Time to Look in the Mirror

[TiderinMiss]

Well, here's the irony of it all...


I've seen posts like this on just about every message board. You know...quit blaming other people for our problems...it's our fault.

That's true. We let our guard down with some questionable hires, such as Sorenson, Bockrath, and most certainly, Dubose.

But, just who was it that screamed, e-mailed, called, and crayoned in letters to Bockrath and Sorenson to hire Dubose in December, 1996?

Well...look in the mirror. It was the majority of the fans. Yes, that's right. Many of the same ones who post on these message boards were asking for trouble in the beginning with that hire. Many of the same ones who make posts complaining about blaming others were guilty of crayoning their requests for Mike Dubose. Many of these same ones complaining about how we need to return to glory and quit blaming others are the same ones who wanted Dubose, despite his lack of not only HC experience, but, Hades, he wasn't hardly a DC. He had just moved up from position coach, for heaven's sake.

Give Bockrath some credit. The man tried to hire an experienced HC (Beamer was one of the ones he wanted. Would have been a good hire. I questioned him wanting Neuheisel.) But, the majority of Bama fans thougth family ties were more important. And, here we are today...

So, you're right. Look in the mirror. Look long. I can, because I never thought Dubose was a good hire from day one, and what we are now experiencing is no surprise.

But, at the same time, it doesn't excuse coaches like Fulmer and programs like UT to do what they did. Demanding equal treatment is a whole other ball game.

 

[bamaslammer]

I'm quite certain if Alabama has a transgression it been front page news. I don't know of any other program that stays under such a microscope even though we haven't been in the top 20 in some time.

I see no point in rehashing our past failures unless your an AUBURN FAN.

you know what you can do with your mirror.

 

[TiderinMiss]

Should Bama fans look in the mirror? Or should the University?

I think if the University looked in the mirror right now, the face staring back would not even faintly resemble the one that would have stared back from 1997 through 2000. The face of those days would have been smug and arrogant. It would have convinced itself that it was untouchable, and that the ends justified the 'means.'

The face of today is neither smug, nor arrogant. It is confident and full of character, determination and guarded optimism. It's the face of someone who knows he has a long way to go yet, but it's also the face of someone who is absolutely committed to getting there, and getting there by the book.

Now, if Bama fans looked in the mirror... well, the face looks a little different than it did then, too. It's a little older, a little wiser, a little more vigilant. The face bears a few scars from blows that were probably deserved, but the face bears some righteous indignation, because if we deserved those scars, others did too.

No one likes being treated unequally. And no one who has been treated that way ever looks the same.

I don't 'blame' anyone and don't want any restitution. I just want to see everyone play by the same rules, and everyone who breaks the rules treated the same way.

Has that happened?

Well, if you were in Bockrath's situation, what do you do?

He was a dead duck, either way.

Hire Beamer or Neuheisel and he would be fired for going against the masses.

If he hires Dubose, and Dubose fails (which, he did), then he gets the ax for hiring him.

We have a solution in place now. His name is Dr. Witt. You know...the guy who can make sound decisions without being afraid of a popularity contest.

 

[TiderinVA]

TiM, I for one, was NOT one of those that wanted

Dubose. I wanted Frank Beamer and I think that the guy would have come if the big money alums had just shut their pie holes. We just had to have a "Bryant man", didn't we? Not blaming you personally or anyone on this board but I do know that there was squealing like a stuck pig by some the big money alums and heavy hitters in Alabama athletics at the prospect of a "non Bryant man" taking over the helm at Alabama.

That being said, I do think that Alabama got hosed by the NCAA. If that makes me a "whiner", so be it.

 

[CrimsonMask]

I know I am about to get slammed here but........

I am going to ask the question anyway.

Were we (The University of Alabama) the untouchable during the Bryant years?
You hear a lot of complaints from other SEC schools that Bryant could just pull the Jedi mind trick on the NCAA by saying, "There is nothing for you to see here" and the NCAA would say...."there is nothing for us to see there".
I was just a young pup during the 70's but I have heard that Bryant was the reason for a lot of recruiting rules in place now.

Please don't misinterpret my post. The Bear was The Bear and I, like all Bama fans, have the utmost respect and appreciation for where he took our beloved University.
While there is no comparison for Bryant to fulmer, I just see the irony in the complaints some of us have had and what other schools have said about us.

 

[rolltideas]

I like chicken.

I like fair treatment as well.

