Why do we have no run game?

[Bamabuzzard]

Some portion of this has to be credited to SEC defenses. He didn’t face these Dlines at Wash.

I agree, we have to take that into consideration as well. The staff has a lot to work on this offseason to get better at the run game for next season, that's for sure.

 

[arthurdawg]

On a positive note... It does seem that they understand very well that the run game needs improvement.

Hope it happens.

I also hope that we tighten up a bit and get back to what worked earlier in the year, less trickeration, keep occasionally going long to make defenses guard it, and mix up the running a bit better.

 

[BamaFanInTally]

The Film Guy does a heckuva job breaking down some of the reasons our running game is so bad. He says part of it is the running back and how he (Miller) approaches the LOS. But A LOT of it is our offensive linemen take bad angles to their blocks and have bad footwork. He dissects about 20 plays and shows all of these things in play. We're just not a fundamentally sound run blocking team. Too many guys getting their pads over their feet, not taking the correct angles to their blocks and having bad footwork.

IMO our lack of an effective running game is primarily on the Oline. The problems stem from poor Oline coaching, lack of leverage, power, and scheme. To totally fix it we need to go back to square one in the spring.

Could it be improved now in season? Yes, some. I’ve (not jokingly) said that DeBoer should reach out to Joe Pendry for a short term consulting role. Pendry knows more about optimizing Oline play than the entire coaching staff in the building. But it really needs to get fixed in the off season. We can have both a dynamic passing game and an effective running game.

 

[graydogg85]

I agree, we have to take that into consideration as well. The staff has a lot to work on this offseason to get better at the run game for next season, that's for sure.

BhamtoTexas beat me to it. This staff has never consistently faced SEC-level talent in the defensive front seven. Accordingly, they could get by with dedicating more practice reps to passing concepts in the past.

Maybe they are figuring this out, but IMO this isn’t a mid-season adjustment situation. More of an off-season retooling.

I would add that we’ve really only faced two defenses this season that would be considered “bad” - Tennessee, who ranks 97th in total defense and ULM who ranks 89th. Every other defense we’ve faced this season is in the Top 60, and all but one of those (Vandy at 58th) is in the Top 45. So 6 of our 9 opponents have been ranked in the top 30-ish percent of all defenses nationally.

Aside from Eastern Illinois, it doesn’t get any easier. OU is 7th in total defense (4th in rushing defense), and while Auburn is 43rd in total defense, they are 9th in rushing defense.

I would be shocked if we saw dramatic improvement from the run game given the above. I think our own defense (which is ranked 18th nationally) along with Ty and the receivers will have to carry this team for the rest of the season.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

BhamtoTexas beat me to it. This staff has never consistently faced SEC-level talent in the defensive front seven. Accordingly, they could get by with dedicating more practice reps to passing concepts in the past.

Maybe they are figuring this out, but IMO this isn’t a mid-season adjustment situation. More of an off-season retooling.

I would add that we’ve really only faced two defenses this season that would be considered “bad” - Tennessee, who ranks 97th in total defense and ULM who ranks 89th. Every other defense we’ve faced this season is in the Top 60, and all but one of those (Vandy at 58th) is in the Top 45. So 6 of our 9 opponents have been ranked in the top 30-ish percent of all defenses nationally.

Aside from Eastern Illinois, it doesn’t get any easier. OU is 7th in total defense (4th in rushing defense), and while Auburn is 43rd in total defense, they are 9th in rushing defense.

I would be shocked if we saw dramatic improvement from the run game given the above. I think our own defense (which is ranked 18th nationally) along with Ty and the receivers will have to carry this team for the rest of the season.

I'm just afraid teams are starting to make the adjustments of taking away the mid to intermediate routes and are forcing us to either throw deep or run the ball. Which we don't do either very well. I think this is why USCe had so much success against us. They put speed rushers on the edges and flooded the zone where we would normally go to the intermediate stuff. It caused Ty to hold the ball longer and I noticed it in the LSU game as well. I can guarantee you Venebles, with two weeks to prepare, is going to have the most confusing defensive scheme Ty has seen all season.

