The LA riots

Tidewater

FB|NS|NSNP Moderator
Staff member
Mar 15, 2003
24,655
18,803
337
Hooterville, Vir.
It's a shame that Congress didn't do enough about lynching from the end of Reconstruction thru the end of Jim Crow and beyond,.

I'd think they would have worked that into the Posse Commitatus act, but I guess they were too busy letting white folks in the South continue the practice, unencumbered.
Well, Congress did do something about lynching. They appropriated money for the Army who fought and suppressed the KKK. They amended laws to protect civil rights: Civil Rights Act of 1866, Enforcement Act of 1871 (the KKK Act), the Civil Rights Act of 1875.
But surely you are not arguing that the officers of the federal government lynching innocent white men is okay if black are being lynched elsewhere.
Is lynching bad or is it okay?

The Radical Republicans taught the South the lesson that, if you cannot beat your opponents in an election, just disfranchise them. So they did as they were taught, to the detriment of both the South and the nation overall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CrimsonJazz

Its On A Slab

All-American
Apr 18, 2018
2,173
3,554
182
Pyongyang, Democratic Republic of Korea
Well, Congress did do something about lynching. They appropriated money for the Army who fought and suppressed the KKK. They amended laws to protect civil rights: Civil Rights Act of 1866, Enforcement Act of 1871 (the KKK Act), the Civil Rights Act of 1875.
But surely you are not arguing that the officers of the federal government lynching inno ent white men is okay if black are being lynched elsewhere.
Is lynching bad or is it okay?

The Radical Republicans taught the South the lesson that, if you cannot beat your opponents in an election, just disfranchise them. So they did as they were taught, to the detriment of both the South and the nation overall.
I mean, I think the Radical Republicans let the South off fairly easy, given the treasonous aspects of the insurrection.

Letting whites continue to treat African-Americans as chattels (Jim Crow, the indentured servitued of sharecropping) and throw in a century or more of abject denial of suffrage. And the continued looking the other way at violence, lynchings, denial of basic human and civil rights and what-not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgreg and 92tide

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
36,798
35,999
187
South Alabama
I have never been in a NG unit so I cannot say for sure but since military support to civil authorities is a core NG task, I'd bet they get some rudimentary training yearly. STill, the Guard can be a blunt instrument as Kent State demonstrated.
When I was in the 101st (1985-1988), we were required to do annual riot control training. We even had an annual allocation of 12-gauge 00 buckshot ammo. I suspect that was a remnant of the Civil Rights Era, something the Army was slow to get rid of.
You are right about your brother. When the USAF seceded from the US Army, they they took all the commissioned pilots with them. Then someone came along with the new-fangled thing called a helicopter and the Army said, "That has promise. Who's going to fly these things for us?"
Well the biggest issue here is the president nationalizing the NG, and not exactly the NG being deployed. Usually the NG is used as mostly a show of force during a riot but rarely take an active role in putting it down. Usually that is a directive made by the governor of that state. With this being the president doing it and claiming to be doing it to restore order it’s anybody’s guess what role they are going to take.
 
  • Thank You
Reactions: crimsonaudio

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
38,727
34,070
287
55
This reminds me of an old 80s joke where the line was that Dan Quayle, National Guard member in Vietnam, was in charge of the kids at Kent State........
 
  • Like
Reactions: 92tide

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
38,727
34,070
287
55

Trump: "The people that are causing the problem are professional agitators, they're insurrectionists, they're bad people. They should in jail. Thank you."


Hypocrisy is the ultimate power move. It is a way of demonstrating that one plays by a different set of rules from the ones adhered to by common people. --- Michael Shellenberger
He's back to Roy Cohn - accuse THEM of what YOU did.
 

Tidewater

FB|NS|NSNP Moderator
Staff member
Mar 15, 2003
24,655
18,803
337
Hooterville, Vir.
I mean, I think the Radical Republicans let the South off fairly easy, given the treasonous aspects of the insurrection.

