Why more young men in Germany are turning to the far right

[Tidewater]

German election results are in.
CDU/CSU 28.5%
AfD 20.5%
SPD 16.4%
The Greens 12%
Die Linke 8.6%

Because Germany had Proportional Representation (PR), you must win at least 5% to get a seat in the Bundestag.
Going to be a weird coalition, especially if the CSU/CSU stick with their "no coalition wioth the AfD" pledge. That means the CDU/CSU must form a coalition with either the SPD or the Greens.

 

[crimsonaudio]

 

[Tidewater]

Here is a video explaining the German election system

Like many things in Germany, it is over-engineered.
It is possible that your candidate in your particular district (kreis) could win the most votes, but still not get a seat in the legislature. Likewise, in you district, your guy could come in second or third, but does get a seat. This is a result of Proportional Representation.

 

[75thru79]

Here is a video explaining the German election system

Like many things in Germany, it is over-engineered.
It is possible that your candidate in your particular district (kreis) could win the most votes, but still not get a seat in the legislature. Likewise, in you district, your guy could come in second or third, but does get a seat. This is a result of Proportional Representation.

And this is the kind of crap the leftists have been trying to pull on us for quite a few years now. Telling us that every single job in the US should have demographic representation that EXACTLY matches the population. Any deviations from that must be due to racism or sexism or whatever ism that is currently in vogue. It sounds like Europe has gone all in on this too.

 

[Tidewater]

And this is the kind of crap the leftists have been trying to pull on us for quite a few years now. Telling us that every single job in the US should have demographic representation that EXACTLY matches the population. Any deviations from that must be due to racism or sexism or whatever ism that is currently in vogue. It sounds like Europe has gone all in on this too.

The German system is interesting. You could vote for an SPD candidate in your local election but for the Greens nationwide. Something like that might be helpful for Democrats in Alabama or Republicans in California.

I think the Germans has a penchant for over-engineering, but this system seems to work for them so more power to them. I had never seen the system explained that clearly before.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

The German system is interesting. You could vote for an SPD candidate in your local election but for the Greens nationwide. Something like that might be helpful for Democrats in Alabama or Republicans in California.

I think the Germans has a penchant for over-engineering, but this system seems to work for them so more power to them. I had never seen the system explained that clearly before.

Maybe I do not understand but, you can already do that in this country as long as you stay away from straight party voting.

 

[Tidewater]

Maybe I do not understand but, you can already do that in this country as long as you stay away from straight party voting.

Curious. Where and how does that work? Are you talking about ranked choice voting?

The video shows that German voters get two votes. One for the representative in the Bundestag from their local kreis. The other vote is for their national party preference.
If the number of representatives by party matches the national party preferences, then that is it. However, if the second vote differs from the local kreis winners (say, Greens win 10% of the national party preference vote but win no individual kreis vote), then the Greens must get ~10% of the seats in the Bundestag, so some local kreis winners are going to get bumped to make room for the Green candidate.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

Well, like I said, I don't understand. I haven't watched the video and was just replying to the specific part I highlighted that said you could vote for one party locally and another nationally. I do that all the time by voting for some republicans at our local level and voting for the other side at the national level.

 

[Tidewater]

Well, like I said, I don't understand. I haven't watched the video and was just replying to the specific part I highlighted that said you could vote for one party locally and another nationally. I do that all the time by voting for some republicans at our local level and voting for the other side at the national level.

Okay, I see.
The difference is that in Germany you vote twice: once for a local candidate and the other vote for a party at the national level.

I was always curious how Germany applied the Proportional Representation system.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

German Editor Sentenced and Fined for Satirical Picture of Interior Minister

We previously discussed the case of Deutschland-Kurier editor David Bendels who published a satirical meme of Interior Minister Nancy Faeser holding an altered sign that read “I hate freedom of sp…

jonathanturley.org

Conservative journalist David Bendels, editor-in-chief of the AfD-aligned DeutschlandKurier, lampooned Faeser by showing a meme of her holding a sign reading, “I hate free speech.” Deutschland-Kurier is aligned with the opposition conservative AfD party.

As if to prove her point, Faeser allegedly unleashed her office on Bendels and threatened him with a criminal prosecution for lampooning her views. The court has already imposed a fine, but according to some reports, jail time is possible.

Americans should not dismiss the Bendels case as some foreign matter with little relevance to their lives. The EU has moved aggressively to extend its anti-free speech and censorship policies globally, including a grotesque $1 billion fine against X for restoring free speech protections on that site. Germany is the epicenter of the anti-free speech movement, and figures like Faeser are among its champions.

According to polling, only 18 percent of Germans feel free to express their opinions in public. Fifty-nine percent of Germans do not even feel free expressing themselves in private among friends. Only 17 percent feel free to express themselves on the internet.

