Question: Is Texas recruiting not as good as it could be?

[twofbyc]

This is not meant as any smack or anything demeaning to Texas or MB, but...
all I hear is how 1) there are 25 million people in Texas, so a lot of talent to choose from, 2) MB doesn't have to recruit, and does very little out-of state, only for the top recruits (Simms was a semi-bust, I know).
So, in almost 12 years, they are playing for the BCSC only for the 2nd time? Sure, I know he has had a great record (128-26 at UT, up until now), but with so much supposed talent, I would have thought they would have played in the title game more than they have (OK, there is an argument for one more title game for them, but it leads down the rabbit hole).
What my question is: with all of the "talent" UT has access to, is it that they aren't signing the best, or is it the coaching that is falling short? With a school that reportedly doesn't "have" to recruit to get top talent, does it have to be one or the other, or is it just bad luck? Although I think the losing streak they had to OU (which has now been reversed somewhat) can't be defined as bad luck.
Thoughts?

 

[bayoutider]

Texas has 4 top 5 classes since 2002 and has been in the top 20 every year. 2002 they had, according to Rivals, the #1 class and are presently #1 for 2010. Mack Brown's nickname is Mr. February, he wins the recruiting battles but usually falls short of winning titles with all that talent.

 

[Tidewater]

Texas is a big state loaded with talented football players, but UT has to share these recruits with a lot of state schools, as well as raiders from out of state (OU, LSU, etc.) I read a decade ago that Kansas State's best players were mostly from Texas. Heck, Alabama has a player who hails from Texas, I just can't recall who it is...
Bottom line: the Longhorns recruit well in a talent rich state. Shoot, check their national rankings the last few years.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

I see your point, but no one has recruiting as good as it could be unless they sign every five star out there and then finish with four stars for the rest of the class. Even then, Rivals or Scout would disagree. Also, MB has to recruit 'his needs' like every other HC, so there will usually be some big ones that get away.

 

[CullmanTide]

Scholarship limitations have hurt the big schools like Texas and Alabama. It doesn't matter if you have 25 million people in the state if you can only bring in 25 recruits a year. And yes Tidewater we have a couple of pretty good players from Texas. Eryk Anders and Greg McElroy are two that Texas missed on.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

As Rich has alluded, 'crootin' ain't the alpha and omega. After it ends, player development begins, and that's where Saban excels. Some of the UT guys were complaining about the lack OL development, when the guys were 4* or 5* recruits. Well, we've seen what Connelly could do with highly-ranked OLs, and we've seen what Pendry can do with some of those same guys. BTW, UT plays a technique most of the time which is very close to CBC's. Remember how those guys could run block - not...

 

[RTRinGA89]

Texas has 4 top 5 classes since 2002 and has been in the top 20 every year. 2002 they had, according to Rivals, the #1 class and are presently #1 for 2010. Mack Brown's nickname is Mr. February, he wins the recruiting battles but usually falls short of winning titles with all that talent.

Mack Brown may be known as Mr. February, but hopefully within the next few years hopefully Coach Saban will be known as Mr. January

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

Texas is a big state loaded with talented football players, but UT has to share these recruits with a lot of state schools, as well as raiders from out of state (OU, LSU, etc.) I read a decade ago that Kansas State's best players were mostly from Texas. Heck, Alabama has a player who hails from Texas, I just can't recall who it is...
Bottom line: the Longhorns recruit well in a talent rich state. Shoot, check their national rankings the last few years.

Alabama has Greg McElroy, who is from Southlake, Texas. Eryk Anders is from San Antonio. Damion Square is from Houston. Alabama will sign three more from Texas in the 2010 class. Cade Foster of Southlake, DeAndrew White of the Houston area, as well as Chad Lindsey from The Woodlands. Alabama is also stepping it up more for the 2011 class in the state of Texas.

