You can't take over a Nick Saban team and lose to Vanderbilt

[BigAlinKnoxville]

Saban was left with Shula's players.

DeBoer was left with mostly Saban's players.

The comparison is apples to oranges.

Right, but Saban's former players still had to learn entirely new schemes in a single season.

I get your point, but I don't think it's that radically different. New coach, new coordinators, new playbook, new personnel.

 

[bamamc1]

Saban was left with Shula's players.

DeBoer was left with mostly Saban's players.

The comparison is apples to oranges.
It’s

Couple that with the portal and it’s nowhere close.

 

[M2J]

We've done the double-Bandit thing a little already. I know we deployed it against USF with Renaud.
We're definitely going to either have to add in to the front, or we're going to have to do a better job of bringing the ILB in to fill. Maybe we've been trying to help the secondary by leaving the ILBs on level but it bit us today.

I disagree with trying to force power run when we're good enough elsewhere. The bridge too far for me here is trying to guard against a defense giving up multiple 15+ play drives in a year, regardless of opposition. If the defense is consistently that bad, then you have to give yourself as many possessions as possible on offense and then use the defense more as a serve-breaker than a shutdown unit. Force a couple of turnovers, get a big negative on a sack, something to take one possession off their side without losing one of your own.

Against Vanderbilt, they took very few deep drops. They kept everything quick and short; our biggest issue was failing to take away the valve routes to the tight end. Offensively, we produced almost as many yards as they did in a third to half the snaps. If our offense was struggling to answer, then yes I would get on board with trying to elongate drives but we have a much different problem on our hands.

Makes sense on defense for sure in terms of upfront and when I bring up the power game. Well I mainly mean they need to be better prepared for short yardage situations. Seriously with 1 yard to go on that last drive...I had 0 confidence of them to punch it in up the middle against Vanderbilt... and knew they were going to the outside. That's a problem against Vandy. Plus against Georgia, with the big lead, they couldn't bleed the clock.

Like I said, I love their offense, but think they need to establish the run more and do so when they want to and when the defense expects it... But the defense is just off right now.

 

[RammerJammer14]

Before you run out and buy the domain www.firekalendeboer.com, let me gently remind you that we went 7-5 in Nick Saban's first year in Tuscaloosa.

The situations between the two opening seasons for these coaches could not be more different. They are not at all comparable. We might as well claim that because Vanderbilt owned us in the 1900s, that losing to Vandy today isn’t a big deal.

 

[BigAlinKnoxville]

The situations between the two opening seasons for these coaches could not be more different. They are not at all comparable. We might as well claim that because Vanderbilt owned us in the 1900s, that losing to Vandy today isn’t a big deal.

Okay. Fair enough, and I can see your point. But as for tonight's game, I think the team looked past Vandy because, well, it's Vandy.

 

[B1GTide]

Well the eeyoring is back….

Not eeyoring. Lost to vandy. The concern is real.

 

[B1GTide]

The old way of thinking was that coaching tenures were judged on 4-year cycles. NIL and the general shortening of the American attention span has cut that to 3 years, sometimes even 2.

But it's definitely not 5 weeks, nor will it ever be anything that short.

After putting up the recap, I had a discussion with someone about Wommack and the lack of D adjustments. Going back to our preseason articles, I said then that in my experience, any SEC team changing O or D systems was good for an extra loss in a year above whatever their par was supposed to be. Alabama is changing both. I thought we might slide by after Georgia week but it's probably not going to work out that way. I had us 10-2 in the preseason and that's par, I think.

Specific to Wommack -- because defense is where the problem is, not offense -- what we see over the next month will tell a lot. Bama has 3 choices: change the scheme mid-season (risky even under optimum conditions, but it has been done; South Carolina changed a lot of theirs on the fly in '23), wait until year's end to replace guys who don't fit the new scheme, or manage the adjustments in a way that smooths the transition over a bit and lean on the offense. I think we're going to take the third option. And how well we do it probably informs the discussion of D staffing going into 2025. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for coaches' film review tomorrow but I won't get to do that.

Bottom line, this was always going to be a transition. We got fooled a bit last week thinking we could get around it, but we can't and that's that.

I do not believe Wommack will change his scheme at all - at all. He did not make any in game adjustments in the GA game or in the Vandy game. How many times did he send 6 on 3rd and long in this game? How about in the 2nd half of the GA game? That is the only way his defense works in the SEC - overwhelming the opponent with numbers and getting to the QB before he has time to burn you over the top. But if you don't do that then you are undersized to stop the run or unable to affect the QB on passing plays.

This defense simply will not work in the SEC. No chance.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I'm not sure what this thread title means.

Does it mean Bama cannot lose? They did.

Or does it mean that Bama will not tolerate it? They will.

I've never understood this sort of reaction. The defense wasn't ready for Vandy's offense, no question. Not sure where the problem lies, but DeBoer did take over a Nick Saban team and lose to Vanderbilt, and he won't get fired for it.

So what's the point?

 

[B1GTide]

I'm not sure what this thread title means.