At this point all my Tenn. pokes are mostly for humor's sake. You might as well laugh because the only way we can get back at UT at this point is to kick the crap out of them every chance we get, and to make fun of lard donkey and his Gravy + Blood Type. :biggrin2:

 

[TiderinMiss]

Dubose. I wanted Frank Beamer and I think that the guy would have come if the big money alums had just shut their pie holes. We just had to have a "Bryant man", didn't we? Not blaming you personally or anyone on this board but I do know that there was squealing like a stuck pig by some the big money alums and heavy hitters in Alabama athletics at the prospect of a "non Bryant man" taking over the helm at Alabama.

That being said, I do think that Alabama got hosed by the NCAA. If that makes me a "whiner", so be it.

I know, TiV. There were many who didn't think Dubose was a good hire (as I mentioned, I didn't want to se ehim hired, either.), but I remember the message boards, newspaper articles, polls, etc. where most Bama fans wanted Dubose, with many almost demanding that he get it.

And, I'm not accusing davefrat of being one of those, either. But, there are some who wanted Dubose, but now look back and want to blame the admin, etc.

I don't think it hurts to discuss blame, both inwardly and outwardly, because there is plenty of blame to go around on this merry-go-round, all the way from the top admin down to Joe Blow Pom-Pom shaker, and around to other schools in the SEC.

Bama was guilty of leaving the back door open, which allowed some snakes and rats to invade her pantry. I believe the back door is closed now, and a restock is in progress.

 

[davefrat]

I'm quite certain if Alabama has a transgression it been front page news. I don't know of any other program that stays under such a microscope even though we haven't been in the top 20 in some time.

I see no point in rehashing our past failures unless your an AUBURN FAN.

you know what you can do with your mirror.

slammer, since you find it necessary to question my allegiance, let me pose a simple query. did you:
1. graduate from bama?
2. teach at bama?
3. play club sports at bama?
4. marry a former bama athlete?

i can answer yes to all the above...so unless you can say as much or more, you know what you can do with your insinuations that someone's an auburn fan!

 

[RollTideNAlbertville]

I certainly did not want Mike Dubose to be our coach, I could not even stand to look at him much less want him to be our head Coach. I blame alot of our past on Mike Dubose and how he ran the program. He was in over his head from day one. No fan that I know of was responible for the trouble that Bama got into. I do not see how any true Bama fan would do the things that Logan Young and the other disassociated Boosters did if they really loved Alabama. The last thing I would want to do is to bring harm to something I love so much. Mike Dubose has not taken much of a stand on anything since he left, the man let Phillip Fulmer eat him alive.

I do hope that Dr. Witt is smart enough and strong enough to always rule the roost over the AD and any coach who might possibly attempt to over look any broken rule that would cause us grief.

 

[davefrat]

I know, TiV. There were many who didn't think Dubose was a good hire (as I mentioned, I didn't want to se ehim hired, either.), but I remember the message boards, newspaper articles, polls, etc. where most Bama fans wanted Dubose, with many almost demanding that he get it.

And, I'm not accusing davefrat of being one of those, either. But, there are some who wanted Dubose, but now look back and want to blame the admin, etc.

I don't think it hurts to discuss blame, both inwardly and outwardly, because there is plenty of blame to go around on this merry-go-round, all the way from the top admin down to Joe Blow Pom-Pom shaker, and around to other schools in the SEC.

Bama was guilty of leaving the back door open, which allowed some snakes and rats to invade her pantry. I believe the back door is closed now, and a restock is in progress.

i was sitting in phil's one evening right after we named dubose HC. my buddies and i were pretty much three sheets to the wind and a tv crew was interviewing patrons asking opinions of the choice. i can't remember what exactly was said, but i do know it was not favorable to dubose and the guy with the camera told the reporter "there's no way we can put these guys on the air."

 

[ihatefulmer]

Just because I think Roy Adams has paid all these recent players who have left to cost us schollarships down the road doesn'e mean I think UT is behind everything bad that happens at Bama.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

That's interesting, DF...

I was in a sports bar when "Pappy's" demise had just come on TV. One of the local TV reporters popped in with his camera man and spotted a table with some Bama gear around it - us. He begged and begged, but no one would go on camera. For one thing, we were in a bar - and it was the middle of the day... :eek2:

 

[HITIDE]

I certainly did not want Mike Dubose to be our coach, I could not even stand to look at him much less want him to be our head Coach. I blame alot of our past on Mike Dubose and how he ran the program. He was in over his head from day one. No fan that I know of was responible for the trouble that Bama got into. I do not see how any true Bama fan would do the things that Logan Young and the other disassociated Boosters did if they really loved Alabama. The last thing I would want to do is to bring harm to something I love so much. Mike Dubose has not taken much of a stand on anything since he left, the man let Phillip Fulmer eat him alive.

