Alabama QBs in 2024, II
- Thread starter 4Q Basket Case
- Start date
I don't remember 2 years ago well enough to remember who the candidates to replace him would have been back then. Do we get Sark in this situation? Because if so, I'm in (no offense to DeBoer)
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he left the NFL because he had more control and a receptive audience in college football. He left college football because he had less control than the NFL, and the audience became less receptive.
No doubt in my mind we started the wrong running backs last year.
I do remember Saban saying that the QB had to, "win the team."
That's not quite the same as saying that the team chooses the QB.
Years ago, it would have meant that the QB had to have the confidence of the team. In today's world, I don't know anymore.
Perhaps it's easier to see now (hindsight always is) but I agree the cracks started showing.
I think we, as a fan base, did the right thing and most said he deserved to go out on his terms and we trusted he would keep his word and not ride the program down.
Ironically, in some ways it started to happen but we still won a lot a football but when the 2023 team became the 1st team not to win at least win one championship every 3 years it started becoming clearer.
As for last year? I know we won the SEC and were one game from the NC game, but it was painfully obvious that was not a CNS team from yesteryear.
No wonder the "retirement" talk started. That team was held together by the GOAT's influence and a decent defense. Most of the time, it won games despite itself.
Somebody will do a documentary but we already know NIL and endless portal transfer literally changed the greatest game we know in a matter of 2 or 3 years and now we know it drove CNS to the end of his career probably a few years before he wanted it to end.
I think we, as a fan base, did the right thing and most said he deserved to go out on his terms and we trusted he would keep his word and not ride the program down.
Ironically, in some ways it started to happen but we still won a lot a football but when the 2023 team became the 1st team not to win at least win one championship every 3 years it started becoming clearer.
As for last year? I know we won the SEC and were one game from the NC game, but it was painfully obvious that was not a CNS team from yesteryear.
No wonder the "retirement" talk started. That team was held together by the GOAT's influence and a decent defense. Most of the time, it won games despite itself.
Somebody will do a documentary but we already know NIL and endless portal transfer literally changed the greatest game we know in a matter of 2 or 3 years and now we know it drove CNS to the end of his career probably a few years before he wanted it to end.
Yup.
But he still has a brilliant football mind.
If I recall, didn’t he say that after UGA steamrolled the defense to open the SEC title game, he basically told the staff to scrap the game plan and they adjusted in game?
He was as masterful a coach in every aspect of the job, from recruiting to game planning to in-game adjustments to player and coach development…masterful.
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on the SECCG, it's wasn't a wholesale scrapping of the game plan, but it was a shift. We played a 30 front the first drive and it was awful. He had them shift to a 40 front for the rest of the game and it was immediately better. that was a trend most of the year though - for all the improvement that Steele made, and it was a huge improvement - he would sometimes run the 30 front and it just never really worked. It was silly really; we be putting one of our best pass rushers (Braswell or Turner) into pass coverage or off the ball, and then blitzing Lawson, who was one of our better coverage and/off ball guys. Never made sense to me.
But overall, Yes, Saban typically would win the adjustment side of the game
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In hindsight 2020 was the year to Ride into the Sunset on Top.
It was just Pure Dominance from the Beginning to the end with only a couple of minor moments where anyone even came close to giving us a challenge... and that was just briefly by Fla in the SECCG.
But even then cracks had already formed on the Defensive side and especially with accepting such poor coaching from Golding and letting it slide for way too long.
I'd say that probably 2015 and maybe 2016 were the last full seasons with quality Positional Coaching on both sides Offense and Defense and when there was an Overall standard that everyone had to live up to.
2017-2020 we won a LOT of games because for the most part we had just TONS of talent and Two of the Best QBs we've ever had in Tua and Mac.
2021 to now though we've had extremely subpar positional coaching and a general 'softness' that was permeating the team.
My stance was a bit similar to CA but also a bit different.
Even though I could see the slip.... I could see that CNS had softened and the team in kind... I still thought he deserved to go out however he wanted.
If that meant going 7-5 two years in a row or worse whatever... the man is the GOAT with no close peer. He DOMINATED CFB for at least 17 Years when there has never been more parity and he also did it when for the most part the SEC was by far the toughest Conf to even survive.
