Duke - (Led by Singler, Scheyer, and Smith...no dominant big at all)
2009 UNC - (Led by Tyler Hansbrough, I'll give that one...even at 6'9" he was dominant)
2008 UK - (Only real big man was Freshman Cole Aldrich. Not dominant as a Freshman, averaging 2.8 ppg)
06/07 UF - (Led by Horford and Noah, among others, had too much talent everywhere...)
2005 UNC - (Sean May was a dominant big...until he left UNC's campus)
2004 UConn - (Emeka Okafor)
2003 Syracuse - (No dominant big, Carmelo played on the wing...)
2002 Maryland - (A Couple of good bigs who averaged over 10 ppg, especially Wilcox who avg nearly 16ppg)


Over the last 10 Champions, it's really split half and half between who had bigs and who didn't... Shooters are just as important...How far is State going with Moultrie? We've made it further with no shooting, and a big who you say isn't a "go to guy"...

You forgot Zoubek for Dke, and they would not have won it had he not stepped up his game

 

[TrueGritnPluck]

I was sharing earlier in what I saw of the VCU/Drexas game last evening. Lots of hustle and movement in the offense and hard-nosed, in your face defense. Basically, it is what we saw in the games prior to the "slow down" of the last two games. Only thing is that they can hit the "trey" frequently. I think we are on the verge with CAG. RTR

I cannot agree.

What you saw in the Bama offense is a lot of stagnation and stationary players, not hustle and movement. I think the style CAG wants is more up-tempo than what we have seen, but not as fast as VCU. Bama is yet to play a game at the VCU pace.

It does not take 3 years to teach guys to run and attack - but it may take experience to produce good decision making and positive results in that style.

 

[Matt0424]

You forgot Zoubek for Dke, and they would not have won it had he not stepped up his game

I didn't forget him...I'm a Duke fan. He wasn't dominant in any way. He averaged less then 4pts and 4 reb per game on his career (5ppg and 7 boards his Senior year), and only started 17 games his Senior year. Just because he was on the team, doesn't mean he was dominant. You could have replaced him with any number of random big men in basketball and gotten the same effect. Take Tyler Hansbrough off UNC in 2009 and see if they win the Title...take Zoubek off Duke in 2010, and they would have still won...Engstrom or Gueye could easily replicate his numbers in their careers, and Jacobs will be a better scorer...

 

[CajunCrimson]

I cannot agree.

What you saw in the Bama offense is a lot of stagnation and stationary players, not hustle and movement. I think the style CAG wants is more up-tempo than what we have seen, but not as fast as VCU. Bama is yet to play a game at the VCU pace.

It does not take 3 years to teach guys to run and attack - but it may take experience to produce good decision making and positive results in that style.

You seem extremely impatient with the progress of this team. I think that you have to take more than just what you cosmetically see on TV to make a judgement about the state of the team. You have to work through the existing team while integrating the talent you are wanting.

Secondly -- You also have to deal with the fact that other than UK, you are not likely to dominate the SEC.....most of the teams in the SEC (minus Vandy/Florida) are near clones of each other. Auburn/UGA/USCe might all be the same team -- UT/OleMiss/State/LSU/Arkansas/Bama are all similar teams as well....Even Vandy/Florida are very similar teams.....it's very hard for teams to dominate more than 2-3 years in a row before falling off to the talent rise in other programs.....

I like slow steady progress -- we haven't backtracked -- and are slowly moving forward....

That's what foundations are built on....

 

[257WBY]

Patience is a virtue, but how patient does a fan have to be when Butler is in back to back title games?
The upside I see with this team is for continued improvement from the young guards. Guards are what wins in college. These guys could make a deep run.

 

[TrueGritnPluck]

I didn't forget him...I'm a Duke fan. He wasn't dominant in any way. He averaged less then 4pts and 4 reb per game on his career (5ppg and 7 boards his Senior year), and only started 17 games his Senior year. Just because he was on the team, doesn't mean he was dominant. You could have replaced him with any number of random big men in basketball and gotten the same effect. Take Tyler Hansbrough off UNC in 2009 and see if they win the Title...take Zoubek off Duke in 2010, and they would have still won...Engstrom or Gueye could easily replicate his numbers in their careers, and Jacobs will be a better scorer...

From Wiki - Zoubek provided a defensive post presence Duke needed, and look at what he did rebounding wise. Without his boards, defense, and offensive rebound points Duke does not win it all - and then consider all the times he was able to just bat the ball back out to a teammate.