We haven't gotten to this point, thank God. However, there are powerful lobbies in the U.S. who would love nothing more than to see this happen.

 

[Tidewater]

German Editor Sentenced and Fined for Satirical Picture of Interior Minister

We previously discussed the case of Deutschland-Kurier editor David Bendels who published a satirical meme of Interior Minister Nancy Faeser holding an altered sign that read “I hate freedom of sp…

jonathanturley.org

We haven't gotten to this point, thank God. However, there are powerful lobbies in the U.S. who would love nothing more than to see this happen.

I am not so sure the US are far from that mark.
During Covid, if you publicly doubted that the vaccine would stop you from being able to spread Covid, federal officials were pressuring Twitter and Facebook to to suppress your speech. And Twitter/Facebook complied. And it has since turned out that what you were saying was truthful and speech suppressors were wrong.
If you said you believed the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan, the same thing happened.
And if you said that Hunter Biden's laptop was real.
I guess we should be thankful that the enemies of free speech have revealed themselves and how they go about suppressing free speech. I wish Congress would attach criminal charges to government officials who conspire to suppress the speech of Americans.

 

[crimsonaudio]

BREAKING: The AfD has been designated an extremist entity by German intelligence AfD won 21% of the votes in the recent election, becoming the 2nd-largest party in the Germany Parliament According to new polls, they’ve increased to 25%-26% & are now the largest party in Germany

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918261603973157242

 

[CrimsonJazz]

BREAKING: The AfD has been designated an extremist entity by German intelligence AfD won 21% of the votes in the recent election, becoming the 2nd-largest party in the Germany Parliament According to new polls, they’ve increased to 25%-26% & are now the largest party in Germany

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918261603973157242

I think we all saw this coming. People who call others fascist are almost always engaging in projection.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I think we all saw this coming. People who call others fascist are almost always engaging in projection.

I'm not very familiar with the AFD but it's interesting how some folks try to use legislation to win rather than the merits of their arguments.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

A lot to unpack here.

Regarding the AfD -- it seems kind of oxymoronic to label a quarter of the country as "extremist." IOW, if that many people believe that way, is it really "extreme"? Or is it reflective of the country, and it means that the country is extremist?

Given the history, I understand why Germany has some limits on free speech that we don't here in the US. Still seems like using the law to quell dissent.

Regarding why young German men are becoming more and more right wing, others have already nailed it. They feel threatened, both personally and culturally, by essentially open borders and resultant influx of Arabic Muslims -- a large portion of which are openly hostile to assimilation into their host country's culture.

Personal observation: There is some friction in the Teutonic countries with immigration, particularly from Arab countries. Last year, Mrs. Basket Case and I booked a tour through the World War II Museum that followed Easy Company (Band of Brothers) from training in England all the way through Normandy, Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge to Hitler's Eagle's Nest.

The Eagle's Nest is in southern Germany, just a few miles from the border with Austria. Our hotel for that part of the trip was in Zell am See in Austria. The permanent Muslim population of Zell am See and the volume of Arabic Muslim tourists was huge -- easily a third of the people we saw on the street. Several stores had signage solely in Arabic.

Our tour guide cautioned us not to discuss it with non-Arabic locals...apparently, it's a sensitive and sore subject.

 

[Tidewater]

Regarding the AfD -- it seems kind of oxymoronic to label a quarter of the country as "extremist." IOW, if that many people believe that way, is it really "extreme"? Or is it reflective of the country, and it means that the country is extremist?

Well, AfD is not outlawed, just designated as an extremist organization by the domestic intel service.
To be honest, in the past, there have been unsavory characters in AfD, but the party has evolved and now is more a right-libertarian party.

Given the history, I understand why Germany has some limits on free speech that we don't here in the US. Still seems like using the law to quell dissent.

The German police quickly demonstrated why the government cannot be empowered to police speech. A German citizen mocked the Green Party's Minister of the Economy as a "Schachkopf" (weak head) and he got arrested. It used to be that denying the Holocaust was a crime and otherwise, German speech was pretty free. Then it was no display of swastikas, even in historical settings like on a model airplane. Now, merely accusing a politician of being stupid (which certainly applied to a Green Minister of the Economy) will get you arrested.
Control over the speech of others, like the Ring of Power, it is simply irresistible to political figures. They cannot be trusted with it.

The Eagle's Nest is in southern Germany, just a few miles from the border with Austria. Our hotel for that part of the trip was in Zell am See in Austria. The permanent Muslim population of Zell am See and the volume of Arabic Muslim tourists was huge -- easily a third of the people we saw on the street. Several stores had signage solely in Arabic.

Our tour guide cautioned us not to discuss it with non-Arabic locals...apparently, it's a sensitive and sore subject.

I cannot imagine why it would be a sore subject.

