Tua's Heisman Campaign watch

[DzynKingRTR]

There is no truly logical argument to be made that Murray's performance was better than Tua's. None.

Yes, some people can argue that Murray was more valuable, but that doesn't mean he was better, not at all simply that he was more important to his team and this is not an MVP award.

Otherwise, pretty much any logic at all shows that Tua did as well against better competition. That's all there is to it. Tua is the one that revolutionized Alabama's offense. Tua is the one doing something special and unique. Tua is the one breaking records. Murray is the one doing exactly what the Oklahoma QB did last year.

But... they want to give it to Murray, that's all there is to it. Just like, if you look at what the media has done with the AP award they don't want to give it to Alabama players.

You nailed it. They want to give it to Murray, and they will jump thru every hoop they can to justify their decision. What they fail to mention is you could take any of the top 5 QBs and they would put up similar or better numbers. Tua, Haskins, Grier, Minshew, and Milton would all put up crazy numbers in the offense.

 

[UAllday]

The AP vote pretty much revealed all the problems with the Heisman trophy. Those voters do not decide the Heisman entirely, but the media makes up most of the voters, so they can poison the well so to speak. The fact that the AP voters would pick Murray 3/1 demonstrates how off they are. I can understand some picking Murray, I can understand there being some debate, but no way on earth it's that lopsided. Not when Tua is the one on an undefeated team, Tua is the one who played better defenses, Tua is the one that revolutionized an offense, and Tua is a mere 2 rating points below Murray.

The real travesty is the long term voting pattern from the AP. They have given player of the year award since 1998. 5 to Oklahoma quarterbacks, 0 to Alabama players. Yet, it is the Alabama players who have accomplished the most, both in college and in the NFL. Just look at this list.

Oklahoma quarterbacks who won AP Player of the Year awards:
Josh Heupel
Jason White
Sam Bradford
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray

Alabama candidates who didn't win AP Player of the Year awards:
Shaun Alexander
Mark Ingram
Trent Richardson
AJ McCarron
Amari Cooper
Derek Henry
Tua Tagovailoa

In fairness, there were probably a couple Oklahoma candidates I'm overlooking, that were better than Heupel and White, but the fact remains they gave the award to those guys but decided Ingram, Henry, and Tua didn't deserve it. I'm not saying that none of the Oklahoma QBs deserved the award, but I am saying there's no way on earth it should be anything worse than 4-3, and 5-0 is just an insult to our intelligence (I understand they weren't usually head to head like this year, but there's no question that the AP's voting pattern was "Oklahoma QB good, Alabama player bad").

The fact that DH didn't win it says all that I need to know, truly don't care why. What he did that year still has me in awe. I have never seen anyone dominate on a football field the way that he did.

 

[TideEngineer08]

You nailed it. They want to give it to Murray, and they will jump thru every hoop they can to justify their decision. What they fail to mention is you could take any of the top 5 QBs and they would put up similar or better numbers. Tua, Haskins, Grier, Minshew, and Milton would all put up crazy numbers in the offense.

I believe if Tua is in that offense he has 6000 yards passing and 60 TDs.

 

[12Namath12]

If Tua does not win it, the whole thing is a sham.

 

[CoastGhost]

In fairness, the performances of both players are comparable. They are in the same league. I am afraid politics and Bama fatigue will shift enough voters to Murray, and Tua's injury/performance in the SECGG gives them a rationalization to vote that way. They now have cover to do what they want to do but know they should not.

That said, Murray winning the Heisman would light a hot fire under Tua along with the Bama defense, eager to prove those voters wrong.

 

[81usaf92]

The fact that DH didn't win it says all that I need to know, truly don't care why. What he did that year still has me in awe. I have never seen anyone dominate on a football field the way that he did.

It’s kinda hard to fault them for picking a guy that just broke Barry Sanders’s all purpose record. I’m actually kinda shocked Mccaffrey didn’t get more 1st place votes in the heisman. But then again Deshaun Watson was there taking some away.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

It’s kinda hard to fault them for picking a guy that just broke Barry Sanders’s all purpose record. I’m actually kinda shocked Mccaffrey didn’t get more 1st place votes in the heisman. But then again Deshaun Watson was there taking some away.