The team's rebounding and defense improved with him in the lineup in 2009–10.[SUP][8][/SUP] In February 2010, he had a career-high 17 rebounds in his first career start against Maryland, cementing his spot in the starting lineup.[SUP][9][/SUP] He was a key supporting player of the team, and was 7th in the ACC with 7.7 rebounds per game (and 2nd on the offensive boards, with 3.5 rebounds per game).[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP] Per 40 minutes of play, he averaged 16.8 rebounds.[SUP][12][/SUP] Zoubek led the NCAA in pace-adjusted offensive rebounding at 7.8 per 40 minutes for the season and is second in this category for the past decade - only DeJuan Blair of Pittsburgh has put up better numbers.[SUP][13][/SUP] He ended his career 4th on Duke's all-time list in offensive rebounds (276), and in his senior year set the school's single-season record of 145.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] He was also named to the All-ACC academic team.[SUP][16][/SUP]
Explaining his resurgence after suffering through foot injuries his sophomore and junior years, he said:

It's a process. A lot of days in the gym, a lot of sweat, a lot of hatred toward [assistant coach Steve Wojciechowski] for all the stuff he put me through [laughing]. But it was all worth it. It's hard to see the future in all the work you put in. How's it going to help you, and is it worth it? It is. This really proves that.[SUP][17][/SUP]
​

Teammate Jon Scheyer said: "He's a player you love to play with and you hate to play against. He's just really physical. He's such a big body. Even if he doesn't mean to, you run into him. And you really feel it."[SUP][18][/SUP]

 

[The Playmaker]

I didn't forget him...I'm a Duke fan. He wasn't dominant in any way. He averaged less then 4pts and 4 reb per game on his career (5ppg and 7 boards his Senior year), and only started 17 games his Senior year. Just because he was on the team, doesn't mean he was dominant. You could have replaced him with any number of random big men in basketball and gotten the same effect. Take Tyler Hansbrough off UNC in 2009 and see if they win the Title...take Zoubek off Duke in 2010, and they would have still won...Engstrom or Gueye could easily replicate his numbers in their careers, and Jacobs will be a better scorer...

Okay Bama is my team but I do follow Duke basketball and if Zoubek wasn't on that team the Duke would not have won. Zoubek became a big time player grabbing rebounds and becoming more of a contributor as the season went on. He brought the physical presence that the others couldn't.

 

[BamaMTA06]

Duke doesn't win without Zoubek and that's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of "small ball". That will get you beat in the NCAA tournament. You may not need your bigs to score, but you do need their fouls and rebounds.

 

[Matt0424]

You guys aren't getting it though...the earlier person said we needed a big like Moultrie. Moultrie is a ball in his hands, (trying to be)dominant big man. Zoubek WAS NOT A DOMINANT BIG MAN. He was a rebounder/fouler. That's not a DOMINANT BIG MAN. We have people who can play a Zoubek role on the team now. You want a hard working, tough nosed, team first big man with bad feet and no offensive game...we've got that covered already (Engstrom and Gueye). The earlier poster, as I stated before, said we needed a Moultrie. There is a HUGE difference. Almost every team has a "Zoubek type" player, and he may be a huge help, but that doesn't make him dominant in any sense of the word. If you replaced Zoubek on Duke with any other high majors top rebounder, you would get the same reult 9/10 times. My point is, we don't need a "go-to" big man as they referred to it. Zoubek was never go-to...

 

[Rama Jama]

2011 UConn - (Led by Kemba Walker, Alex Oriakhi was the best big...but wasn't anywhere near dominant)
2010 Duke - (Led by Singler, Scheyer, and Smith...no dominant big at all)
2009 UNC - (Led by Tyler Hansbrough, I'll give that one...even at 6'9" he was dominant)
2008 UK - (Only real big man was Freshman Cole Aldrich. Not dominant as a Freshman, averaging 2.8 ppg)
06/07 UF - (Led by Horford and Noah, among others, had too much talent everywhere...)
2005 UNC - (Sean May was a dominant big...until he left UNC's campus)
2004 UConn - (Emeka Okafor)
2003 Syracuse - (No dominant big, Carmelo played on the wing...)
2002 Maryland - (A Couple of good bigs who averaged over 10 ppg, especially Wilcox who avg nearly 16ppg)


Over the last 10 Champions, it's really split half and half between who had bigs and who didn't... Shooters are just as important...How far is State going with Moultrie? We've made it further with no shooting, and a big who you say isn't a "go to guy"...

Lets examine the top 5 in our league to begin with:

UK- Dominant Big man Davis
Vandy-Ezely
Florida-Young
UT- Several good big guys
Bama-?

While these guys may not be the top scorers night in night out, they control the paint. We need someone who can defend, score and rebound consistently. Hines was that guy last year even though he was really about 6'7".

BTW, Georgetown was bigger than Bama at every position so that is not a valid argument. We got dominated on the boards. USC, Florida, and LSU all control the area around the basket.

 

[CajunCrimson]

You guys aren't getting it though...the earlier person said we needed a big like Moultrie. Moultrie is a ball in his hands, (trying to be)dominant big man. Zoubek WAS NOT A DOMINANT BIG MAN. He was a rebounder/fouler. That's not a DOMINANT BIG MAN. We have people who can play a Zoubek role on the team now. You want a hard working, tough nosed, team first big man with bad feet and no offensive game...we've got that covered already (Engstrom and Gueye). The earlier poster, as I stated before, said we needed a Moultrie. There is a HUGE difference. Almost every team has a "Zoubek type" player, and he may be a huge help, but that doesn't make him dominant in any sense of the word. If you replaced Zoubek on Duke with any other high majors top rebounder, you would get the same reult 9/10 times. My point is, we don't need a "go-to" big man as they referred to it. Zoubek was never go-to...

But Moultrie may end up being the Cancer that kills that team......and keeps them out of the tournament.....at least that's what it looks like from an Armchair...