News Article: Treasury secretary says US to hit debt limit on Jan. 19

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Padreruf

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Political theater isn't limited to just the politicians themselves. The voters also engage in this ludicrous spectacle. I kind of see this as audience participation in a Broadway show. Everyone in the building knows this is a presentation and not reality, but still they engage. The obvious difference is: what is happening in D.C. is not entertainment; it really is our current reality. I don't know that voters are necessarily "falling for it", but I could be wrong. Either way, the optics aren't good because that leaves only two possibilities: either voters live in a constant state of denial or most of them are just idiots.
Or both...Pogo: "We have met the enemy and he is us..."

Democracy requires a certain level of intelligence and education in order to work for all concerned. Unfortunately, all sides are open to manipulation via lies and half-truths. Huey Long says hello...
 

PaulD

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This is from a New York Times e-newsletter I get.

Routine crisis


The U.S. government hit the legal limit on how much money it can borrow yesterday, prompting fears that the country soon may not be able to pay its bills.
The fight over the debt limit, which is now more than $31 trillion, can sound technical, but it could affect everyone. If the U.S. defaults on its debts, it could shatter financial markets. Your 401(k) and other investments could follow. As the flow of money dries up, businesses could be forced to close or downsize, taking jobs with them.


“While no one really knows what would happen if you breach the debt limit, not many people would speculate that good stuff happens after that,” Christopher Campbell, a former Treasury official, told my colleagues Jim Tankersley and Alan Rappeport. “It’s a cascade of how bad it gets.”
It’s a grim scenario — one the country has flirted with repeatedly since the 1990s.


The good news: The government has time to act. Analysts estimate that the Treasury Department can use so-called extraordinary measures to avoid a default until the summer, giving Congress the next several months to pass a bill increasing the debt limit.
The bad news: Democrats and Republicans are divided. House Republicans say they want to use a debt-limit increase — and the threat of default — as leverage to cut government spending. Top Democrats have likened the Republican stance to a hostage-taking situation. The sides can’t agree even on whether to negotiate.


Today’s newsletter will explain the debt limit and how it became a constant source of near-crisis in the U.S.
Self-imposed limits


There is a lot of confusion around the debt limit, largely because it’s so odd. But it’s relatively uncomplicated.
Congress regularly passes government spending bills. Since this legislation typically spends more money than it brings in, it adds to the debt.


In most countries, that would be the end of the spending process, and the government would simply take on more debt. After all, Congress is effectively saying that it’s willing to add to the debt when it passes spending bills that do just that. If Congress wanted to reduce spending, those bills seem like the most logical avenue to address such concerns.
But the U.S. has an extra step in the process: a congressionally set debt limit. This caps how much money the U.S. can borrow, which is, essentially, a ceiling on spending. (“Debt ceiling” is another term often used to refer to the congressionally set limit.) If the U.S. breaches the debt limit, it can no longer borrow money, and has to default on its existing debts. (Denmark is the only other country with a similar debt ceiling, although it raises its cap well in advance of nearing it.)


For most of the debt limit’s century-long existence, increases were largely uncontroversial.
But that has changed over the past three decades. Republicans, in particular, have used the passage of bills increasing the limit as leverage to try to force spending cuts on Democratic administrations. Democrats, too, have used it as a political tool: In 2006, Joe Biden, then a senator, joined his Democratic colleagues in opposing a debt ceiling increase to protest the cost of tax cuts and the Iraq war.


A crucial ingredient in this brinkmanship is divided government. Raising the debt ceiling is less of a problem when the same party holds power in both chambers of Congress and the White House. But when the government is divided, it makes the current scenario possible: A Republican-controlled House threatens to block a debt-limit increase that Democrats who control the Senate and White House would like to pass.
“The fastest way to guarantee that we have debt rating problems is to keep spending money we don’t have, and keep piling up debt, and that’s what we’re doing,” Representative Chip Roy, a Texas Republican, told CNN.


In short: If lawmakers have a problem with spending, the debt ceiling offers a way to protest. But the willingness of some Republicans to risk going into default poses potentially dire consequences.
A central role


Why does this matter? Because of the crucial role that U.S. debt plays in the global financial system.
When the U.S. borrows money, it issues U.S. Treasuries. (Heard of bonds that help pay for wars? Treasuries are like that.)