 

[arthurdawg]

Well... One positive may be that the staff has proven they are a solid unit and that they are aware of and going to work towards fixing the problems. Glad they have the time to focus on it and adjust to the ferocity of an SEC defense for the next couple of years.

 

[SkullDuckery]

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[gtgilbert]

At the 14:10 mark, Bama runs a wildcat with the QB and TE showing jet sweep act.
Here is the line-up.
View attachment 54241
It would see this is the intention.
View attachment 54242
This is what happens.
View attachment 54243
The right Guard does not take a good angle at the LB, who takes on the block with his inside shoulder, defeats the block and slides outside behind the DE who is crashing (not respecting the jet sweep action at all) and the LB meets the running back just outside the crashing end, tackling him for no gain. That looks like a not great play design, plus expecting more of the right tackle than he can deliver or a coaching failure to urge him to the correct aim point on the LB.
If in this case, the defense is giving no respect to the QB jet sweep action, maybe you do give the QB the ball, and he has a TE paralleling his movement to serve as a blocker for him to pick up some yardage.
Anyway, it seems to be a combination of not great play design, plus almost good enough blocking resulting in no gain.

Good illustration and it highlights something I have started to notice on a lot of defenses. While it used to be standard procedure for the end guy on the LOS to have outside contain and be the read point for a lot of these sone read type plays, many defenses are now coaching that guy to crash to the inside no matter what and putting the edge contain responsibility on another player - in this case the LB who was flowing over to the edge immediately at the snap. defenses have found just getting inside to mess up the likely mesh point and then counter with a faster player like the ILB works better

 

[gtgilbert]

Some portion of this has to be credited to SEC defenses. He didn’t face these Dlines at Wash.

This 100%. SEC lineman of the same size are faster, and get through the gaps behind pulling OL faster, or if left on the LOS expecting a pulling OL to get there, the SEC DL and LBs will get there much faster.

 

[Tidewater]

Good illustration and it highlights something I have started to notice on a lot of defenses. While it used to be standard procedure for the end guy on the LOS to have outside contain and be the read point for a lot of these sone read type plays, many defenses are now coaching that guy to crash to the inside no matter what and putting the edge contain responsibility on another player - in this case the LB who was flowing over to the edge immediately at the snap. defenses have found just getting inside to mess up the likely mesh point and then counter with a faster player like the ILB works better

I certainly think that the jet sweep motion by Simpson was intended to force the end wide. The problem was, the end was not buying it (or aas you state, was responsibile for crashing in and mucking up whatever was going to happen inside and relying on the LB to set the edge.

 

[December05]

I agree with the Bolded.

But it might be unfair to label the entire RB room as only mediocre.

We'd need 1988 Barry Sanders for a RB to look above average with current OL Blocking.

Imo Daniel Hill has Yeldon, Lacy, Jacobs type potential but he's just now getting some increased playing time and behind a very poor OL.

Jam was looking much improved to begin the year but he suffered a pretty nasty concussion and has not been the same since. He honestly shouldn't even have been playing again yet.

Riley has also shown some potential to run hard with some slashing ability and reminds me a little bit of Damien Harris.

AK Dear is going to be a PHENOM. He's almost as fast as Gibbs and faster than Drake. Why he's on the bench being RS is a complete mystery to me. We could as least use him in the Passing game as a WR to try and get him in space until he's up to speed on Blocking.

It's also worth noting that Haynes has had twice the yardage production in 7 games w/ Mich than 2 years at Bama. He's gaining 1.5 more YPC.

Our OL is HORRENDOUS.

Bringing up the younger backs is important. Aside from learning pass protections, running back is something a young player can see the field early with if he’s just that good. AK Dear saw the field for all of about three minutes this season and gave us the most electrifying play out of the backfield on the season. Granted, it was against Monroe - it was still burst and acceleration we haven’t seen since. If we don’t show a solid commitment to improving our ground game, how do we hold onto him and Crowell and the like? If I’m a running back and don’t have any prior allegiance, we’re not even on my radar to select. We only have so long to struggle before we lose the ability to get top RB prospects.

