ACC and PAC 12 Demise seems close (FSU officially stating intentions to fight ACC Grant of Rights… Clemson sues the ACC)

[KrAzY3]

Thing is, their schedule did not keep them out of the CFP this year. They beat LSU and Florida. If their QB was even 50%, they would be in the CFP.

I'm still of the opinion that the committee chose the easy way out here instead of just taking a logical position. It could have been Alabama, Texas, Georgia and FSU with current considerations (current makeup of the teams and how they are playing) taken into account, with FSU being lowered by at least one position the week prior.

Even with a healthy QB though, based on SoS (which FSU fans suddenly discovered yesterday) it probably should have been Washington, Michigan, Texas and Alabama or something along those lines.

Sagarin currently has FSU as an SoS of 61 (they played 3 top 30 teams, Alabama played 6) and Alabama has an SoS of 3. The committee uses SoS, they talk about SoS, they just chose to downplay it but that in my opinion was their biggest mistake. Ironically, a recent FSU post I saw pointed out how few ACC teams have ranked in the top 5, tell me more about how deserving FSU was playing that schedule FSU fans, heh.

Either way they are now running two contrary arguments.

 

[B1GTide]

I'm still of the opinion that the committee chose the easy way out here instead of just taking a logical position. It could have been Alabama, Texas, Georgia and FSU with current considerations (current makeup of the teams and how they are playing) taken into account, with FSU being lowered by at least one position the week prior.

Even with a healthy QB though, based on SoS (which FSU fans suddenly discovered yesterday) it probably should have been Washington, Michigan, Texas and Alabama or something along those lines.

Sagarin currently has FSU as an SoS of 61 (they played 3 top 30 teams, Alabama played 6) and Alabama has an SoS of 3. The committee uses SoS, they talk about SoS, they just chose to downplay it but that in my opinion was their biggest mistake. Ironically, a recent FSU post I saw pointed out how few ACC teams have ranked in the top 5, tell me more about how deserving FSU was playing that schedule FSU fans, heh.

Either way they are now running two contrary arguments.

I am just saying that this has nothing to do with them leaving the ACC. They have wanted to do that for years.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

…So you have entities headquartered in two different states suing each other. My recollection of simple Business Law is that such things usually end up in Federal court…

US contracts typically have a section specifying the jurisdiction for disputes. With the ACC then (as now) headquartered in North Carolina, that almost certainly is the jurisdiction stipulated in the ACC Grant of Rights.

 

[Crimson1967]

My dream scenario:

Miami (AAU) to the Big Ten where they fade into the background sending volleyball to Seattle.

UNC/Va decide they’d be better off in a Southern based conference and join the SEC and drag little brother along with them. (NCSt and VaTech).

FSU joins the Big XII and is stuck having to be on common ground with the Gus Bus.

 

[KrAzY3]

I am just saying that this has nothing to do with them leaving the ACC. They have wanted to do that for years.

That's part of why I see this as such a big mistake on their part. They are doing it before things from the playoff snub died down and in doing so everything is connected in people's minds. The anti-SEC bias is carrying over, blocking one of their best possible paths, they have two contrary arguments going at the same time, etc...

Wait a little while, calm down, then figure out your next move. That's the smart play, but FSU didn't get into this mess by being smart so why change now?

 

[B1GTide]

That's part of why I see this as such a big mistake on their part. They are doing it before things from the playoff snub died down and in doing so everything is connected in people's minds. The anti-SEC bias is carrying over, blocking one of their best possible paths, they have two contrary arguments going at the same time, etc...

Wait a little while, calm down, then figure out your next move. That's the smart play, but FSU didn't get into this mess by being smart so why change now?

The ACC will offer one of the easiest paths to a first round bye in future CFP pools. But they may be right about lost revenue opportunities. I can't pretend to understand how much money the ACC is costing schools like FSU, which are only elite at football. The conference was built around basketball.