I believe CA's stance was that even though all that is true he was being Paid GOAT Salary and if he couldn't produce the same results and do it at Prime Saban standards of Quality then he needed to retire.
Thankfully I guess CNS's mindset was more similar to CA's than mine.
He knew he had slipped and that the standard had slipped and that he didn't have the fire left to try and correct it and the team if it even could be fixed.
My view is that it was too late. The current 'I need instant gratification or I'm portaling and getting that bag of cash' mindset had/has infested our program along with some other less desirable mindsets.
I really didn't mean to go on such a tangent but I guess I've sort been keeping all this bottled up to myself.
I'll miss CNS of course and he IS the GOAT but it was time to retire and even if he was still close to his Prime he's just not wired to deal with today's players which I 1000% understand.
I'm not wired to deal with them from afar...lol
But to circle back to the QB portion we are 1000% in the situation we are in because this wasn't handled right from the Top.
We imo should have started Ty the week after USF and never looked back.
CNS had to know at least somewhat that it was going to be his last year and while we probably don't win the SEC last year we would be much better set up for this one and the next one.
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Well there were rumblings that we were reworking Sark’s contract and we may had a coach in waiting situation. But Texas swoops in and takes him.
I honestly think Saban declined on the night we beat Georgia in 2017. I think his fights with Daboll the way he did made many on that staff start to seek other opportunities. I think after Daboll shocked him by leaving he settled fast on Locks and Tosh in order to keep recruiting high, and really never tried to get great position coaches or was unable to. My point is that we have mostly been winning on talent ever since. There really is no reason why we have looked so bad doing the simple things for so long. We basically look like a better Oklahoma under Lincoln Riley.
When I was searching for the alleged CNS quote that "the team chose JM" yesterday I was reading a very long thread that originated on Sept. 18, 2023, after CNS reinstated JM as the starter after the USF game.
One of the common reactions then (and I think I agree now) is that TS was never given the same opportunity as JM OR TB.
He never had a game to "start" that was game planned for him. JM did and so did TB (which is still the most head-scratching thing that happened last year).
I think @81usaf92 has mentioned TS had alienated himself with some unnamed actions that must've blown up in his face about this time. It's probably why he was #3 on the DC and wasn't given the chance the week of OM (even though JessN and Rodney Orr both said they thought he'd start the next week).
Of course, nobody knows how it would have worked out. If given the game reps I truly believe we'd be in a much more certain place with QB play with TS than JM (in terms of the kind of QB CKD probably wants under center).
But the experiment of JM's tenure is still looming large. He had the team and, for whatever reason, he got CNS on board to name him the starter after USF, and now the media is behind him. And, worse of all, "race" entered the discussion (not here, but it was pushed by some podcasters) and that should have never been the case since 4 of our last 5 starters have been black.
As I've said multiple times, I just want the QB who can run the system the best to start. I'm not for TS over JM except in the sense I fear JM will never be able to do the things a high level SEC QB should be able to do. TS, at least in the A-Day game, showed he might be ready to do some of those things.
Saban reached the point that he just didn't want to put the personal emotional capital into the new game. In addition to being a football coach, pay-for-play and the portal meant he also had to re-recruit every player every year -- sometimes multiple times in a year. On top of that, given his age and the quite legitimate questions around how much longer he'd coach, he was unable to recruit assistants of the caliber he knew he needed.
Saban is 73 and as CA says, Father Time is undefeated. He has grandchildren that are in the most fun stage of a grandparent's life. That window of time is exceedingly narrow, and when it's gone, nothing and nobody can turn the clock back. He has more money than all of them can spend in their lifetimes. When he announced his retirement, he was barely out of the room before ESPN announced he was joining them.
He hasn't said this, but I'm betting he also has some lucrative gigs as a coaching consultant.
To enjoy retirement, you need three things: Time, Health and Financial Resources. For Saban, the big question mark is health. He's fine now, but you never know when that could change and all the money in the world might or might not help.
