it has a lot more to do with what misogynistic old dudes did to retain power than what God's will is.
Was Lilith the First Wife of Adam?
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right. Women were treated lesser in society as a whole. I don't take Lot's position as "God told me to offer up my daughters" so much as "Hell, take these aggravatin' women and leave my house guests alone."
by today's standards, yes. By the standards of the time, probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow.
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Yeah, that was one of those Bible stories that usually passed by without comment in the church I grew up in. That and the whole (Ezekiel 4:12-13) thing about eating barley cakes made out of human feces.
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Hmmmmm I think I saw Andrew Zimmern eat one of those on Bizarre Foods. Tasted like a mix of spam and grout.:eek2:
Honestly, I've never spent too much time on a lot of the OT stories. Not to sound like a heathen, but I have a hard time giving them much relevance, other than historical background. So, when Lot offers up his daughters, I take it as a product of the time in which they lived.
Hmmm so the Bible is, like our constitution, a living document capable of being rewritten based on the current values in society? Interesting....
I never said the Bible was rewritten. I said that when Lot offered up his daughters to spare the guests in his home, it probably wasn't a crazy concept in that time. If the Bible were like our constitution and capable of being rewritten based on current values in society, they'd probably write out the entire OT and a good bit of the NT these days. I value the OT pretty much for its historical information and significance only.....how's that rewriting anything?
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The first few verses of Genesis 22 reveal that God ordered Abraham to offer up his only son, Isaac as a burnt offering.
There also were several violent deaths of men, starting with Cains murder of Abel (Genesis 4).
My point is there was violence against both genders in the Bible.
Although, it is true, the Bible teaches that women should "submit themselves to their husbands". This isn't referring just to the bedroom.
Esther (in the book of Esther) was treated as royalty by the King of Persia. In fact, she was given the title of Queen. She was in a position of great influence in the land.
Today, most Christian scholars emphasize that women are to be treated with great respect and marriage is an equal partnership.
Why do you work so hard to find reasons to not believe? All it takes is a little faith.
II Timothy 4:3&4
II Timothy 4:3&4
And I'll add to your excellent point. God created man and woman different and he did so because they were to play different roles. As you've stated it was to be a partnership, a team effort. In every TEAM effort there has to be someone that has to lead. God designated man to be the leader but it doesn't mean woman means any less to God. He loves both equally and both are just as important. He held woman in such high regard he instructed man to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Anybody want to know how much Christ loved the church? He died for it. He endured great pain and suffering because he love the church so much. Man is to hold woman in the same regard. Can't get much higher status than that.
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The thing most of you are forgetting is who the guest were. they were angles sent from God and Lot knew this and was trying to keep the towns men from them. offering his daughters is the same as people pushing others out of the way of the bullet and taking it themselves. He was trying to cover up the sins of the town and we all know why the town was destroyed.
Also don't believe everything thing you see on tv. There are also shows about human caused global warming and yet we are seeing one of the coldest winters in history. Not to start a different topic but just showing that some things are not as they seem and you should research it yourself and draw your own conclusion.
Also don't believe everything thing you see on tv. There are also shows about human caused global warming and yet we are seeing one of the coldest winters in history. Not to start a different topic but just showing that some things are not as they seem and you should research it yourself and draw your own conclusion.
I think I need to clarify one thing. You speak of Lot doing this and doing that as if it actually happened. As a scientist, I find Genesis to be the ramblings of ignorant goat herders. As such I don't think Lot actually did or did not do anything. When I speak of the misogynistic attitudes it displays I am talking more about the old dudes about a 1000 yrs ago that decided to put this in the bible. Whether he actually did it or not, or even existed, is irrelevant in my book.
We can tell how "irrelevant" it is to you. You've only piped in your arrogant toned answers all throughout the thread. And I'm not sure why the need to add the "As a scientist" remark. As if it brought any credibility to your response. Being a scientist or not is pretty irrelevant in my book. Weather men and scientists are one of the few jobs that you can be wrong more than you are right and still stay employed.
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It's On A Slab
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Why is it arrogance to state that the Bible is full of a myriad of contradictions, and (dare I say) parables and fables?
True arrogance is to take the entire annal and attempt to state definitively that everything that occurs in the text is 100% true and actually happened.
fair enough, but this is what makes it hard to debate anything in religion. You don't believe, I do believe.....how the hell are we supposed to argue? You'll never see it my way, I'll never see it yours. The most we can do is say WHAT we believe and leave it at that. No hard feelings.
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