 

[CB4]

This FSU - ACC thing is like a really long drawn out and super dysfunctional 30 year old episode of “The Bachelorette”

Then:

ACC: “We love you. You belong with us”

FSU: “Sorry SEC. The rose goes to the ACC. Life will just be easier with them….”

Now:

ACC “The CFP snubbed us and insulted our wonderful, beautiful and deserving bride in FSU….”

FSU - “That’s right honey….you tell them. By the way, has the lawyer served you with divorce papers yet?”

 

[landonew]

FSU is saying they don't have to abide by the contract because their agent (the ACC) is an idiot.

The original GoR was signed in 2013. The conference members renewed and extended it in 2016. So 10 years after the original and seven years after the extension, they're just now deciding that their agent was incompetent?

Keep in mind that all members of the ACC signed the extension. If the ACC was incompetent, so was the legal counsel of every single ACC member, including FSU.

So not only does FSU not have to abide by the contract because their agent's an idiot, they themselves are idiots and therefore not responsible. (Couldn't decide whether blue font was appropriate there.)

I'm no lawyer and my live-in attorney didn't practice in this area. Still, I see no grounds for FSU to weasel out. They might (maybe) get a favorable hearing in Florida. But the ACC is headquartered in North Carolina (Greensboro until 2023, when it moved to Charlotte). I don't know the status of the move, but either way it's in North Carolina.

So you have entities headquartered in two different states suing each other. My recollection of simple Business Law is that such things usually end up in Federal court -- where FSU is likely to face a much less sympathetic judicial system. I'm guessing that they not only lose the case, but end up having to pay the ACC's attorneys' fees.

This is about the dumbest thing I've seen since Walter Leroy Moody said all that bomb equipment in his front bedroom was a cold fusion experiment.

I’m a corporate lawyer in DFW. I’m not saying their position is right or wrong I’m merely trying to explain it to the group.

What I think is that they resigned the GOR in 2016 to extend to 2036 with full knowledge of the ESPN contract. To me, it’s difficult to claim that the ESPN contract is a breach of fiduciary when you understood it prior to resigning the GOR.

 

[landonew]

Oh, so you mean the easy conference that FSU has been clubbing like baby seals all this time doesn't have the earning potential of conferences full of the best teams in college football? They're "similar" conferences like FSU is "similar" to Boise State. Also, I would add that ACC deal was actually quite generous relative to other deals and their lack of ratings generators, in return for the length of the contract... The Pac-12 could only manage 20 million a year per team.

Anyway... I think they are taking the most bombastic and least diplomatic approach possible right now. The FSU faithful follow up weeks of hatred towards ESPN, the committee and the SEC with direct aspersions towards the ACC, ESPN and specific member schools. The irony is these are the parties they would likely need to come to some sort of agreement with in order to leave and not pay half a billion, so all they are doing right now is just throwing a fit and hoping for a biased court.

Having basically backed themselves in a corner here, where Fox and the Big 10 are their only potential saviors let's just review the hurdles.

A: They have to get out of the exit fee, which is over 100 million. This is different from the GOR so it's a hefty chunk of change the ACC and schools they have been bashing are not likely to excuse.

B: They have the GOR which with their estimates is worth around 400 million. This is there specifically to force schools to stay and something FSU themselves noted when they signed it.

C: A big part of their complaint about needing to leave the ACC is that they make less money than the SEC and Big 10 (something I've talked about for years, it's not a new observation). Well, Maryland and Rutgers previously, and Oregon and Washington currently had reduced shares, you know something like FSU is making now. So they have three major hurdles to get past to actually make more money then they are currently making.

Long story short, FSU is broke and stupid.

The exit fee is $527M. I am trying to explain FSU’s legal position.

Do I think it’s a great legal position? No I don’t. Have I seen worse? Yes I have. Has FSU hired one of the best lawfirms in Florida? Certainly. Is this suit being filed to secure a judgment or are they attempting to force the ACC into mediation to negotiate a lower exit fee? I suspect the latter.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Thing is, their schedule did not keep them out of the CFP this year. They beat LSU and Florida. If their QB was even 50%, they would be in the CFP.