Does it mean Bama cannot lose? They did.

Or does it mean that Bama will not tolerate it? They will.

I've never understood this sort of reaction. The defense wasn't ready for Vandy's offense, no question. Not sure where the problem lies, but DeBoer did take over a Nick Saban team and lose to Vanderbilt, and he won't get fired for it.

So what's the point?

That it is not acceptable? Seems legit to me. Maybe you can accept it? Doesn't mean that others should.

I am not ready to pass judgment on DeBoer here, though his post-game presser was a joke.

I am legit concerned at his choice for a DC.

 

[bamacpa]

Wommack isn't changing his scheme. Heupel is going to tear him a new one.

They scored 13 against Arkansas and their QB didn't throw the ball on the last play. Everybody, and I do mean everybody, has bad days.

 

[CB72]

Dubose, Franphoney and Shula never lost to Vandy even.

 

[SkullDuckery]

This is not a Saban team. Every year is a new team. Now did he leave us some nice talent? Yes he did. But we also had an exodus of talent to the draft and portal. We’ve brought in a lot of transfers that came from some sketch programs. I’m just disappointed in # 13. He should be the leader…been here forever.

 

[SkullDuckery]

Dubose, Franphoney and Shula never lost to Vandy even.

We should have won but this ain’t your dad’s Vandy. They are a tough bunch with a leader at qb who makes plays under pressure and was not intimidated by our uniforms.

 

[bamacpa]

We should have won but this ain’t your dad’s Vandy. They are a tough bunch with a leader at qb who makes plays under pressure and was not intimidated by our uniforms.

Yep, Vandy didn't Vandy yesterday.

 

[rjtide]

We should have won but this ain’t your dad’s Vandy. They are a tough bunch with a leader at qb who makes plays under pressure and was not intimidated by our uniforms.

We are who we are on offense....by and large a very talented team who will generally put up 5-7 td's on any given saturday. What we are on defense is, well, I dont know. I mean watching the game yesterday made it seem like there was ZERO preparation during the week for vandy's offense and then even after we saw their offense during the first half there were NO adjustments made at the half.....or atleast it sure didnt seem like we made any adjustments on defense. What am I missing by making that statement. So yes this isn't the vandy of old but c'mon man what in the hell was that on the field as displayed by Bama's defense the whole game

 

[B1GTide]

We should have won but this ain’t your dad’s Vandy. They are a tough bunch with a leader at qb who makes plays under pressure and was not intimidated by our uniforms.

After that game no one is going to be afraid to play Alabama for a while. That is going to make every game even harder to win.

 

[Power Eye]

Honestly… all this week has done is reset my opinion before last week in that your best pony in the race is still Georgia because of depth and experience and Texas and Tennessee are still wait and see teams.

I think our performance vs UGA has set some very unrealistic expectations about our team in year 1 of a transition. For a second we thought we were the 2001 Hurricanes but in reality we maybe closer to 05 LSU.

You're probably right about the unrealistic expectations that the UGA win brought with it, but losing to Vanderbilt is inexcusable. DeBoer did not take over a depleted roster. Sure, we could lose a couple of more games this year against teams that are good and I will be okay with that, but Vandy is not a good team. With that said, I'm not jumping ship on DeBoer by any means, but any goodwill that came from last week's win was erased and then some with that loss.

 

[BamaDMD]

After that game no one is going to be afraid to play Alabama for a while. That is going to make every game even harder to win.

Well, I don’t think we will face another 2nd coming of Johnny Manzell nor a misdirection option team that has a qb that makes all his throws.

 

[Bama9001]

There's a train of thought that you don't start changing your defense for an offense you're going to see only once. That might be even more valid if you're in the process of transitioning your defensive scheme.

It feels like we didn't prepare for Vandy and their offense. Perhaps their being just a one-off was part of the reason. Pretty much everyone would have expected us to just out-talent and overpower Vandy.
We displayed a tremendous amount of disrrespect for Vandy all week leading up to the game.

The offense has extreme issues with the running game that need to be fixed. They need to help the defense out by sustaining some drives and giving the defense time to rest and adjust. I'm at a loss at what we can do to fix the defense. They just win far, far too few battles for the supposed talent level we have.

Isn't our DL coach a holdover?

In truth, reference the OP, I'd say CKD has about 80% taken over the program. He's going to have to make a decision to take full ownership if he plans to be successful in T-town. No more half stepping.

 

[rjtide]

There's a train of thought that you don't start changing your defense for an offense you're going to see only once. That might be even more valid if you're in the process of transitioning your defensive scheme.

It feels like we didn't prepare for Vandy and their offense. Perhaps their being just a one-off was part of the reason. Pretty much everyone would have expected us to just out-talent and overpower Vandy.
We displayed a tremendous amount of disrrespect for Vandy all week leading up to the game.

Look it.....we had 10 (TEN) guys in the box in that shovel pass play that vandy ripped off for close to 40 yards.......and we ****ed down our legs. You dang skippy we didnt prepare for vandy's offense