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Yet another arm goes under the knife...

JoJoforHeisman

JoJoforHeisman

All-American
Dec 7, 2000
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Continuing what has become a disturbing trend for this program, yet another pitcher has suffered a torn UCL and will require Tommy John surgery. While picking up the W in relief against Jacksonville State, Jake Hubbard, who had been rounding into form as one of the more reliable arms in the bullpen, was lost for the rest of the season, and likely all of the next. Hubbard joins a list that includes the following: Tucker Hawley, Taylor Wolfe, Jay Shaw, and Cary Baxter. That's a very high number of ligament replacements for one team.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to pinpoint one specific cause for this rash of injuries. Is there something fundamentally flawed with the staff's throwing program, or could it just be a bad luck coincidence? Unlike his predecessor, Gaspard does make an effort to monitor the pitchers' in-game workloads, so "pitcher abuse" wouldn't really make a lot of sense as an explanation. If it's just a fluke thing that can't be helped, then there's really nothing that can be done. However, our rivals have taken notice of this development and have no problem using it against us in recruiting. By no means am I "blaming" the current coaching staff, but during the two years in which Kyle Bunn served as pitching coach, not a single pitcher suffered a season-ending injury. Perhaps they should have maintained a throwing/conditioning program similar to what he installed.
 
Well, that's a tough break all the way round. I hope that Jake has a full and speedy recovery.

rtr
 
The rise in year round travel ball and thus the overuse of ones arm is a major cause along with mechanics. I bet if you checked on most of these guys pre Bama days you would find many played year round. Plus we have collegiate summer leagues in the off season also. Just my opinion. Hope Jake makes a full recovery.
 
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i hate that for hubbard, he seems like a hard working kid. hope he rehabs right and comes back better than ever. i agree some with holy cow about the travel ball. also alot of these kids pitch in high school to often and without good or any coaching. i don't know if it has to do with what our coaches are doing or it would probably be more than 1 out of 20 pitchers a year with an injury. when a pitchers are is hurting he needs to tell the coach and trainer immediately. fo;;owing jj's line it has to be our hitting coach's fault that wass broke his leg batting and then boke his hand swinging a bat. i don't want to start something here but to insinuate that its the coaches fault is akin to asking someone if they stell beat their wife. i just ain't buy what jj is selling.
 
bench said:
fo;;owing jj's line it has to be our hitting coach's fault that wass broke his leg batting and then boke his hand swinging a bat. i don't want to start something here but to insinuate that its the coaches fault is akin to asking someone if they stell beat their wife. i just ain't buy what jj is selling.
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Good grief, bench - I did not insinuate that it was any coach's fault. Read the first sentence of the second paragraph - I don't know what the explanation is. You obviously missed the point. The reference to Bunn was simply a statement of fact, and a possible solution for prevention of future injuries. I have absolutely no problem with Dax Norris, and contrary to what you may think, not every post on here is some attack toward the coaching staff. Calm down.
 
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I heard Gaspard after the game last night and he did not seem to think it would be too bad as Hubbard did not hear anything pop. Gaspard said that he wanted to wait till he was examined and I see the news was not good. I do not know the issue with all these UCL injuries but to just throw ideas out there, I wonder how much these guys throw on a day to day basis? How much long toss do they do? Etc... The number is alarming and makes you wonder if we have a S&C program that could cause problems. Or lack of one?
 
ole jj it seems you talking a little obamanomics. your post spreads it around pretty good. i liked ol bunn myself, when he settled on only 4 or 5 pitchers we done good of course the rest of the staff got plenty of rest and no injuries. just face it arm injuries for pitchers are not unusual. why not just hope for a good recovery and not SPECULATE ON A CAUSE FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS. i guess i do get tired of hearing blame on the coaches for everything. i am a big boy so get your stats ready and post away, i'll just support the tide, coaches, players and all, blame me for being blind -even though i don't need glasses- but i don't and don't think you seriously think the coaching staff is doing something to hurt the players. what may seem like a "disturbing trend to you" is one arm injury to most fans. rtr
 
Once again, bench, you either didn't read the initial post or you just refuse to comprehend it. And whether you like it or not, what is "one arm injury to most fans" is being used against this program in recruiting - and that's coming from a staff member at another SEC school. That's why we speculate as to a possible cause or solution, if they even exist (you also fail to mention that of the "4 or 5" pitchers that "ol bunn" settled on, none of them suffered injuries either, but let's not allow facts to get in the way of a good straw man argument). Plus, it's a freaking free fan message board - isn't the whole purpose to discuss the team? If you don't want to discuss it, don't post.

Furthermore, no one is blaming anyone for this, so there's no reason to get all bent out of shape and remind us how much you support the coaches, etc. It's not like we're dealing with a Wayne Graham situation, where every pitcher who leaves his program seemingly does so with a completely shredded arm.
 