Because the U.S. always pays its debts, the financial system treats Treasuries as a very safe investment. Governments, companies and people around the world buy American bonds and other securities as a way to ensure that their money is safe. They are so widely purchased, in fact, that they support much of the financial system — giving investors a backstop to take on riskier opportunities.
But if the U.S. can no longer pay its debts and defaults, the reliability and trust that make Treasuries such a safe investment vanish. Money once considered secure is now seen as precarious. That realization could spawn the equivalent of a bank run, as people rush to get their money out of the financial system. The system would then buckle, crushing everyone’s investments, big and small.


It’s as bad as it sounds. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, has said a U.S. debt default “would be financial Armageddon.”
So what can seem like a technical, political squabble can suddenly become very important to everyone. The TV show “The West Wing” captured this reality in 2005: “So this debt ceiling thing is routine, or the end of the world?” “Both.”
 

JDCrimson

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Defaulting on the US Treasury would be a cut to Social Security funding all by itself. The Social Security is one of the largest buyers of US Treasuries. SS uses the cash flows to pay retirement benefits. SS would immediately be insolvent.

If I am the Biden Administration, I would instruct the SS to delay Social Security benefits and to send a message to all those beneficiaries this is your Republican Party at work for you...

I would go on national TV and speak directly to the American people and break it down to them Big Bird style... This is what is going to happen to you with the Republicans playing these games. They are stealing money you have paid into the system. Hell, I would give them the phone numbers of the Magats and McCarthy. They want to kidnap immigrants and drop them off at VP Harris doorstep in the middle of the night. Two can play that game. Interrupt the cashflow of retired white people and drop it on their doorstep.
 

Padreruf

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Defaulting on the US Treasury would be a cut to Social Security funding all by itself. The Social Security is one of the largest buyers of US Treasuries. SS uses the cash flows to pay retirement benefits. SS would immediately be insolvent.

If I am the Biden Administration, I would instruct the SS to delay Social Security benefits and to send a message to all those beneficiaries this is your Republican Party at work for you...

I would go on national TV and speak directly to the American people and break it down to them Big Bird style... This is what is going to happen to you with the Republicans playing these games. They are stealing money you have paid into the system. Hell, I would give them the phone numbers of the Magats and McCarthy. They want to kidnap immigrants and drop them off at VP Harris doorstep in the middle of the night. Two can play that game. Interrupt the cashflow of retired white people and drop it on their doorstep.
If the desire is to create chaos, anger and confrontation, then this is the proper response. If the goal is to somehow create a better system of dealing with debt going forward, then this is ludicrous. The Repubs seem to be at a loss to deal with their role in all of this...and the Dems are sure not going to do so. I feel for my grandchildren as they will inherit a shell of a country.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I don't mean to sound calloused, but when it comes to "cutting things out of the budget", my employer has ZERO problems cutting costs and who it impacts. We were told today that we will be seeing "adjustments" in our health coverage which was a nice way of saying "you're all getting a pay cut" that equates to roughly 3-5 % of my family's direct take-home pay. :mad:

With the amount of our national debt, both tax revenues AND cutting expenses need to be fixed/adjusted at the same time. I'm sorry if the result of cutting costs means people take pay cuts due to lower funding or lose their jobs altogether. I'm sorry if it means the monies we're sending to other countries have to be reduced or eliminated altogether. But no one or no company has EVER put the importance of my paycheck and my family's well-being over what they feel is better for the financial solvency of the company as a whole.
 

twofbyc

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I don't mean to sound calloused, but when it comes to "cutting things out of the budget", my employer has ZERO problems cutting costs and who it impacts. We were told today that we will be seeing "adjustments" in our health coverage which was a nice way of saying "you're all getting a pay cut" that equates to roughly 3-5 % of my family's direct take-home pay. :mad:

With the amount of our national debt, both tax revenues AND cutting expenses need to be fixed/adjusted at the same time. I'm sorry if the result of cutting costs means people take pay cuts due to lower funding or lose their jobs altogether. I'm sorry if it means the monies we're sending to other countries have to be reduced or eliminated altogether. But no one or no company has EVER put the importance of my paycheck and my family's well-being over what they feel is better for the financial solvency of the company as a whole.
Or….or….OR…what is better for the shareholders, for publicly traded companies.
Wife’s company decided last spring that, if you are scheduled to be off on a national holiday (they have people working 7 days a week), you don’t get paid for the holiday.
It’s a high end senior living complex, and the residents were hit with three monthly increases last year; now, it’s costs over $7000/month.
They no longer purchase precut veggies (onions, bell peppers, etc.); staff (short handed- there is frequently only one in the kitchen for five hours, feeding 150+ people) now must cut chicken fingers from breasts (not boneless). And to top it off, they stopped paying a service to clean the hood; staff has to clean it. Countdown to a kitchen fire has begun.
Gotta keep those shareholders happy - until the administrators are chased off the property by an army of angry semi-mobile seniors tired of undercooked or late meals that, a lot of the time, tastes like crap anyway.
I’ve been begging the wife to quit because the stress is starting to take its toll.
 

twofbyc

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If the desire is to create chaos, anger and confrontation, then this is the proper response. If the goal is to somehow create a better system of dealing with debt going forward, then this is ludicrous. The Repubs seem to be at a loss to deal with their role in all of this...and the Dems are sure not going to do so. I feel for my grandchildren as they will inherit a shell of a country.
 

AWRTR

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Defaulting on the US Treasury would be a cut to Social Security funding all by itself. The Social Security is one of the largest buyers of US Treasuries. SS uses the cash flows to pay retirement benefits. SS would immediately be insolvent.

If I am the Biden Administration, I would instruct the SS to delay Social Security benefits and to send a message to all those beneficiaries this is your Republican Party at work for you...

I would go on national TV and speak directly to the American people and break it down to them Big Bird style... This is what is going to happen to you with the Republicans playing these games. They are stealing money you have paid into the system. Hell, I would give them the phone numbers of the Magats and McCarthy. They want to kidnap immigrants and drop them off at VP Harris doorstep in the middle of the night. Two can play that game. Interrupt the cashflow of retired white people and drop it on their doorstep.
You do realize this is the dumbest idea ever written down. My parents live SS check to SS check. When it doesn’t come they can’t eat. Political stunts are common but this will literally cause some people to not be able to eat, buy gas, or pay the power bill. Suggesting the president terrorize old people to vote like you want them to is a bridge too far.
 
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twofbyc

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You do realize this is the dumbest idea ever written down. My parents live SS check to SS check. When it doesn’t come they can’t eat. Political stunts are common but this will literally cause some people to not be able to eat, buy gas, or pay the power bill. Suggesting the president terrorize old people to vote like you want them to is a bridge too far.
Here’s the dilemma: we know Dems won’t ever go along with cutting SS OR Medicare. The Republicans SAY they want to, but millions of elderly, just like your parents, vote for them anyway because, in their words (yes, they’ve said it to me - I used to have predominantly older coworkers a couple of years ago - I’m 69) they don’t believe they’ll do it. Exact words, from 6 or 8 of them, directly to me.
How do you respond to that? I’m not quite in the same boat as your parents financially, but no matter what we’d like to think, we’re not middle class, economically. We don’t want to work until we die.
But I have a plan for whatever scenario comes to pass; if what JD posts about happens, the government will be feeding me. Least desirable of all options (especially for someone else) but I’m done fighting the ignorance and evil.
The debt is for what we’ve already “bought”; yes, future spending needs to be addressed but so do repealing Trump’s tax cuts (which were never “paid for” and Republicans were fine with that) and hiring more workers (immigrants) to fill the available unskilled/ low skilled jobs, of which there are likely millions. That economic boost would be a monumental benefit.
Y’all remember W’s war with Iraq? The funding for which he kept off the books but Obama absorbed? Yeah - we can’t have anymore of those. But if I have to give $100 (or more) a month to ensure Ukraine defeats the Russians. I’m down.
 
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crimsonaudio

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Here’s the dilemma: we know Dems won’t ever go along with cutting SS OR Medicare. The Republicans SAY they want to, but millions of elderly, just like your parents, vote for them anyway because, in their words (yes, they’ve said it to me - I used to have predominantly older coworkers a couple of years ago - I’m 69) they don’t believe they’ll do it.
The fundamental issue here is using those who rely on SS as political pawns is disgusting. I don't care if the repubs are threatening to cut off SS checks, the dems cannot stoop to the same level.