 

[Joefus]

Some portion of this has to be credited to SEC defenses. He didn’t face these Dlines at Wash.

True and he also had one of the best o line coaches in college ball at the time. People forget Scott huff was the coach then and has since seamlessly made the move to the nfl and hasn’t missed a beat. If we had huff I think some of this is negated or at least half way fixed. Our guy is a great recruiter but not a great coach it would appear. Same thing with our rb coach. We hired him off one year of good production at unc and a rep as a good recruiter. No real production from his guys so far. Year 4? I’d say we need to move on from both. Recruiting isn’t as important now that there’s 20 decent backs in the portal every year

 

[editder]

I agree with the Bolded.

But it might be unfair to label the entire RB room as only mediocre.

We'd need 1988 Barry Sanders for a RB to look above average with current OL Blocking.

Imo Daniel Hill has Yeldon, Lacy, Jacobs type potential but he's just now getting some increased playing time and behind a very poor OL.

Jam was looking much improved to begin the year but he suffered a pretty nasty concussion and has not been the same since. He honestly shouldn't even have been playing again yet.

Riley has also shown some potential to run hard with some slashing ability and reminds me a little bit of Damien Harris.

AK Dear is going to be a PHENOM. He's almost as fast as Gibbs and faster than Drake. Why he's on the bench being RS is a complete mystery to me. We could as least use him in the Passing game as a WR to try and get him in space until he's up to speed on Blocking.

It's also worth noting that Haynes has had twice the yardage production in 7 games w/ Mich than 2 years at Bama. He's gaining 1.5 more YPC.

Our OL is HORRENDOUS.

This is exactly right. And remember that when we had Haynes last year he was generally less productive than Miller, so unless he’s made a quantum leap in ability (or unless something else was going on behind the scenes with him last year), there’s no reason to expect that he would be doing any better than Miller this year if he were still on the team.

 

[editder]

On a positive note... It does seem that they understand very well that the run game needs improvement.

Hope it happens.

I also hope that we tighten up a bit and get back to what worked earlier in the year, less trickeration, keep occasionally going long to make defenses guard it, and mix up the running a bit better.

I don’t mind a trick play or two as long as they are well conceived and don’t take forever to develop. Sark and Lane were masters at it. But when I’m sitting on my couch thinking a play is stupid long before it even starts to fall apart, I have to wonder why people who make a lot of money to design plays thought it was a good idea.

 

[tideindc]

I would love to know what our longest run has been ( by a running back) in an SEC game this yr.

 

[arthurdawg]

I don’t mind a trick play or two as long as they are well conceived and don’t take forever to develop. Sark and Lane were masters at it. But when I’m sitting on my couch thinking a play is stupid long before it even starts to fall apart, I have to wonder why people who make a lot of money to design plays thought it was a good idea.

We definitely shouldn't stop trickerating, throwing long, or mixing in runs, just need to tighten up and take the easy yardage when there and mix things up a bit better. My sense is that they have really been working these plays to try and make them work and give other teams things to think about.

 

[arthurdawg]

I would love to know what our longest run has been ( by a running back) in an SEC game this yr.

Longest run period was 56 yards by Dear at LA Monroe.

Per back:

Jam 22 at Vandy 12 at MIzzou
Riley 22 at La Monroe
Hill 22 at La Monroe and 13 at Tennessee
Young 6
Washington 8

Germie had a 25 yard run to ice South Carolina.

Anyway you slice it, we have been historically bad.

 

[BamaMoon]

I would highly recommend watching Brooks Austin's film breakdown on Alabama's running game at LSU which he just posted on YT this morning. He pretty much nails everything wrong with our running game and very little is scheme/playcalling problems. In a nutshell:
1. Too many iso blocks, not enough combos (scheme or OL coaching?)
2. Poor OL footwork (particularly adjusting our footwork to the DL moves)
3. Poor timing by RB (Jam in particular) on when to break down and hit the crease
4. Not enough carries by #4

His general conclusion: Lots to clean up but much more on execution than scheme.