The work out routine of pitchers has been a topic of discussion for as long as there have been these boards. For so long I have heard John Smoltz and Tom Glavine discuss Leo Mazzone's philosophy that you work your arm more to keep it in good shape and wondered what other teams or schools do along this line?

Not having Wolfe and Howley really, really hurt us last year. Hopefully no one else will have an injury and we can get through this year. Hubbard has done fairly well here, and I really hope he can come back and pitch next year, as good or better than ever.

rtr
 
The great Bobby Bowden once said, "When the US Armed Forces go out and practice, even they don't use Live ammo" (while interviewed about why he had limited full contact practices)
When you have guys throwing during the season (including bullpen guys is worse) 25 plus innings you have to think what it takes for those guys to get there. More often than not, we never know how many times they log innings or pitches in the bullpen to be ready and end up getting "dry humped" (not getting put in the game). The very next night they're asked to get up again and get loose and inserted in the game and depending how tired or possibly sore they are will determine how good or crisp their FB or secondary stuff will be.(Of course this is their role) This is all during the season of course and the coaches do a nice job of limiting guys who have logged a lot of innings (mainly starters) to not throw summer ball.

IMO it's not the summer ball that's harmful because Summer ball normally starts right after the season and pitcher is already stretched out and has a routine. IMO this fall ball that starts in Sept running through Nov when the pitchers are ask to compete in 12 to 15 Live scrimmages during this time. Even though the Coaches try to limit innings for each pitcher during these scrimmages, it's still LIVE Competitive throwing and most bullpen guys tie or pass innings pitched in the regular season. Way to much if you ask me, (and this is done all over the league).

They seriously need to just throw/workout during the fall. med balls, long toss, swimming, PFPs flat grounds and maybe a bullpen per week to stay sharp. Maybe 2 to 3 weekend scrimmages towards the end. For the freshman pitchers coming in to the program can work the scrimmage a couple of weekends before you turn the rest of the staff loose during their 2 or 3 scrimmages.

Remember that opening day was Feb 15th but to the pitchers opening day was the first week of Jan.

I also heard that Coach Norris has done tremendous job last summer inquiring other programs in MiLB what they do, this coming from a Ole Miss grad that played with Norris.

Here's to hoping Hubbard makes a speedy return and Greer returns in a couple of weeks. Anybody know if any pitchers got grey shirted we can bring back?
 
Here's hoping one day Norris gets moved back to hitting coach, because he excelled at that, and a legit pitching coach with charisma with recruits gets hired on board.
 
We were in Houston area recently to watch our grandson play on his high school team and I was appalled at how long the coach left the pitcher in the game. He let the kid throw 125 pitches in 7 innings.




bench said:
i hate that for hubbard, he seems like a hard working kid. hope he rehabs right and comes back better than ever. i agree some with holy cow about the travel ball. also alot of these kids pitch in high school to often and without good or any coaching. i don't know if it has to do with what our coaches are doing or it would probably be more than 1 out of 20 pitchers a year with an injury. when a pitchers are is hurting he needs to tell the coach and trainer immediately. fo;;owing jj's line it has to be our hitting coach's fault that wass broke his leg batting and then boke his hand swinging a bat. i don't want to start something here but to insinuate that its the coaches fault is akin to asking someone if they stell beat their wife. i just ain't buy what jj is selling.
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rrbox said:
We were in Houston area recently to watch our grandson play on his high school team and I was appalled at how long the coach left the pitcher in the game. He let the kid throw 125 pitches in 7 innings.
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I would stroke if I let my HIGH SCHOOL kids throw 125. I've yet to let one go over 110 all year, and he hasn't pitched since in a game.
 
My understanding was that the cullman hs coach had their #1 throw 119 pitches in their opening game this year. I'm sure he's conditioned to throwing 100 pitches...but, in my thinking, there's a difference in throwing 100 pitches in the bull pen and 100 pitches in a game.
 
Yep, our older son's high school coach threw one of our pitchers 125 pitches. He was at 84 after 6 innings and had thrown 4 perfect innings. H sent him back out there in the 7th to finish and he was walking batters left and right and the coach never warmed anyone up. My son was catching him and called time twice to talk to the pitcher, and both times both he and the pitcher were looking over at the dugout to say "Well?" They both knew he was done. Finally after a couple of more walks, he finally warmed someone up and came and got him.

I don't get these guys sometimes.
 
gman4tide said:
My understanding was that the cullman hs coach had their #1 throw 119 pitches in their opening game this year. I'm sure he's conditioned to throwing 100 pitches...but, in my thinking, there's a difference in throwing 100 pitches in the bull pen and 100 pitches in a game.
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Wow. I heard Homewood done that this year too in an early game to start the year. I just couldn't live with myself throwing our kids that much, especially that early in the season. I'd rather him leave me with a good arm instead of me trying to pry a win out of his arm.

Displaced Bama Fan said:
I don't get these guys sometimes.
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Some just don't care. All they care about are the W's.
 
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