 

[jps1983]

As Rich has alluded, 'crootin' ain't the alpha and omega. After it ends, player development begins, and that's where Saban excels. Some of the UT guys were complaining about the lack OL development, when the guys were 4* or 5* recruits. Well, we've seen what Connelly could do with highly-ranked OLs, and we've seen what Pendry can do with some of those same guys. BTW, UT plays a technique most of the time which is very close to CBC's. Remember how those guys could run block - not...

UT really does the bucket step? I feel better about our DL vs. their OL now.

 

[twofbyc]

I see your point, but no one has recruiting as good as it could be unless they sign every five star out there and then finish with four stars for the rest of the class. Even then, Rivals or Scout would disagree. Also, MB has to recruit 'his needs' like every other HC, so there will usually be some big ones that get away.

I agree, he has to recruit to his needs, but I think this year (and maybe some in the past), he has reached a full class long before signing day, so he has the option to "take 'em or leave 'em".
I'm just going by what I have heard, and that is that he doesn't have to recruit in the state of Texas, because he gets all the top talent he can handle because they want to play for the 'horns.
Obviously, this is hopefully changing (thanks to Miles and CNS).

 

[TIDE-HSV]

UT really does the bucket step? I feel better about our DL vs. their OL now.

Take a look at some of their games. It's actually a very good pass-blocking technique. It's just the devil to try and run with it. Coach Bryant hated it. In fact, he gave as one of his reasons for retiring that he didn't want to teach kids how to pass block again. He knew the wishbone had come to the end of the road and what had to be done. He just didn't want to be the one to do it...

 

[bamacon]

Well, we've seen what Connelly could do with highly-ranked OLs, and we've seen what Pendry can do with some of those same guys. BTW, UT plays a technique most of the time which is very close to CBC's. Remember how those guys could run block - not...

 

[Longhorn93]

This is not meant as any smack or anything demeaning to Texas or MB, but...
all I hear is how 1) there are 25 million people in Texas, so a lot of talent to choose from, 2) MB doesn't have to recruit, and does very little out-of state, only for the top recruits (Simms was a semi-bust, I know).
So, in almost 12 years, they are playing for the BCSC only for the 2nd time? Sure, I know he has had a great record (128-26 at UT, up until now), but with so much supposed talent, I would have thought they would have played in the title game more than they have (OK, there is an argument for one more title game for them, but it leads down the rabbit hole).
What my question is: with all of the "talent" UT has access to, is it that they aren't signing the best, or is it the coaching that is falling short? With a school that reportedly doesn't "have" to recruit to get top talent, does it have to be one or the other, or is it just bad luck? Although I think the losing streak they had to OU (which has now been reversed somewhat) can't be defined as bad luck.
Thoughts?

Well, consider this. Texas, I would argue, is one victory away from being the team of the decade. Not Florida. Not USC. Not LSU or Ohio State or Oklahoma. Texas. Why? If Texas beats Alabama is the Rose Bowl, they will have two undefeated national championship teams - having gone through two juggernaut teams in USC and this year's Bama squad to achieve it. Florida and LSU have two titles, but neither went undefeated and neither had what I would consider a particularly memorable team. USC has to stretch to claim two titles, one undefeated, the other disputed and not, plus Texas beat USC is the national title head to head. Add the fact that Texas will end the decade as the team with the most wins, having been royally screwed out of even a shot at the title last year, and having narrowly blown another chance against Colorado in 2001, and you have a remarkable run of success and the team of the decade, but ONLY IF we win one more game. Even if we lose, Mack's accomplishments cannot be diminished, even against OU. I believe Mack's record against OU is now 6-6. 3-0 is BCS bowls, 8-3 overall in bowls.

Hook 'em. I'll take Mack as the leader of my program any day of the week and twice on Saturdays. He has been extraordinarily successful and he has done it with class. Throw stones if you must, but there is no mistaking the quality product Mack has consistently produced.