I'm a little late to the discussion. I haven't watched it yet, but even a "lay" person can see that #3 and #4 are true.

Jam is timid and hesitates at the beginning of his handoffs (even on the ones where he makes some positive yardage). Notice the difference on the runs and when he catches a pas in the flats. He accelerates immediately on the passes when he's in the open field. So it's either a vision issue of needing time to see the creases OR he's playing timidly because of his injury.

And Hill needs more touches. Even on the inside gap runs he's hitting the hole faster and on the outside runs when we pull Brailsworth or a guard this is almost always one of our better runs. Wish we would do it more!

 

[BamaMoon]

I’ve weighed in on other threads, but IMO the biggest reason for the run game struggles is that our offense is essentially a modified version of the Air Raid. We use a lot of the same terminology. We do have tight ends and some power formations, and there’s a more concerted attempt at balance, but otherwise it’s the Air Raid. It’s DeBoer’s scheme regardless of who calls plays, but historically it tends to get even more pass heavy when Grubb is calling plays. Last season was a complete aberration. It was DeBoer and Sheridan realizing that we had a track star QB who couldn’t successfully throw the ball 35 times per game, and so they (wisely) adjusted accordingly. Even last season, production from the running backs was lackluster at best.

A lot of folks have said “they had a 1,000 yard rusher at Washington” and that’s true, but as a team they still only averaged 118 rushing yards per game in 2023 (pretty much in line with our season thus far). And that was against PAC-12 defenses.

I think there’s an element of Grubb trying to run the ball because “by golly, we have to”, but he also abandons it for long stretches like you’d expect an Air Raid offense to do. I think at one point against LSU, we threw the ball on 17 out of 18 plays.

For better or worse, this is the DeBoer offense. We knew this when he was hired. The run game can get marginally better with personnel who are better suited (i.e. lighter offensive linemen and more Kevin Riley type backs), but honestly I don’t think the pure RB run game is ever going to be a point of huge emphasis from this staff, largely by design.

For all the complaints about the OL, I think for the most part they’ve been pretty darn good in pass protection this season. I don’t consider this a coaching issue so much as a scheme issue. Even if they change OL coaches, DeBoer isn’t going to hire someone who coaches power running OL techniques. It would be someone else with experience in a similar system. When DeBoer was hired and his OL coach at Washington didn’t migrate, there was a lot of talk about bringing in one of Mike Leach’s former OL coaches (can’t recall the name).

Thing is, this type of system can still be pretty successful IF we have elite QB, elite WR and elite defensive play on a consistent basis. It does put a ton of pressure on those three elements though.

I think the idea that you absolutely have to be able to run the ball is overvalued in the modern game - and frankly, with NIL and increased parity it will become increasingly harder to do so. Look at the NFL - 120 rushing yards is a banner day for most pro teams.

I believe you nail it with this post too. And if you look at our QB room, as it stands right now, and then look at the guys we are recruiting all the way out to 2027 recruits (including Haven), I believe this confirms that our offense will run through elite QB play with a sprinkled-in running attack.

We should only hope that Ty (as good as he's been) will kinda be like CNS's Greg McElroy as future QBs start to understand and deliver on the potential of CKD's system!!!

 

[tideindc]

Longest run period was 56 yards by Dear at LA Monroe.

Per back:

Jam 22 at Vandy 12 at MIzzou
Riley 22 at La Monroe
Hill 22 at La Monroe and 13 at Tennessee
Young 6
Washington 8

Germie had a 25 yard run to ice South Carolina.

Anyway you slice it, we have been historically bad.

Thanks for this. So, with the exception of Jam going for 22 ag Vandy, our most explosive run by a running back ( not wr) in non cupcake game is Hill going for 13. Amazing.