Will linebacker be our achilles heel this year? (in the wake of recent events)

[rgw]

High school athletes aren't always ready to play, but I think more and more often the top tier players can contribute from day one. They're taught to condition themselves from their early days in athletics, and they aren't the 160 pound projects that Bryant grew into studs in his early days.

 

[BamaMan12]

I agree just because we lost to Jimmy Johns which I think Nick Saban did the right call which JJ choose Drugs over Alabama. Now it does not mean our LB will be weak I beg to differ look at the Recruit Defense we got. True Indeed there all Freshmen but look how well Rolando McClain played? He even played with a hurt hand that's Heart to me. I think Nick Saban will fine someone who will step in & play. It could be Jerrell Harris,Courtney Upshaw or Don'ta Hightower. You never know hell but all 3 in there. ROLL TIDE!

I know a lot of people still think freshmen should come in a sit on the bench, but this is a different generation. Rolando McClain and Kareem Jackson played brilliantly last season off a good recruiting class. This is a much better recruiting class and I expect even more true freshmen to be able to play early. I don't see any reason why Jerrell Harris can't come in and contribute early. I could see as many as 4-5 true freshmen starting on our defense this season.

 

[BamaMan12]

That's what I think to Fanney-Hightower-McClain-Harris. I think Jerrel Harris will be the replacement. Rumors has it that he is playing very well...

Johns looked lost in the Spring game and I'd heard the same problems were evident in the Summer skels. He didn't know where he was or where he was going. He had potential and his extra time in the system might have eased the transition to Hightower or Jordan a little...but now we'll probably just throw those two in at ILB head first.

If I had to guess our starting LB corp for Clemson, it would be:

Fanney-Hightower-McClain-Harris.

Our second unit will include:

Upshaw-Higenbotham-Jordan-Williams.

Jordan's been practicing at LB, I doubt he'll start off at RB considering the state of our interior LB positions. True freshmen starting at ILB and OLB in a complicated defense isn't a recipe for success...but expecting the guy who is too stupid to know the consequences of dealing cocaine to figure out this defense seems like an even worse recipe to me.

Talk about baptism by fire for the LB corp from our 08 class! They've been forced to learning on the job with Knight and Johns' respective situations. Getting Knight back would be huge and give us great depth at OLB...but that's unlikely. The WLB's ability to defend the TE is really important in this defense...Harris' freelancing penchant in high school might burn us early.

 

[MVKTR2]

Hopefully Williams, Watkins, Higg., and Huber do well enough to start the season as starters in the OLB and ILB positions up in the air. Maybe Reamer will blossom, who knows. But I don't want to start the year with 2 true freshman playing coverages against Clemson and trying not to take bad angles against Spiller and Co. Yes they may be better athletes and I'd be possibly a bit disappointed if by mid season the freshmen hadn't pressed for playing time (example Kareem Jackson, Deshea Townsend, many others, a longer list than first game starting freshmen).

I'm sure physically some of these freshmen can handle it, but it's a serious adjustment for these young players to take. An adjustment made easier with time rather than baptism by fire! When this program gets back to being able to compete for Championships in the near future it will be only VERY special freshmen that are able to come in and start in the first few games of their freshman year. That's a good thing!!!!!:biggrin::BigA::biggrin:

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[bamaslammer]

I have some thoughts on the subject, Its unlikely JJ was ever going to be effective without a redshirt year, so the coaches would have been spending a lot of time and effort on someone who was probably not going to produce, now that time can be spent on younger players.

my other thought is that this years Defensive Line in my opinion is "as a whole" going to be much better. I think we have some guys at DL who are going to draw double teams and that means the linebackers are going to be less contested, if the linebackers are less contested that leaves their knowledge of where to run and their ability to get there quickly and with a bad attitude.

In years past (prior to probation) if we had a good line we could get away with young inexperienced linebackers.

My guess is you'll see Saban alter his defense somewhat, possibly making more use of safeties near the line, early on in the season especially. The days of the deer in the headlights look from our coach are gone.

 

[BigEasyTider]

High school athletes aren't always ready to play, but I think more and more often the top tier players can contribute from day one. They're taught to condition themselves from their early days in athletics, and they aren't the 160 pound projects that Bryant grew into studs in his early days.

