I don't Recognize the Game of Basketball Anymore

[Bpilktree]

Yeah I didn't really. I mainly watched the SEC and ACC.

I kind of remember Hoyas team with Ewing but that's it really.

There was an ESPN special on the toughness of the Big East in the 80s a bunch of fights and mugging it was the original Bad Boys that Detroit copied.

 

[Padreruf]

Alabama is-playground ball?

This is a very intricate refined offense. It’s beautiful to watch. Last night we were playing orcs and trolls. Hard to look good against that stuff

CNO may have an intricate offense...but that's not what I see this year on the floor, regardless of the opponent. Too much dribbling, one on one -- need to move the ball around via passing to get open shots. Oh well....we're over-achieving as it is.

 

[imauafan]

It is a misconception that basketball isn't a physical sport because it actually is and it will take a toll on your body. I don't care for the prima donnas who don't like physical contact and IMHO they shouldn't play basketball. However, it shouldn't be a free-for-all brawl and refs need to keep things under control. As long as they are consistent then I don't mind them allowing the players to play. I can't stand when they call every touch foul because that makes the game hard to watch when you are constantly stopping the action to shoot free throws. I would say that is basketball's biggest problem is the inconsistency from one referee crew to another and then during a game from one team to another. The other big problem is the over use of replay especially late in the game when it unfairly awards one side or the other with free timeouts.

 

[CajunCrimson]

CNO may have an intricate offense...but that's not what I see this year on the floor, regardless of the opponent. Too much dribbling, one on one -- need to move the ball around via passing to get open shots. Oh well....we're over-achieving as it is.

The offense is literally a series of drives and layups or passes to open shooters. It’s the highest scoring offense in the country. With the 5th fastest tempo. About 77 possessions per game. We dribble less than 360 other teams in the country.

we literally never have an offensive sequence without at least two passes, except for fast breaks.

no one plays zone defense anymore. The days of Dean Smith and passing it across the top of the key for 24 seconds every trip are gone. Defenses all play man. They all play in your face. Passes get deflected and stolen so passes come off of drives now. Or dribble handoffs.

basketball has changed. But our offense is beautiful. It’s fluid. It’s fast. It’s productive.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

I don't see as much one on one as I've seen in recent years. The offense flows a lot better with Sears on the floor because of his ability score and draw defenders for the dish to someone open.

We seem to have one of the better FT shooting teams that I've seen in years at 77%.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The offense is literally a series of drives and layups or passes to open shooters. It’s the highest scoring offense in the country. With the 5th fastest tempo. About 77 possessions per game. We dribble less than 360 other teams in the country.

we literally never have an offensive sequence without at least two passes, except for fast breaks.

no one plays zone defense anymore. The days of Dean Smith and passing it across the top of the key for 24 seconds every trip are gone. Defenses all play man. They all play in your face. Passes get deflected and stolen so passes come off of drives now. Or dribble handoffs.

basketball has changed. But our offense is beautiful. It’s fluid. It’s fast. It’s productive.

You should explain that on their 247 thread I just referenced...

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

You should explain that on their 247 thread I just referenced...

I've had up close and personal experiences with Tarheels to know their "arrogance" when I was at FSU. Duke fans are right there with them.

 

[mdb-tpet]

I've wanted the rules change to drop a foul allowed per player. 5 fouls per player allows too much rough play for a good amount of the game before the players have to stop playing so physically. Restart calling the charging foul and call the 3 second rule in the paint, and the game would be a lot better without the mugging. There would be a quick change to less physical play if you player had 3 fouls if you foul out with 4.

 

[Countrytider2]

I think this is part of the problem. The guards who drive to the basket turn into running backs carrying the ball and the bigs down low are allowed to basically tackle at will. And then fouls aren't called consistently.

Also, offensive charging has got to be added back because without the possibility of it being called more often, these type of bull drives will continue.

LeBron James has made a career of it…

 

[Countrytider2]

I think the same refs of last nights game are at Iowa game and the same thing is happening. Iowa is the highest scoring team and West Virginia is just pushing riding and hand checking on every drive.

I know people talk about how tough and physical the bad boys were but that was partly true when you drove for lay up you would get hit hard but they were not real physical on the outside and there guards didn’t play that type of defense and slacked off. If teams played defense like they did in the 80s and 90s backing off they would get torched. You have to play up tight on guys or they will hit 3’s so when your up tight it tough to defend the drive which causes contact. Nate Oates tells you how game is all the time either shoot 3’s or drive to basket and get lay ups. That the teams strategy and numbers prove that how to play. The drives also are not just to get scores but to get fouls and get better players in foul trouble to get them out of game. The college game started changing early 90s with UNLV and Michigan where they had big physical guys that could also drive. Go on YouTube watch the 86 NCAA championship and then like 92 it changed a lot just in those 6 years. This is 1986 championship all you have to do is watch few minutes and see how far they sit back.