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

Well, consider this. Texas, I would argue, is one victory away from being the team of the decade. Not Florida. Not USC. Not LSU or Ohio State or Oklahoma. Texas. Why? If Texas beats Alabama is the Rose Bowl, they will have two undefeated national championship teams - having gone through two juggernaut teams in USC and this year's Bama squad to achieve it. Florida and LSU have two titles, but neither went undefeated and neither had what I would consider a particularly memorable team. USC has to stretch to claim two titles, one undefeated, the other disputed and not, plus Texas beat USC is the national title head to head. Add the fact that Texas will end the decade as the team with the most wins, having been royally screwed out of even a shot at the title last year, and having narrowly blown another chance against Colorado in 2001, and you have a remarkable run of success and the team of the decade, but ONLY IF we win one more game. Even if we lose, Mack's accomplishments cannot be diminished, even against OU. I believe Mack's record against OU is now 6-6. 3-0 is BCS bowls, 8-3 overall in bowls.

Hook 'em. I'll take Mack as the leader of my program any day of the week and twice on Saturdays. He has been extraordinarily successful and he has done it with class. Throw stones if you must, but there is no mistaking the quality product Mack has consistently produced.

Yet, even as a Longhorn fan, you have to admit it's amazing that Texas hasn't been as dominant in the Big XII as it seems they should. Oklahoma has six Big XII titles, and Texas just won their third (second under Brown).

 

[Longhorn93]

Yet, even as a Longhorn fan, you have to admit it's amazing that Texas hasn't been as dominant in the Big XII as it seems they should. Oklahoma has six Big XII titles, and Texas just won their third (second under Brown).

OU has six, should have 5. Texas has 3, should have 4. 5-4 isn't bad. We can't help that head to head didn't matter last year.

Like the OP said, that whole discussion leads down a rat hole. I'd prefer not to go there.

Bottom line, I wouldn't trade the success Texas has had under Mack with any other program. Beat Bama and it's not really close. High stakes on Jan 7, of course.

 

[CapstoneGrad06]

OU has six, should have 5. Texas has 3, should have 4. 5-4 isn't bad. We can't help that head to head didn't matter last year.

Like the OP said, that whole discussion leads down a rat hole. I'd prefer not to go there.

Bottom line, I wouldn't trade the success Texas has had under Mack with any other program. Beat Bama and it's not really close. High stakes on Jan 7, of course.

What does that mean?

And it's not 5-4. Oklahoma has six. And who's to say Texas would even have beat Missouri? Texas has lost in the Big XII title game to teams they shouldn't have (i.e. Colorado).

 

[sanjosecrimson]

Well, consider this. Texas, I would argue, is one victory away from being the team of the decade. Not Florida. Not USC. Not LSU or Ohio State or Oklahoma. Texas. Why? If Texas beats Alabama is the Rose Bowl, they will have two undefeated national championship teams - having gone through two juggernaut teams in USC and this year's Bama squad to achieve it. Florida and LSU have two titles, but neither went undefeated and neither had what I would consider a particularly memorable team. USC has to stretch to claim two titles, one undefeated, the other disputed and not, plus Texas beat USC is the national title head to head. Add the fact that Texas will end the decade as the team with the most wins, having been royally screwed out of even a shot at the title last year, and having narrowly blown another chance against Colorado in 2001, and you have a remarkable run of success and the team of the decade, but ONLY IF we win one more game. Even if we lose, Mack's accomplishments cannot be diminished, even against OU. I believe Mack's record against OU is now 6-6. 3-0 is BCS bowls, 8-3 overall in bowls.

Hook 'em. I'll take Mack as the leader of my program any day of the week and twice on Saturdays. He has been extraordinarily successful and he has done it with class. Throw stones if you must, but there is no mistaking the quality product Mack has consistently produced.

longhorn,

I beg to differ, if and a big IF Texas beats Bama, it doesn't mean that they are the "team of the decade". what LSU and Florida has done is impressive and nothing will change that even if UT wins its 2nd BCSCG.