Yeah, but they understood how he was getting that total too.

 

[KrAzY3]

Yeah, but they understood how he was getting that total too.

Yup, kick return yards are cheap.

No one thinks Brian Mitchell was as good as Jerry Rice or Walter Payton.

 

[81usaf92]

Yeah, but they understood how he was getting that total too.

Yeah but it’s still ridiculous that he got 2k rushing, 700 receiving, and 1 k returning. It’s still something that you really don’t see often. I think both awards that year got it right, both players needed to be awarded but Henry deserved the heisman.

 

[CB4]

So Tua is the clear front runner the majority of the season, banged up the last third of it, rarely plays in the fourth quarter, has over 200 less snaps than his nearest challenger, and suddenly ONE GAME is enough to catapult that challenger past you? And let’s not even consider in that one game he was injured TWICE against the #4 team in the nation when he had his worst game?

If they give it to Murray, it will be just that; a gift.

I simply don’t get it. And many of the Heisman voters apparently don’t either.

 

[BamaFlum]

Part of me wants so badly for Tua to get the accolades he deserves.

But there is a spiteful side of me that wants them to give it to Murray and have Saban and the team get all Wyatt Earp on the college playoffs.

https://youtu.be/dDpQmCGjEPc


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[crimsonaudio]

FWIW, 7 of the 10 writers polled by CFN predict Tua will win the Heisman...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

So Tua is the clear front runner the majority of the season, banged up the last third of it, rarely plays in the fourth quarter, has over 200 less snaps than his nearest challenger, and suddenly ONE GAME is enough to catapult that challenger past you? And let’s not even consider in that one game he was injured TWICE against the #4 team in the nation when he had his worst game?

If they give it to Murray, it will be just that; a gift.

I simply don’t get it. And many of the Heisman voters apparently don’t either.

It's human nature. Normally, it's far, far better to lose early in the season, when W/L records are considered (normally - the LSU loss is what cost UGA, not Bama). It's just fresher in the mind. It was a bad visual to be the last one in the voters' minds...

 

[danb]

Murray is deserving of the award, but Tua is more deserving in my honest opinion, looking at both bodies of work with my crimson colored glasses on the table.

Some of the reasons given for the sudden shift to Murray are ridiculous to me. This week I have heard several talking heads with Heisman votes, give their argument of Murray over Tua. They say that you take Tua away from Bama, they still win the majority of their games with Jalen, but take Murray away from OU and they only maybe win 6-7 games. Although that’s probably true, it ignores the unique situation of Bama having 2 QB’s that could not only start at any top tier program in the country, but win there as well. They also fail to look at the fact that Tua was good enough to bench that 2 year 2 loss starter, and was injured at the beginning of the SECCG.

I didn’t think it was an MVP on your team award, but then again regardless of what the Heisman website statement is of criteria to win the award, it will be won by who the majority of the media members with votes and the prior winners say wins. I knew not to go by their statement of “Most Outstanding College Football Player In The US, Whose Performance Best Exhibits The Pursuit Of Excellence WITH INTEGRITY”, along about the time Scam, Manziel, and Winston won it. I know this year both of the top two appear to fit this criteria perfectly, but my point is that the award is purely a stat + what have you done lately award for the majority of the voters. I’ve heard several talking heads say “it’s just human nature to react more to the last thing you see, and that’s why the last game holds so much weight in the voting”. I understand what they mean, but thats a pretty poor excuse for being lazy at your job if indeed that’s the case. I keep holding out hope that a lot of the talk this past week of Murray running away with the award and Tua has no chance, has been perpetuated by ESPN to generate viewers. We shall find out tonight!


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[TIDE-HSV]

Murray is deserving of the award, but Tua is more deserving in my honest opinion, looking at both bodies of work with my crimson colored glasses on the table.