I don’t disagree with Oats’ system. I think it *should* be tweaked when we face some of those teams with a couple of bigs down low and we are continually banging our head against a brick wall. We’ve seen it happen. Analytics is analytics…but when the other teams knows you are either going to the basket or shooting a 3, it takes some of the advantage out…

also what are the analytics of a contested layup vs. a WIDE OPEN jump shot?

Can’t argue with the success he’s had. It’s been an amazing ride, and I hope for many years to come. But no system is perfect and I’d like to see a few tweaks here and there to the offense..

 

[CajunCrimson]

I don’t disagree with Oats’ system. I think it *should* be tweaked when we face some of those teams with a couple of bigs down low and we are continually banging our head against a brick wall. We’ve seen it happen. Analytics is analytics…but when the other teams knows you are either going to the basket or shooting a 3, it takes some of the advantage out…

also what are the analytics of a contested layup vs. a WIDE OPEN jump shot?

Can’t argue with the success he’s had. It’s been an amazing ride, and I hope for many years to come. But no system is perfect and I’d like to see a few tweaks here and there to the offense..

contested layups result in many more free throws than an open jump shot. And those generate points 75% of the time.

so the analytics show way more value for a contested layup.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

contested layups result in many more free throws than an open jump shot. And those generate points 75% of the time.

so the analytics show way more value for a contested layup.

I can't remember who did it, but of ours shot about a 20' jumper last game and looked nervously over his shoulder but Oats didn't pull him out...

 

[BamaMoon]

I can't remember who did it, but one of ours shot about a 20' jumper last game and looked nervously over his shoulder but Oats didn't pull him out...

Estrada, IIRC.

 

[bamaga]

It’s funny, the pro game is the opposite. Breathe on player and they call a foul. Between the fouls and the flops, it’s almost unwatchable.

 

[imauafan]

contested layups result in many more free throws than an open jump shot. And those generate points 75% of the time.

so the analytics show way more value for a contested layup.

I understand the strategy but sometimes you play a team that can defend those layups without fouling and there are times the refs just aren't calling fouls. Those are the times that I wish we had some flexibility in our offense. IMHO the problem with metrics is they give you the big, overall picture but not necessarily what you need for a specific opponent. However, the thing about any system is that if you have the best players you can run whatever you want to run and it will work most of the time. CNO has done a great job with recruiting and roster management so in the end it is more about the Jimmy's and Joes than the X's and O's.

 

[BamaMoon]

I understand the strategy but sometimes you play a team that can defend those layups without fouling and there are times the refs just aren't calling fouls. Those are the times that I wish we had some flexibility in our offense. IMHO the problem with metrics is they give you the big, overall picture but not necessarily what you need for a specific opponent. However, the thing about any system is that if you have the best players you can run whatever you want to run and it will work most of the time. CNO has done a great job with recruiting and roster management so in the end it is more about the Jimmy's and Joes than the X's and O's.

CNO is proving to be great with the metrics, but also he is showing great in game coaching and adjustments.

All that and not to mention he already is showing he understands the way the portal works better than anybody, as you mention.

 

[imauafan]

CNO is proving to be great with the metrics, but also he is showing great in game coaching and adjustments.

All that and not to mention he already is showing he understands the way the portal works better than anybody, as you mention.

And player development. Under previous coaches there was little to no improvement and in some cases players were digressing each year. With CNO we've seen outstanding player development.

 

[BamaNation]

carrying and traveling are no longer called.

It makes the game much more like a pickup / street game than one of disciplined execution. Also makes defense much tougher to play. Add that to all the physicality that never gets called. There was one game this year where Sears took FIVE steps to the basket on a layup and no call. FIVE!

Last night's game where the big dude for clempson got a rebound and lowered his shoulder and knocked Sears (I think) down then put the ball in the hoop - no call - and then Sears ticky tack fouled him at midcourt - foul.

Lazy officiating and dumbing down the game.

 

[UAH]

carrying and traveling are no longer called.

It makes the game much more like a pickup / street game than one of disciplined execution. Also makes defense much tougher to play. Add that to all the physicality that never gets called. There was one game this year where Sears took FIVE steps to the basket on a layup and no call. FIVE!

Last night's game where the big dude for clempson got a rebound and lowered his shoulder and knocked Sears (I think) down then put the ball in the hoop - no call - and then Sears ticky tack fouled him at midcourt - foul.

Lazy officiating and dumbing down the game.

Early on Clemson players were allowed to lower their shoulder and push the defender inside then the defender is called for any had contact on the layup. It is crazy to see all of the contact then see a minor touch on the arm be called. To a degree Bama forced them away from their inside post up advantage by hitting threes.

 

[Swanny]

I dont watch as much basketball as I used to, but I haven't seen a 3 second violation called in quite some time.