Mike Leach FIRED according to ESPN

So the "punishment" went from "Just apologize to the player" to "being suspended". I could see being "suspended" for not apologizing to the player because you're disobeying your employer. But the report was he was suspended because of the nature of the punishment and it was under further investigation.

Somebody (meaning Texas Tech) needs to make up their minds.


This is only news because Leach refused to apologize when asked to do so by his employer.

Someone from Lubbock just said that Leach's challenge to the suspension was that there was nothing in his contract that allowed for a suspension. He said that the legal challenge probably led to the decision to fire him immediately, as the suspension might have been overturned on that basis... :conf3:
 
So the "punishment" went from "Just apologize to the player" to "being suspended". I could see being "suspended" for not apologizing to the player because you're disobeying your employer. But the report was he was suspended because of the nature of the punishment and it was under further investigation.

Somebody (meaning Texas Tech) needs to make up their minds.

All that we are hearing is just fuel for the fire. We have no idea where the truth lies. I was just sharing another report. But even the earliest reports suggested that Leach was asked to apologize and refused...
 
I hope Leach goes after the James family and ESPN as well. I firmly believe that he'd still have his job (and possibly the right to coach the bowl game), but for Craig James and his speech on ESPN.
 
If the video from the other thread is any indicator of the kind of "facilities" that Adam James was placed in, Mike Leach is going to have a great case to sue the pants off of TTU. Seriously, I was once knocked loopy at football practice in high school, and the trainer immediately thought it might be a mild concussion. What's the first thing they did? They put me on the Gator and drove me under the bleachers, out of the sun, gave me an ice pack and put a fan on me. Sound familiar? Well, I only got one trainer, not three, so in that regard I feel jipped. :)

This is a joke. Mike Leach is a fantastic coach who will not only land on his feet after this, but will be much richer to boot. TTU is going to regret this, and I'm sure we'll see them trying their best to make this go away in the coming days.
 
Can I just say how refreshing it is that this stuff isn't going on in our state? I know it can happen as we have seen more than our fair share of bizarre over the years. I'm just thankful we are on a solid foundation right now.

As for Leach, I agree with NYBamaFan that his form of punishment, at least what we have heard, was uncalled for. It was just immature on his part. That's just my opinion. I don't believe it warranted his firing though, and I believe what the James family has done in all of this, or what has been reported that they've done, was far worse and much more immature.

I also agree that it's going to get much uglier.
 
And this is where we disagree. I don't see what Leach did as an absurd, or cruel form of punishment, and I'd be willing to bet a majority of people agree. Punishing a kid with an attitude problem by putting him in a dark room (with a bike, trainers, water, air conditioning) for a few hours isn't absurd. Even if he had a concussion, he was actually following the Dr's orders. Keep him out of sunlight? He did. Have trainers and medical personnel there to check on him? He did. Have water in case he was thirsty? He did.

To take away a coaches ability to discipline his players is absurd. Esp. when he was following Dr's orders.

^^^^ what you said.I had HS coaches who did things a lot worse than that, for a lot less...only reason they weren't "bizarre" is because they were too stupid to be creative in their methods of punishment...:D
 
I too just checked out the TT message boards and they are ugly. A huge majority of the message board members are up in arms over Coach Leach being fired and there is major hate for Adam Craig and his dad.

This picture is an indication of the mood of those boards. ;)

4229130506_249ceab947_o.jpg
 
If the video of the 'facilities' is to be believed Leach didn't do anything wrong...or at least not enough to fire him. Either way they (tech) went and did it.

My thought is more with this kid...James. Bless his heart. One day he is going to meet someone his daddy can't bully for him (or get fired for him). His life isn't going to be fun when he finds out that the world doesn't revolve just to keep him happy. Feel sorry for him, and this IMO isn't his fault. Its his parents fault for not giving him the tools he needs in this life/world to push through adversity and overcome. Instead if accounts are to be believed his parents have made it possible for him to slack IN life...then expect props anyway. (ALL this I say IF the video is true)

Edited to add: Also this kid has possibly ruined someone's life (along with his family too). God don't like ugly, and eventually imo Karma (God) will hit him back.

People should have to take classes before they get to be parents. :biggrin2:
 
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All that we are hearing is just fuel for the fire. We have no idea where the truth lies. ...

Not exactly true. We do know some things for certain. And the sum total of our experiences enables us to draw reasonable inferences supported by those facts, allowing each of us to arrive at our own conclusions as to where the truth lies. Our entire legal system is built upon these principles, which is where this thing is headed in short order.