I know, but that's what's driving this. They've wanted out for years but suddenly they have to get out NOW!

 

[Joefus]

Weren’t they close to getting the 7 members to leave with them just a little while ago? They aren’t going to break this GOR and even if they could they can’t pay the exit fee. There is no play here if they can’t get 6 members to also choose to exit. Even so the acc teams we’d want wouldn’t be eager to come to the sec I feel. We’d want unc and uva but you can’t get them without duke and va tech. Teams we don’t want. I doubt the big ten would be eager to go past 20 at the moment barring a complete collapse of the acc and even then I dunno. The whole thing is so dumb I thinks it’s just gonna go away by the summer

 

[Joefus]

The real story here is you can’t make copies of the GOR or take exact notes or spend past a certain amount of time reading and someone watches you the entire time you’re in the presence of the document. That sounds like a bad cia spy novel. Does this strike anyone else as totally bizarre and possibly illegal? Just the weirdest thing ever in college football if you ask me. If it’s that secretive I would never sign it

 

[CullmanTide]

I am just very thankful for the leadership Alabama has had the past couple of decades.

 

[KrAzY3]

Is this suit being filed to secure a judgment or are they attempting to force the ACC into mediation to negotiate a lower exit fee? I suspect the latter.

Honestly, I think FSU is being given too much credit. I've been following their finances and their public positions for years now and at no point in time have they taken any particularly well thought out positions or made any especially prescient moves.

In this case, if they wanted the ACC and ESPN to come to the negotiating table, this has to be just about the worst way to go about it. You suck I hate you, isn't exactly a way to get people to warm up to you and do you any favors.

Specifically though, an FSU exit is not in any way advantageous to the ACC, it would simply make the conference fall apart sooner, meaning every membership without a Big 10 or SEC destination (most of them) would have absolutely no reason to make a deal.

Finally, FSU can't afford to make a deal anyway. Their whole complaint is they are lagging behind the SEC and Big 10. Every penny they paid to get out of the ACC would be one more penny they have to earn back. Even assuming for instance the Big 10 invited them and say to heck with Maryland, Rutgers, Oregon, and Washington, FSU gets a full share! They are still unable to pay even 25% of they money they owe the ACC and not fall further behind for the next several years.

They are basically going for the impossible right now, a full share in the Big 10 after they pay pennies on the dollar to what they owe the ACC. Just look at what the two remaining Pac-12 schools just got, 255 million, for a less ironclad situation in which the damage had already been done.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

I know, but that's what's driving this. They've wanted out for years but suddenly they have to get out NOW!

Emotion can cause some really stupid & short-sighted decisions.

I think that’s what’s happening here.

 

[landonew]

This suit is simply the first step to FSU leaving the ACC. They’ve got really good lawyers and they’re sophisticated. This is about FSU negotiating down the exit fee, nothing more nothing less. Both parties know this.

 

[Bama Lee]

My dream scenario:

Miami (AAU) to the Big Ten where they fade into the background sending volleyball to Seattle.

UNC/Va decide they’d be better off in a Southern based conference and join the SEC and drag little brother along with them. (NCSt and VaTech).

FSU joins the Big XII and is stuck having to be on common ground with the Gus Bus.

I think that FSU ends up in Big 12 pretending that their joining gives that conference a ‘real team.’

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Florida State is the Harry Ellis (the coke user who got popped by Hans Gruber in "Die Hard") of negotiating teams.

 

[BhamToTexas]

Florida State is the Harry Ellis (the coke user who got popped by Hans Gruber in "Die Hard") of negotiating teams.

Tell them you don’t know me!!

 

[DzynKingRTR]

The PAC 2 just got a new commissioner for both its teams. Demise no more, am I right?