I don't think that there is any doubt that you see more and more true freshman playing at a productive level these days than you did in years gone past.

First and foremost, the change in report dates has really helped. Not very long ago, incoming freshman didn't usually show up until a couple of days before the start of Fall practice, but that has all changed. Now, players report around June 1st and thus get two months in the S&C program, plus two months going through the skeleton drills and film review / playbook help before ever hitting the practice field. And all of that, of course, makes it easier for them to excel / impress the coaches in Fall practice, and it also makes it easier for them to get the most out of the practice sessions because they are not lost. That has made things much easier for true freshman to step in and contribute immediately.

Beyond that, I think players also have changed their attitudes and behavior, and that has helped them get ready. In the past, a redshirt year was often a given for the majority of players, and they prepared as such, both mentally and physically. These days, however, a redshirt is almost a four letter word to many of these true freshman recruits, and they prepare both mentally and physically from NSD to be able to step in and contribute immediately in the season opener.

It's a variety of things, but I don't think there is any doubt that it is easier for true freshmen to contribute these days than in years gone by. Fortunately, that's good news for us.

 

[Big tide fan forever]

With Jimmy Johns off the team, Zeke Knight questionable, Prince Hall in the dog house...will LB be our downfall on defense?

YES

 

[BigEasyTider]

YES

I'm sorry, but I don't share the negativity.

Last year we went into the season with a starting linebacker corps that consisted of:

• A converted defensive end / wide receiver who needed corrective heart surgery just to be cleared to play

• A true freshman

• A walk-on transfer from Middle Tennessee State University

• A converted back-up defensive end who was a late signee in the 2002 class that would have otherwise been a walk-on had some other scholarships not opened up

We had that, and yet Coach Saban and Coach Steele put it all together and made it work. The defense wasn't great last year, but it was pretty solid despite all of our problems at linebacker.

The group that those two will get in 2008 are largely in the same boat, though honestly these new guys almost certainly have more raw talent. And just like last year, I'd bet good money that Coach Saban and Coach Steele will find a way to make it work.

 

[drjamesm]

I'm sorry, but I don't share the negativity.

Last year we went into the season with a starting linebacker corps that consisted of:

• A converted defensive end / wide receiver who needed corrective heart surgery just to be cleared to play

• A true freshman

• A walk-on transfer from Middle Tennessee State University

• A converted back-up defensive end who was a late signee in the 2002 class that would have otherwise been a walk-on had some other scholarships not opened up

We had that, and yet Coach Saban and Coach Steele put it all together and made it work. The defense wasn't great last year, but it was pretty solid despite all of our problems at linebacker.

The group that those two will get in 2008 are largely in the same boat, though honestly these new guys almost certainly have more raw talent. And just like last year, I'd bet good money that Coach Saban and Coach Steele will find a way to make it work.

Yes we did,but we also won only 6 games,so I would venture a guess this is not a good sign.I believe most break downs of our depht from most sourses say this will be a rebuilding year with the next year to be better.

 

[GreatDanish]

Yes we did,but we also won only 6 games,so I would venture a guess this is not a good sign.I believe most break downs of our depht from most sourses say this will be a rebuilding year with the next year to be better.

It's a mixed feeling. We'll clearly have more talent at LB this year than last year. We have more LB experience, but less college experience (while Knight and Saunders had college experience, they did not have LB experience).
So, while we may show more speed, toughness, athleticism, and natural instincts, we will also probably show more immaturity, which will probably mean giving up some potentially big plays, particularly in key times.
I think what BET was saying was that many thought our LB corps going into last year was atrocious, but it turned out okay (not necessarily the record, but the LB play). With more talent this year, by the end of the year, our LB crew could be very good...
My take... Starting vs. Clemson:
Chavis Williams, Rolando McClain, Cory Reamer, Brandon Fanney

Starting vs. Auburn:
Jerrell Harris, Rolando McClain, Prince Hall, Courtney Upshaw.
I'm soft on both of those predictions, but just my opinion right now.