I do hope that Dr. Witt is smart enough and strong enough to always rule the roost over the AD and any coach who might possibly attempt to over look any broken rule that would cause us grief.

While it is true that Logan Young may have been guilty (probably was) as charged the other "boosters" were questionable. They were no where near the definition of booster as was the Sanford lady in Mobile (utk). The ncaa used a string of accusations (95% false) to build a damaging case against Bama. The Tennessee lawmakers made the accusations against LY a crime in order to gain proof of the violations, hoping to come back harder on Bama. The only "proof" they could obtain was the word of a confirmed liar and circumstantial evidence. Anyone that will look on such a miscarriage of justice and not want retribution (at least change) are either on the positive end or have their head in the sand.

 

[wastedmason]

Some of us just like to gripe. But the truth is most of us don't. While I agree whining is unbecoming, especially from Bama fans, after the past 2 seasons how can you blame us? Given the fact that other coaches, other schools fans, our own conference and our own governing body played a big role in the downfall of our football team.

Logan Young is guilty as h*ll and so were some of our coaches. He's gone those coaches are gone and we are paying the price. But the average Bama fan doesn't have to like it. And we don't. The truth is its a dog eat dog world and some will go to any "means" to bring you down and keep you down. Being called a cheater by every opposing teams fans, while may be true, is tough to digest knowing their school is just as guilty and even had a hand in our mess. I guess we just would like to see equal justice and I see no problem with that.

Now though it's time to move on, which most of us have but it would be wise not to forget who we are dealing with. Its bad enough to have our own stabbing us in the back so we really don't want any help from other willing opponents.

 

[davefrat]

my initial point is that there comes a time when you have to shut up an move on. it's been years now that people have been crowing about the vast conspiracy. in the early stages it was fine, but now it's just stale and worn.

anyone out there have a relative who has to tell you the same tale of woe (medical problem, cheating spouse, hangnail, bunion on the big toe) EVERY time you see them, even though it's been years since the thing happened?

what's the reaction from the rest of the room over time? at first it's like, "man, that's awful, i really feel for you." then it's like, "man, life's tough...but you gotta move on." finally, everyone cracks jokes before the person shows up and bets how long it will take for them to launch into the "story." eventually, "sweet little aunt katie" becomes "bitter old nutcase aunt katie."

in essence, even legitimate complaints voiced too often for too long can turn sympathetic persons into the butt of jokes.

 

[bayoutider]

Maybe it's time for those telling others to shut up to shut up too. There wasn't a post on the board for days till you picked at the scab again.

 

[BamaFanInHamilton]

Maybe it's time for those telling others to shut up to shut up too. There wasn't a post on the board for days till you picked at the scab again.

Well put, my man! WELL PUT!!!

RTR & GBA

 

[PattheCatinSaudi]

Well I'll fess up... I wanted to give DuBose a chance. But then again, I thought we should have given Mal Moore a shot instead of hiring Perkins. I was against Curry 100%. Didn't think he could coach, he proved me right.
I gree that we need to swallow our medicine and get on with thw process of winning football games.

 

[PattheCatinSaudi]

Oh yaeh.. I'm the son of an Alabama graduate..I graduated 1979. I was born in Druid City hospital in '54. I think we were playing fast and loose with the rules under Cottrell, but he had been doing the same thing at FSU and only got his wrist slaaped once or twice.

Do I think we deserved to be punished? Yes
Do I think our punishment fit the crime? No
Were we singled out? Yes
Should we just suck it up, clinch our jaws and move on? Yes

The NCAA is like the IRS.. they can't catch everybody who's breaking the rules so they target high profile programs and hammer them. Does anyone think for a minute that SMU was the only program in the SWC that was cheating? No, but the NCAA made them an example and crushed them. The rest took notice and either cleaned up their act or got more creative.

This too shall pass. :wink:

 

[bayoutider]

The university has moved on, it's the fans that still have the issues. It's like having someone come in and rob your house, shoot your pet and rape your wife. Sorry, but I'm not going to just suck it up and move on. Only a weakling or a coward will not defend himself. We have hashed out our faliures ad nauseam on this message board and to have this dragged around the block every few weeks as the voice of reason is pathetic in it's own right. Whiners whining about the whiners. Good grief, move on about moving on. It will be a long, long, long time before the fans forget this one.