Letting whites continue to treat African-Americans as chattels (Jim Crow, the indentured servitued of sharecropping) and throw in a century or more of abject denial of suffrage. And the continued looking the other way at violence, lynchings, denial of basic human and civil rights and what-not.
What was on the table in 1865 was that the south accept these positions: states cannot leave the Union. Slavery is done, not to come back. What Grant and Sherman told Lee and Johnston was, accept these conditions, stop fighting and go home.
The southern states repealed their secession ordnances, and ratified the XIII Amendment (the amendment would have have gotten the required 3/4 of the states without ex-Confederate states' ratifications), then held elections in the fall of 1865 and sent their delegations to the session of Congress scheduled to start in December 1865.
That was when the Republicans realized that the southern states had elected congressional delegations that did not include many Republicans. Having won the war to force the southern states to remain in the Union, it dawned on Republicans that southern states did not like Republicans very much and would not elect them to Congress. The GOP would become the minority party when it included delegations from the southern states, so Republicans refused to seat any of the southern congressional delegations (despite the Constitution's Art. V provision that "no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate").
Then the Republicans realized they had to disfranchise southerners or they would have to repeat the process. They needed to manufacture Republican voters to replace them. There were not enough carpetbaggers to do the trick. Then the GOP found what they needed: black voters. In 1865, black men voted in no state south and west of New York. In Illinois, it was illegal to be black. Before 1865, Republicans in northern states had absolutely no interest in black voting. Now, when the GOP needed voters, they wanted freedmen (mostly illiterate and easily manipulated) to vote. So most of the whites were disfranchised and freedmen were enfranchised to get the political result Republicans wanted.
William T. Sherman in 1865 wrote: “The whole idea of giving the vote to the negroes was to create just that many votes to be used by others for political uses.” (O.R. XLVII Pt 3, p. 586)
Senator James Dixon of Connecticut said that “the purpose of the Radicals was the saving of the Republican party, rather than the saving of the Union.”

So Republicans sowed the wind ...
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
36,798
35,999
187
South Alabama
What was on the table in 1865 was that the south accept these positions: states cannot leave the Union. Slavery is done, not to come back. What Grant and Sherman told Lee and Johnston was, accept these conditions, stop fighting and go home.
The southern states repealed their secession ordnances, and ratified the XIII Amendment (the amendment would have have gotten the required 3/4 of the states without ex-Confederate states' ratifications), then held elections in the fall of 1865 and sent their delegations to the session of Congress scheduled to start in December 1865.
That was when the Republicans realized that the southern states had elected congressional delegations that did not include many Republicans. Having won the war to force the southern states to remain in the Union, it dawned on Republicans that southern states did not like Republicans very much and would not elect them to Congress. The GOP would become the minority party when it included delegations from the southern states, so Republicans refused to seat any of the southern congressional delegations (despite the Constitution's Art. V provision that "no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate").
Then the Republicans realized they had to disfranchise southerners or they would have to repeat the process. They needed to manufacture Republican voters to replace them. There were not enough carpetbaggers to do the trick. Then the GOP found what they needed: black voters. In 1865, black men voted in no state south and west of New York. In Illinois, it was illegal to be black. Now, when the GOP needed voters, they wanted freedmen (mostly illiterate and easily manipulated) to vote. So most of the whites were disfranchised and freedmen were enfranchised to get the political result Republicans wanted.
William T. Sherman in 1865 wrote: “The whole idea of giving the vote to the negroes was to create just that many votes to be used by others for political uses.” (O.R. XLVII Pt 3, p. 586)
Senator James Dixon of Connecticut said that “the purpose of the Radicals was the saving of the Republican party, rather than the saving of the Union.”

So Republicans sowed the wind ...
Well if Lincoln hadn’t been assassinated then it’s probably a far smoother transition back into the USA. Johnson was not ever going to keep revenge minded people in check
 
  • Like
Reactions: UAH

Tidewater

FB|NS|NSNP Moderator
Staff member
Mar 15, 2003
24,655
18,803
337
Hooterville, Vir.
I mean, I think the Radical Republicans let the South off fairly easy, given the treasonous aspects of the insurrection.
Not sure was treacherous about secession. Every seceding states had a convention of the people of that state (the same body that had ratified the Constitution and joined the Union to begin with) announce to the world that they were leaving the Union.