 

[bamar]

yes, we will have some learning at linebacker this year, but, i think the tide is better equipped this year than any year since the probation years. mcclain is still learning. as for freshmen coming in and playing, a lot different now than a few years back. these young men are coming in bigger, stronger, and faster than in the past. many high schools have a good weight and strength program at their school now. i like previous posters lineup of mcclain, hall, upshaw, harris or hightower. the defense this year would be better suited for kines defense i believe. i expect a much stronger def line this year. i would like to see some 5 man def line play with big cody in the middle. maybe more 5 man def back rotations on 2d and 3d down plays. remember, other teams are having the same problems. tenn lost their best linebacker, and others on the def line, yet they are once again rated in the top 10, with a unknown qb, receivers, def line, linebackers. strange.

 

[RAM]

bamar, you might be onto something. I see a three man front with TC in the middle with more of a 3-3-5 or even a 4-2-4 type look. We have almost been to concerned with finding the fourth LB, because the typical CNS defense will display a four LB set of a JACK, two ILB and one OLB, does not mean we have to run this. A coach will run the best D that he has the players for. Look at U of M this year and look again in four or five years after they change with players on O to fit the scheme. It may take another year to get the overall players up to par for CNS and staff to run what they wish. I just think against Clemson we can see several different looks depending on if they come out in a run up the middle approach or a spread us out with the outside the tackle running plays and dump passes to the running backs. The best against the run might be one set and against the pass a different look altogether.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yes we did,but we also won only 6 games,so I would venture a guess this is not a good sign.I believe most break downs of our depht from most sourses say this will be a rebuilding year with the next year to be better.

That had more to do with the colapse of the offense than anything the defense didn't accomplish. We lost the Miss. St game BECAUSE we couldn't score on offense. For most of that game our defense was all over the place. We lost the LSU game because the OFFENSE couldn't hold on to the ball. We lost to ULM because the OFFENSE could only muster 14 pts against them.

I think our defense will be fine considering our DL will see a big upgrade in size and talent this season. We've got three DL (McCollough, Cody, Chapman) all over 300 lbs. I know Cody will demand a double team in a lot of situations and the rotation of Chapman, McCollough & Cody will wear on an offense. Our secondary will be above par as well.

I'm more worried about the offense than anything.

 

[BAMAHD]

With Jimmy Johns off the team, Zeke Knight questionable, Prince Hall in the dog house...will LB be our downfall on defense?

I don't think so. Some may disagree with me but the past two seasons i have seen linebackers blitz almost every game and totally miss the quarterback or running back leading to big plays for the other team, and even in pass coverage we see balls over the linebackers finger tips or they are to slow to keep up.
Every one of these guys are giving 100% but they just don't have the athletic skills to make the plays when we needed them the most.

I expect Jerrell Harris to start within the first two three games and others to play key roles this year on defense. We now have some playmakers at the position and not just moving players to fill spots like we have in the past.

 

[BigEasyTider]

Yes we did,but we also won only 6 games,so I would venture a guess this is not a good sign.I believe most break downs of our depht from most sourses say this will be a rebuilding year with the next year to be better.

Again, though, as someone pointed out earlier, we went 6-6 in the regular season with that unit, not because of that unit. Big difference between those two.

Say what you will, but the defense played plenty well enough to win the final three games. In the final three losses -- MSU, ULM, and Auburn - the defense surrendered only 48 points, that's only 16 points per game. And honestly, it was even less than that, because the offense effectively gave up two touchdowns against MSU and ULM on interceptions that were returned very deep into our own territory. If you factor out those two scores, our defense allowed only 11 points per game over the final three games.

Again, we lost with that unit, not because of that unit. The offense was the reason we collapsed over the last three games, not the defense. Had we even been able to muster a semi-competent offensive showing in those final three weeks, we would have been 9-3 and we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

 

[Alasippi]

With Jimmy Johns off the team, Zeke Knight questionable, Prince Hall in the dog house...will LB be our downfall on defense?

The freshmen will fill the spots well....but it will take til mid-season before they understand the defensive system.. So the offense needs to score some points early.
McLain is a bonafide winner. I think any of the freshmen have much more talent than the other returnees, or ex-returnees.
The player I feel for deeply is Zeke. I hope his health allows him to compete because he's a player.

alasippi

 

[rgw]

I think we'll play a lot of 5-2-4 and 4-6 on first down, just like last year. 2-4-5 on 3rd down and long (the two OLBs playing with their hands down for a traditional nickel look). We probably won't see much of the 3-4 under/over unless our LBs can handle themselves...otherwise we'll bring a safety into the box and try to give teams too many men to block in run situations.