I have to discern the truth from competing and adverse testimony every day as part of my job. In my experience, those who provide more specific details, early on, are more likely to be telling the truth. Leach, and his camp, have provided specific details concerning the number of licensed trainers, asst. trainers, and GA's who were present with James in the shed and/or media room. His attorney has also provided a guided tour of both rooms to the news media. His assistant coaches have provided a brief written summary, via email, of James' performance at practice during the days leading up to his discipline.

These details are more than likely true, in my opinion. This is based upon the fact that there are a limited number of trainers, asst. trainers and GA's who work for TT. Thus, they can be identified and questioned, outside the presence of one another, or Leach, about the details of their supervision. If Leach is lying about their supervision, he runs the risk of one of them actually telling the truth. Even if they all tried to lie for him, it is almost impossible, under the scrutiny of questioning by a competent attorney, for 3 people to completely fabricate a lie of this magnitude, and maintain consistent details.

On the other hand, all I have heard out of the pro-James camp is concussion, blah, blah, blah..... . The only thing they specifically have alleged publicly is that he had a concussion diagnosed by a doctor.

But even the earliest reports suggested that Leach was asked to apologize and refused

And I think this is the part that bothers me most of all about the coverage of this situation, and the state of our society in general. In this PC world we live in, where we protect people's feelings like they have a constitutional right to never be offended by anyone else, ever, Leach refused to give a manufactured, half-hearted apology to allow everyone to save face. Then C. James and his wife can feel vindicated; TT can appear responsible for the health of its players; A. James can go back to practice with no consequences; and Leach gets to keep his job.

But buried under all this PC garbage is the principle of honesty and integrity. Leach has to say he is sorry, when he isn't; TT appears to be protecting the health of its players, but James' was never endangered; A. James has failed to learn a lesson about his behavior.
 
Not exactly true. We do know some things for certain. And the sum total of our experiences enables us to draw reasonable inferences supported by those facts, allowing each of us to arrive at our own conclusions as to where the truth lies. Our entire legal system is built upon these principles, which is where this thing is headed in short order.

I have to discern the truth from competing and adverse testimony every day as part of my job. In my experience, those who provide more specific details, early on, are more likely to be telling the truth. Leach, and his camp, have provided specific details concerning the number of licensed trainers, asst. trainers, and GA's who were present with James in the shed and/or media room. His attorney has also provided a guided tour of both rooms to the news media. His assistant coaches have provided a brief written summary, via email, of James' performance at practice during the days leading up to his discipline.

These details are more than likely true, in my opinion. This is based upon the fact that there are a limited number of trainers, asst. trainers and GA's who work for TT. Thus, they can be identified and questioned, outside the presence of one another, or Leach, about the details of their supervision. If Leach is lying about their supervision, he runs the risk of one of them actually telling the truth. Even if they all tried to lie for him, it is almost impossible, under the scrutiny of questioning by a competent attorney, for 3 people to completely fabricate a lie of this magnitude, and maintain consistent details.

On the other hand, all I have heard out of the pro-James camp is concussion, blah, blah, blah..... . The only thing they specifically have alleged publicly is that he had a concussion diagnosed by a doctor.



And I think this is the part that bothers me most of all about the coverage of this situation, and the state of our society in general. In this PC world we live in, where we protect people's feelings like they have a constitutional right to never be offended by anyone else, ever, Leach refused to give a manufactured, half-hearted apology to allow everyone to save face. Then C. James and his wife can feel vindicated; TT can appear responsible for the health of its players; A. James can go back to practice with no consequences; and Leach gets to keep his job.

But buried under all this PC garbage is the principle of honesty and integrity. Leach has to say he is sorry, when he isn't; TT appears to be protecting the health of its players, but James' was never endangered; A. James has failed to learn a lesson about his behavior.

I agree. As a society we are too worried about hurting feelings as opposed to teaching lessons that help to create more productive citizens. I have a feeling that this whole thing is going to backfire on Craig James.
 
Not exactly true. We do know some things for certain. And the sum total of our experiences enables us to draw reasonable inferences supported by those facts, allowing each of us to arrive at our own conclusions as to where the truth lies. Our entire legal system is built upon these principles, which is where this thing is headed in short order.

I have to discern the truth from competing and adverse testimony every day as part of my job. In my experience, those who provide more specific details, early on, are more likely to be telling the truth. Leach, and his camp, have provided specific details concerning the number of licensed trainers, asst. trainers, and GA's who were present with James in the shed and/or media room. His attorney has also provided a guided tour of both rooms to the news media. His assistant coaches have provided a brief written summary, via email, of James' performance at practice during the days leading up to his discipline.