As for letting the South off easy, the people of he southern states were not inert matter to be molded by Radical Republicans in any way the Radicals might have chosen. The people of the southern states had agency. They were offered a set of conditions for ending the war, they accepted those conditions, they complied with the stipulated conditions, and the federal government changed the deal and treated them quite poorly, and they reacted to that poor treatment.
I would argue the opposite to your conclusion. The Republicans were lucky that the southern people did not do more to fight back. They probably could have turned the US into something akin to Ireland in 1919-1921. It is possible that, having lost the conventional phase (like the Irish did), they could have won by resorting to insurgency and terror (like the Irish). And like the British, the North might have tired of the cost in blood and treasure and just agreed to let the troublesome provinces go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ole Man Dan

CrimsonJazz

Hall of Fame
May 27, 2022
7,551
8,824
187
I wonder if these clowns realize they are literally making campaign videos for Republicans. The mid-terms aren't that far away and like I said in another post, if Trump shows the same level of restraint here that he did during the Floyd riots, this could give Reps another boost. And for the Dems who are supporting the riots? Well............

 
  • Emphasis!
  • Like
Reactions: bamamc1 and Bazza

JDCrimson

Hall of Fame
Feb 12, 2006
6,537
6,549
187
52
So how can Obama deport however many million illegal immigrants and we heard virtually nothing of it in the media and certainly no rioting ensued? I suspect ICE was expected to carry out it's job quietly and professionally.

Trump wants it to spill out on the street and sow civil unrest...
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgreg

Tidewater

FB|NS|NSNP Moderator
Staff member
Mar 15, 2003
24,655
18,803
337
Hooterville, Vir.
So apparently he is sending in the Marines…. The next thing that usually follows is “martial law”
I honestly do not think so. Our system was set up so that the governor of the state in question had to ask for assistance.
I do not think Newsom has (or will).
Without the endorsement of the governor, the Marines will have trouble accomplishing much.
 

4Q Basket Case

FB|BB Moderator
Staff member
Nov 8, 2004
10,559
15,898
337
Tuscaloosa
Yes, Trump is being a hypocrite calling the LA rioters insurrectionists. Everybody who's surprised, raise your hand. Anybody? Anybody? Guess not.

His hypocrisy doesn't change the nature of what these guys are doing. They're rioting, not protesting. And elected officials are so busy trashing Trump that they're not doing what they can to restore order and protect property.

I'm in no way defending Trump's hypocrisy. I'm saying that trashing Trump is neither Collins's nor Newsom's job. Their job is to protect the welfare of the citizens of California, and they're not doing that.

Crimson Jazz nailed it....they're making campaign videos for the Republicans.

If Trump reacts with restraint and just lets them do their thing, they'll make the Republican case better than the Republicans can. Just let the cameras roll and keep the receipts.

Now, he's not the sharpest tool in the box, and isn't exactly known for playing the long game. So who knows how he's going to react? Adovcating that ICE arrest Newsom wasn't a smart start.

Bottom Line: Trump's a hypocrite and not that bright. That doesn't make the riots OK. And Collins and Newsom are working hard to give Republicans campaign material but are too blinded by their hate for Trump to realize that. They're failing both their party and their constituents.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ole Man Dan

Huckleberry

Hall of Fame
Nov 9, 2004
6,699
13,816
287
Jacksonville, FL
NYT gift link

America Is No Longer a Stable Country

It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the Trump administration is spoiling for a fight on America’s streets. On Saturday, after a protest against Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrests degenerated into violence, the administration reacted as if the country were on the brink of war.

The violence was unacceptable. Civil disobedience is honorable; violence is beyond the pale. But so far, thankfully, the violence has been localized and, crucially, well within the capacity of state and city officials to manage.

But don’t tell that to the Trump administration. Its language was out of control.



This is what Republicans want. Autocracy/Christian Nationalism in the name of Trumpism/Project 2025 is the goal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dtgreg