Some of the reasons given for the sudden shift to Murray are ridiculous to me. This week I have heard several talking heads with Heisman votes, give their argument of Murray over Tua. They say that you take Tua away from Bama, they still win the majority of their games with Jalen, but take Murray away from OU and they only maybe win 6-7 games. Although that’s probably true, it ignores the unique situation of Bama having 2 QB’s that could not only start at any top tier program in the country, but win there as well. They also fail to look at the fact that Tua was good enough to bench that 2 year 2 loss starter, and was injured at the beginning of the SECCG.

I didn’t think it was an MVP on your team award, but then again regardless of what the Heisman website statement is of criteria to win the award, it will be won by who the majority of the media members with votes and the prior winners say wins. I knew not to go by their statement of “Most Outstanding College Football Player In The US, Whose Performance Best Exhibits The Pursuit Of Excellence WITH INTEGRITY”, along about the time Scam, Manziel, and Winston won it. I know this year both of the top two appear to fit this criteria perfectly, but my point is that the award is purely a stat + what have you done lately award for the majority of the voters. I’ve heard several talking heads say “it’s just human nature to react more to the last thing you see, and that’s why the last game holds so much weight in the voting”. I understand what they mean, but thats a pretty poor excuse for being lazy at your job if indeed that’s the case. I keep holding out hope that a lot of the talk this past week of Murray running away with the award and Tua has no chance, has been perpetuated by ESPN to generate viewers. We shall find out tonight!


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See my post right above. It's human nature and it extends way beyond sports...

 

[uafan4life]

Yeah but it’s still ridiculous that he got 2k rushing, 700 receiving, and 1 k returning. It’s still something that you really don’t see often. I think both awards that year got it right, both players needed to be awarded but Henry deserved the heisman.

He really got about 200 yards returning, though, from a practical standpoint.

If you catch a ball two yards deep in the end-zone and return it to the 23 yard line, that shouldn't be a 25-yard return; it should be a negative-2-yard return...

 

[danb]

See my post right above. It's human nature and it extends way beyond sports...

I read your post after I typed my reply, and that is 100% correct. It is human nature. It’s also human nature to be biased for your alma mater or favorite team, yet people who work in sports news/reporting who are good at their jobs have an obligation to be unbiased. I know many aren’t, and it’s very hard to be totally unbiased, but that is their job. That’s why I said it is a poor excuse for being lazy at your job (turning on the last games of the season and letting that be the biggest influence on your decision) yet the anonymous vote to the public allows that very thing to easily happen more often than not.

I’m still hoping a lot of this late indecision was generated and spun by ESPN to get everyone to tune in tonight!


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[Jessica4Bama]

Tua just said on game day that he’ll be out of his boot for the ceremony tonight and he’s able to walk on it. So sounds like he’s making good progress.

 

[81usaf92]

He really got about 200 yards returning, though, from a practical standpoint.

If you catch a ball two yards deep in the end-zone and return it to the 23 yard line, that shouldn't be a 25-yard return; it should be a negative-2-yard return...

Even if you take away 10 yards and say he started at the end of the end zone on every kick off and punt prior to the bowl ( even though that doesn’t matter). Mccaffery is breaking Barry Sanders’s record by 100 yards.

He had 36 KOR and 1052 yards. So even if you say he is starting at the end of the end zone on all of them that is still 692 yards and close to a 20 yard average return. It would bring him to 3350 instead of 3800.

 

[rgw]

Even if you take away 10 yards and say he started at the end of the end zone on every kick off and punt prior to the bowl ( even though that doesn’t matter). Mccaffery is breaking Barry Sanders’s record by 100 yards.

He had 36 KOR and 1052 yards. So even if you say he is starting at the end of the end zone on all of them that is still 692 yards and close to a 20 yard average return. It would bring him to 3350 instead of 3800.

His KR yards were vastly overrated. He was a middle-of-the-road kick returner who almost always elected to run even when he often would do no better than taking a knee in the endzone. All those 18-20 yards of returns at or around the endzone add up over a season.