My parents worked hard and saved their entire lives - they don't need their SS checks to live, but they planned their retirement around it. Making people like them - especially people who need that check to survive - part of the political football game is about as low as you can go.

If the dems want to ever nibble away some of the older, conservative voters, joining the repubs in using them as political pawns is not the way to accomplish it.

Beyond political games, it's disgusting behavior. Surely at least one party is above this garbage.
 

JDCrimson

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Well what do you think the radical Republicans are doing? Caging kids, kidnapping immigrants, on and on and on. Attempting a coup... Now the Republicans want to cause a worldwide financial meltdown for what? Just so they can own the Libs? And take away the very social security and Medicare your parents are living on.

Its past time for people like them to reap what they sow. They will keep sowing chaos until it lands on their doorstep and in their belly...

You do realize this is the dumbest idea ever written down. My parents live SS check to SS check. When it doesn’t come they can’t eat. Political stunts are common but this will literally cause some people to not be able to eat, buy gas, or pay the power bill. Suggesting the president terrorize old people to vote like you want them to is a bridge too far.
 
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twofbyc

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and they shouldn't
And they won’t. Ever. The Republicans know that. There was a bipartisan panel years ago, IIRC was about the debt/deficit; their recommendations were cutting EVERYTHING and raising taxes. It was a joke; people talked about it (mostly ridicule) for a few months, then it went to sleep forever. Republicans are almost as stubborn about cutting the defense budget.
SS should be expanded (Medicare too); salary cap for SS withholding should be eliminated, not just raised.
We don’t depend on my SS to live now; but like someone said, we planned our retirement based on the fact it would be there. Without it, we’d have to make big changes, even before we become expats.
The solution is not complicated; but those with the power/money are not interested, and Americans suffer because of it. And the beat goes on….
 
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92tide

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And they won’t. Ever. The Republicans know that. There was a bipartisan panel years ago, IIRC was about the debt/deficit; their recommendations were cutting EVERYTHING and raising taxes. It was a joke; people talked about it (mostly ridicule) for a few months, then it went to sleep forever. Republicans are almost as stubborn about cutting the defense budget.
SS should be expanded (Medicare too); salary cap for SS withholding should be eliminated, not just raised.
We don’t depend on my SS to live now; but like someone said, we planned our retirement based on the fact it would be there. Without it, we’d have to make big changes, even before we become expats.
The solution is not complicated; but those with the power/money are not interested, and Americans suffer because of it. And the beat goes on….
i would add medicaid to the expansion list
 

AWRTR

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Well what do you think the radical Republicans are doing? Caging kids, kidnapping immigrants, on and on and on. Attempting a coup... Now the Republicans want to cause a worldwide financial meltdown for what? Just so they can own the Libs? And take away the very social security and Medicare your parents are living on.

Its past time for people like them to reap what they sow. They will keep sowing chaos until it lands on their doorstep and in their belly...
Punishing innocent senior adults indiscriminately isn’t the answer. If the answer to bad behavior is more bad behavior then we are done as a country.
 

Tug Tide

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The fundamental issue here is using those who rely on SS as political pawns is disgusting. I don't care if the repubs are threatening to cut off SS checks, the dems cannot stoop to the same level.

My parents worked hard and saved their entire lives - they don't need their SS checks to live, but they planned their retirement around it. Making people like them - especially people who need that check to survive - part of the political football game is about as low as you can go.

If the dems want to ever nibble away some of the older, conservative voters, joining the repubs in using them as political pawns is not the way to accomplish it.

Beyond political games, it's disgusting behavior. Surely at least one party is above this garbage.
That’s exactly why I proposed using the future infrastructure projects…
 
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JDCrimson

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So if they get their way that is what the Republicans want. If we default on our debt, it wont matter if whether one is living on social security or not. We cannot let them hold for ransom our country.

What you dont seem to understand is the White House should say to the House if you don't want to raise the debt ceiling then you tell us who to pay and not pay. You, the House, if you want cuts to SS, introduce the legislation and if you can get it passed we will enforce it. Let. them. own. it.

Punishing innocent senior adults indiscriminately isn’t the answer. If the answer to bad behavior is more bad behavior then we are done as a country.
 
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