These details are more than likely true, in my opinion. This is based upon the fact that there are a limited number of trainers, asst. trainers and GA's who work for TT. Thus, they can be identified and questioned, outside the presence of one another, or Leach, about the details of their supervision. If Leach is lying about their supervision, he runs the risk of one of them actually telling the truth. Even if they all tried to lie for him, it is almost impossible, under the scrutiny of questioning by a competent attorney, for 3 people to completely fabricate a lie of this magnitude, and maintain consistent details.

On the other hand, all I have heard out of the pro-James camp is concussion, blah, blah, blah..... . The only thing they specifically have alleged publicly is that he had a concussion diagnosed by a doctor.



And I think this is the part that bothers me most of all about the coverage of this situation, and the state of our society in general. In this PC world we live in, where we protect people's feelings like they have a constitutional right to never be offended by anyone else, ever, Leach refused to give a manufactured, half-hearted apology to allow everyone to save face. Then C. James and his wife can feel vindicated; TT can appear responsible for the health of its players; A. James can go back to practice with no consequences; and Leach gets to keep his job.

But buried under all this PC garbage is the principle of honesty and integrity. Leach has to say he is sorry, when he isn't; TT appears to be protecting the health of its players, but James' was never endangered; A. James has failed to learn a lesson about his behavior.

^^Above post = Awesome^^
 
I agree that going to court probably gets you fired, but so far there is no evidence that an internal hearing where Leach got his say. There was no due process of law at all...TTU will pay through the nose for this, and not just in a future lawsuit that Leach will bring. Ticket sales will go way down; recruiting will take a big hit (Leach was actually starting to get a few 4 stars in his classes), and TTU football will suffer. I'm glad I went there the last few years and don't have to suffer through future games (got to see the epic UT/ TTU game last year). They were trying to expand the stadium too and now that won't be a problem. Glad I've grown up a Bama fan and only recently got into Tech football or else I'd be really upset.

Yes there was. Hance told Leach to apologize, Leach refused, and THEN he was suspended as a result. Sounds like this would have already been resolved if Leach would have done what his boss told him to do.
 
This reminds me of how Hawaii let June Jones go (although without so much dramatics and shenanigans). He was a good coach for the school and later the AD was let go for the way he handled it. I expect once the dust settles heads will roll at TT too!
 
After Leach held the school hostage for his contract in early 2009 I am not at all surprised he is gone. My question is this, why did Adam James go willingly into the portable shed. No way on God's Green Earth would I go willingly into a shed (punishment) for 3 hours unless I wanted to. :BigA:

Not sure many on here have children. When a coach punishes a player for not practicing due to a concussion, I have problems with that.

More than 3.5 million sports-related concussions occur each year in the United States, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Brain Injury Association of Washington.

High school football player dies after hard hit | KVAL CBS 13 - News, Weather and Sports - Eugene, OR - Eugene, Oregon | News
Dead athletes' brains show damage from concussions - CNN.com
Montclair H.S. football player dies after suffering brain hemorrhage | New Jersey Real-Time News - - NJ.com

Concussions are serious. Why was James punished? Because he did not want to practice with a Concussion? Fact is the young man had a concussion. The school doctor stated that James had a concussion. The doctor also stated it help James by placing him in the storage shed. :biggrin: I do not care if James practice habits are not up to speed. The real question is James health.

It does not matter what practice habits James had. The decison to punish a player for not practicing with a concussion was stupid.

Hopefully they fired the school doctor as well. Talk about bending the truth.

I spoke to my Doctor here in Key West and ask him what healing factor did the the storage shed contain. My doctor just shook his head and laughed.

If my Doctor does not know then who does! :biggrin:
 
Regarding the apology that leach supposedly refused to offer, from what I have heard it sounds like university officials drafted an apology letter that used language specifically admitting to violating terms of Leach's contract. Leach simply refused to sign a document that in a sense would be an admission that he was in violation of the terms of his contract, specifically some of the clauses mentioned earlier in this thread.
 
Yes there was. Hance told Leach to apologize, Leach refused, and THEN he was suspended as a result. Sounds like this would have already been resolved if Leach would have done what his boss told him to do.

Being ordered to apologize does not equal due process. Maybe we misunderstood each other, but most employers have a process for firing someone for misconduct. At universities, I know teachers go before a review board (so I'd assume its the same for a coach); whereas day jobs might have a system of a written warning (or # of them), then escalating punishments until termination. This might've been resolved with an apology, but being told to apologize did not give Leach his chance to present his case (as required for due process purposes). That is my main issue with the Tech AD.
 
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