 

[M2J]

I think our LB corp will be our weakest group on D, but I don't believe it will cripple us. I still expect a much improved defense. We have improved depth overall, and that was our defense's issue last season, and it still managed to be a strong overall defense in spite of the depth and in spite of the offenses inability to keep the depthless defense off the field.


I have faith that Reamer and Williams will be fine in their roles for our defense and they are very talented players. From reports I've heard Harris has been a beast and is as good as advertised (great in the pass coverage). I haven't heard much of anything about other LBs from the 08 class, but I'd think that guys who have been playing LB consistently for years, and are about as physically gifted as JJ and probably better instincts, and considering JJ was only changing over this year I think they can come in and fill his spot about as well as he did if not better. I also expect Prince to make a return (though he probably won't be back until about 3 games in. But he's obviously a strong player and with him combined with Mcclain and Harris, we'll be pretty formidable with our starting LB corp.

But early on I expect us to do a lot of what we did last year, play more dbs and nickel packages, and if it worked last season I'd expect it to work even better this season with more talent and more depth in the secondary and a better DL group.

I still have more worries about or offense than defense. Kevin Steele is an awesome coach and he'll be on top of getting our very talented guys prepared, and Saban is the best and will be on top of it all too.

 

[TommyMac]

I'm pretty optimistic about the LB situation myself. It may be a little rocky at first, as should be expected, but I have faith that Coach Saban and Coach Steele will be able to mask our shortcomings as much as possible.

Another reason for my optimism is that that the youngsters that we're gonna be depending on are Coach Saban recruits, not Mike Shula recruits and that's gonna make a world of difference. They're gonna come in with superior athletic skills and maybe most importantly of all, they're gonna be better prepared mentally. Late in the season we should be in great shape at LB

I agree with most that the loss of JJ is no big loss anyway. I really hate it for Zeke though, not only was he becoming a real force back there, but he probably had a good future in the NFL curtailed. Zeke and JJ are two stark contrasts, both came in with great athletic skills and great promise, both also had wasted years by being put in wrong positions. Both also had tragic endings, JJ because of stupidity, Zeke by something he had no control over. Doesn't seem fair, does it?

 

[LCN]

I'm sorry, but I don't share the negativity.

Last year we went into the season with a starting linebacker corps that consisted of:

• A converted defensive end / wide receiver who needed corrective heart surgery just to be cleared to play

• A true freshman

• A walk-on transfer from Middle Tennessee State University

• A converted back-up defensive end who was a late signee in the 2002 class that would have otherwise been a walk-on had some other scholarships not opened up

We had that, and yet Coach Saban and Coach Steele put it all together and made it work. The defense wasn't great last year, but it was pretty solid despite all of our problems at linebacker.

The group that those two will get in 2008 are largely in the same boat, though honestly these new guys almost certainly have more raw talent. And just like last year, I'd bet good money that Coach Saban and Coach Steele will find a way to make it work.

The coaches did quite well in so far as covering up our weaknesses but , biggest problem I saw last season was that 2 of the 4 who were out there could NOT handle their assignments in pass coverage - slow as Christmas





Really only a guess but , after some more forced shuffling prior to entering Fall camp , I think we'll probably open practice something like this ....

SLB - Reamer/Anders

MLB - McClain/Hall/Higgenbotham

WLB - Huber/Hester

Jack - Fanney/Williams/Watkins/Kirschman - I think Williams is a probable solution but , he's still a bit light . Same issue with Watkins

Harris - Could take the SLB gig with - Jordan - having a rather distant shot .
Hightower - Could backup the MLB slot or , compete well @ WLB . A look @ Jack is also possible .
Upshaw - Might have a good shot @ WLB . I wouldn't expect him to end up @ Jack this year .... if ever .
Harbin - RS while learning the Jack position .


Anyhow , I'm sure we'll all have a lot of fun speculating about the outcome of our 2-deep and watching it shuffle up over the 1st half or so of the season .