UT going undefeated is impressive in their 1st BCS Title and going into their 2nd Title game undefeated again is nothing to sneeze at, but all it means is that they will have the same amount of NC as LSU and UF if they defeat Alabama.

OU has 1 NC BUT has play for a total of 4 in this decade. Yes, they lost all 3 after their initial NC, but to be in that position is truly remarkable!!

OTOH, UT will be playing for their 2nd Title game under MB who has been their for 12 years! we all know how great UT has recruited, but seriously UT can't even dominate their conference to be considered the "team of the Big 12"!?!:conf3:

 

[bayoutider]

Well, consider this. Texas, I would argue, is one victory away from being the team of the decade. Not Florida. Not USC. Not LSU or Ohio State or Oklahoma. Texas. Why? If Texas beats Alabama is the Rose Bowl, they will have two undefeated national championship teams - having gone through two juggernaut teams in USC and this year's Bama squad to achieve it. Florida and LSU have two titles, but neither went undefeated and neither had what I would consider a particularly memorable team. USC has to stretch to claim two titles, one undefeated, the other disputed and not, plus Texas beat USC is the national title head to head. Add the fact that Texas will end the decade as the team with the most wins, having been royally screwed out of even a shot at the title last year, and having narrowly blown another chance against Colorado in 2001, and you have a remarkable run of success and the team of the decade, but ONLY IF we win one more game. Even if we lose, Mack's accomplishments cannot be diminished, even against OU. I believe Mack's record against OU is now 6-6. 3-0 is BCS bowls, 8-3 overall in bowls.

I think this is what we have been saying. Mack Brown seems to always be one game away.

Hook 'em. I'll take Mack as the leader of my program any day of the week and twice on Saturdays. He has been extraordinarily successful and he has done it with class. Throw stones if you must, but there is no mistaking the quality product Mack has consistently produced.

No one is throwing stones, maybe kicking a bit of dust but after all this is an Alabama message board and not the Texas board so we may have a different view of things. Isn't it the same on your boards?

 

[BamaBrass]

Ok now, back to recruiting. You gotta have players to win. I think everybody can agree with that. Mack Brown has done a wonderful job with that. You ALSO have to have a certain mentality or attitude to win big games. UT's is to keep scoring and scoring and scoring. Bama's is to wear you down and make you quit halfway through the 4th quarter. What happens when it is difficult to keep scoring? Your players start to panic and their confidence is shaken. What happens when you quit? The opposing teams resort to fancy stuff that doesn't work or get careless and commit turnovers. In summary, if your good players aren't mentally tough, they aren't any better than medocre players who are mentally tough.

 

[Longhorn93]

longhorn,

I beg to differ, if and a big IF Texas beats Bama, it doesn't mean that they are the "team of the decade". what LSU and Florida has done is impressive and nothing will change that even if UT wins its 2nd BCSCG.

UT going undefeated is impressive in their 1st BCS Title and going into their 2nd Title game undefeated again is nothing to sneeze at, but all it means is that they will have the same amount of NC as LSU and UF if they defeat Alabama.

OU has 1 NC BUT has play for a total of 4 in this decade. Yes, they lost all 3 after their initial NC, but to be in that position is truly remarkable!!

OTOH, UT will be playing for their 2nd Title game under MB who has been their for 12 years! we all know how great UT has recruited, but seriously UT can't even dominate their conference to be considered the "team of the Big 12"!?!:conf3:

I guess it's an opinion, but two undefeated teams, having to beat two other undefeated teams to win two national titles is more impressive than teams with a loss, sometimes multiple, winning titles over other teams that have a loss or two.

The kicker to me is the overall win total during the decade to go with the titles. Again, this is indeed a big IF. Bama may win. But if Texas wins THIS game, I find it difficult to imagine how Texas isn't the team of the decade.