 

[Tidewater]

BREAKING: The AfD has been designated an extremist entity by German intelligence AfD won 21% of the votes in the recent election, becoming the 2nd-largest party in the Germany Parliament According to new polls, they’ve increased to 25%-26% & are now the largest party in Germany

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918261603973157242

I bet you dollars to donuts that the UK Reform Party will be declared illegal or otherwise banned.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

I bet you dollars to donuts that the UK Reform Party will be declared illegal or otherwise banned.

I hadn't paid much attention to developments in the UK. But it does seem that the Reform party is getting material support -- and growing. According to this article, it's 30% across the country as a whole and over 60% in some areas.

Anti-immigrant Reform UK makes broad gains in English local elections | Local elections 2025 | The Guardian

The British system is no longer concentrated in Conservative (i.e.Tory) vs. Labour -- it now has several parties that garner meaningful support. So according to the article, Reform's 30% total made them the one first across the finish line, even though they didn't get an outright majority.

Interestingly, that 30% is half again as much as the second-place Labour party's 20%. IOW, it wasn't close.

It seems that the Reform party's primary platform is to control immigration, especially illegal immigration (sounds familiar). Secondarily, they pushed for Brexit, pulled off a surprise win a few years ago and want to keep it that way. There are other positions on other topics, but those are the two main ones.

You know far more than I do about this stuff, Tidewater. So I'm genuinely curious -- can the British Parliament ban a political party? If so, on what grounds?

Then, legal theory aside: As a practical matter, how do you ban a party that has the support of just shy of a third of the population?

Might need to buy popcorn.

 

[Its On A Slab]

I think we all saw this coming. People who call others fascist are almost always engaging in projection.

Oh, I don't know. Calling a spade should never go out of style. Or is it like wearing white sheets after Labor Day.

1. Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible” leader who never admits mistakes.
2. Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies.
3. Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood.
4. White Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat. Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious.
5. Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation.
6. Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority group leaders.
7. Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”.
8. Rampant sexism.
9. Control of mass media and undermining “truth”.
10. Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack.
11. Religion and government are intertwined. 1
12. Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed.
13. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative.
14. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence.
15. Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state.
16. Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict.

 

[Tidewater]

I hadn't paid much attention to developments in the UK. But it does seem that the Reform party is getting material support -- and growing. According to this article, it's 30% across the country as a whole and over 60% in some areas.

Anti-immigrant Reform UK makes broad gains in English local elections | Local elections 2025 | The Guardian

The British system is no longer concentrated in Conservative (i.e.Tory) vs. Labour -- it now has several parties that garner meaningful support. So according to the article, Reform's 30% total made them the one first across the finish line, even though they didn't get an outright majority.

Interestingly, that 30% is half again as much as the second-place Labour party's 20%. IOW, it wasn't close.

It seems that the Reform party's primary platform is to control immigration, especially illegal immigration (sounds familiar). Secondarily, they pushed for Brexit, pulled off a surprise win a few years ago and want to keep it that way. There are other positions on other topics, but those are the two main ones.

You know far more than I do about this stuff, Tidewater. So I'm genuinely curious -- can the British Parliament ban a political party? If so, on what grounds?

Then, legal theory aside: As a practical matter, how do you ban a party that has the support of just shy of a third of the population?

Might need to buy popcorn.

Without a written Constitution, Parliament can do pretty much whatever it wants.
Sovereignty in the British system lies with the "king-in-Paliament." The King has not vetoed a bill since the early 1700s, so the sovereign is pretty much whatever Parliament says it is.

There are a number of ways to go about this:
Legally prosecute the leader of the party (sending a not so subtle message to the second in command, "Okay, Mr. 2IC, if you do not tow the party line, you're next." (e.g. France)
Ban the party. (Germany, maybe?)
If your party is polling poorly before an election, just announce you will not hold elections (Romania, UK)

I saw British polling that indicated Reform would win 500 seats if elections were held today. Now, elections will not be held today, but I think Labour, Tories, and LibDems are worried.

Of course, the conventional parties could resolve this easily: tell the European Court of Human Rights to stick it in their ears. The ECHR is the main culprit. "Human rights" sounds innocuous enough. Who could be opposed to human rights? Until you find out that "human rights" means uncontrolled immigration and housing at the expense of the taxpayers in the countries to which they immigrate. In country after country, folks from Africa and the Middle East flock in droves, burn their passports at the border, and claim "asylum." Asylum in reality means, "my home country sucks and I could never get a job there that will pay one-tenth what a job here does, plus, the electricity works here, the roads are paved, the cops are mostly honest, etc. so I'll stay here."
Any party that gets a handle on the uncontrolled immigration problem will be popular, but the conventional parties refuse to tackle the problem. Reform, AfD, Rassemblement national, have all announced they will try and that is the source of their popularity. The conventional parties have a choice: get immigration under control or just ban the immigration-skeptic party. They have chosen the latter.