Plus, the culture of the college game he loved had changed to an NFL-type culture...which he hates. The culture he likes is definitely not coming back anytime soon...probably not at all. Even if it did return in some form, given his age he doesn't have time to wait that process out.
I am convinced he decided early in the year that 2023 would be his last, and it turned out to be one of his best coaching jobs. Takes a team with obvious weaknesses, and wins an SEC Championship, a spot in the CFP, and was 3 minutes away from being in the NCG. Then he hung it up.
Contrast that with Bobby Bowden who hung on far longer than he could still effectively function. He eventually wrecked the proud program that he himself had built and had to be pushed out the door, kicking, screaming and whining the whole way.
Yeah, in retrospect, maybe Saban should have hung it up after beating tOSU in the 2020-21 championship game. Anybody with a crystal ball that clear needs to play the PowerBall.
Saban is 73 and as CA says, Father Time is undefeated. He has grandchildren that are in the most fun stage of a grandparent's life. That window of time is exceedingly narrow, and when it's gone, nothing and nobody can turn the clock back. He has more money than all of them can spend in their lifetimes. When he announced his retirement, he was barely out of the room before ESPN announced he was joining them.
He hasn't said this, but I'm betting he also has some lucrative gigs as a coaching consultant.
To enjoy retirement, you need three things: Time, Health and Financial Resources. For Saban, the big question mark is health. He's fine now, but you never know when that could change and all the money in the world might or might not help.
Plus, the culture of the college game he loved had changed to an NFL-type culture...which he hates. The culture he likes is definitely not coming back anytime soon...probably not at all. Even if it did return in some form, given his age he doesn't have time to wait that process out.
I am convinced he decided early in the year that 2023 would be his last, and it turned out to be one of his best coaching jobs. Takes a team with obvious weaknesses, and wins an SEC Championship, a spot in the CFP, and was 3 minutes away from being in the NCG. Then he hung it up.
Contrast that with Bobby Bowden who hung on far longer than he could still effectively function. He eventually wrecked the proud program that he himself had built and had to be pushed out the door, kicking, screaming and whining the whole way.
Yeah, in retrospect, maybe Saban should have hung it up after beating tOSU in the 2020-21 championship game. Anybody with a crystal ball that clear needs to play the PowerBall.
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I saw the trip to Italy as an event that signaled a significant departure for CNS versus his 24 hour a day 52 week a year focus on football. The trip was planned around the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix at Ferrarie's home track which was cancelled due to flooding in Italy. I expect that a Ferrari plane flew the Saban's and other partners to Italy on their private plane for a promotional event around the race and a tour of Ferrari's operations there and sight seeing around Rome.
Players quit in a game without telling anyone. Workers begin skipping important details on critical task and coaches begin to ease up on their intensity over time. We all do that in order to hopefully gain balance in our lives and live longer. Maintaining an organization at the pennacle is a monumental task and may be ultimately be impossible. Younger coaches sacrifice everything in their lives in their desire to topple the king.
CNS left with a remarkable record and knows more about all aspects of the game than practically anyone. His record may never be equaled but he determined it was time.
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And only 1 of those with CNS is sure so I'm happy for him.
I dreamed last night he passed away. I literally got up this morning and checked my phone first thing and breathed a sigh of relief to see it wasn't true!
For most of us mortals, we have to figure out a point of working long enough to have the financial resources to retire and support our retirement lifestyle. At least for him, he got that covered. He already looks more rested and healthy after only stepping away a few months now.
As I am approaching retirement age in a few years, you start to realize that even before retirement you have to accept you are not what you were 20-30 years ago. This is true not only in physically, but just as importantly in emotional and mental terms. As we age, I've found you have to find some balance in doing your job but allowing yourself to slow down to accommodate the aging challenges.
CNS did the same thing but he was just under the microscope of scrutiny from millions of people watching and listening to everything he did and said. I can't imagine the physical and emotional toil that took, especially for someone like him who gave so much.
I really hope the good Lord gives him a long period of retirement and I hope he gets to see the Crimson Tide win a title real soon so he can enjoy that as a fan like the rest of us!
That interview he did at the golf course.....didn't he say he had been in a hurry for 50 years. He probably has to learn to slow down....learn to relax.
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