How is the church (Christian Church) suppose to operate without tithes?

[GCtidefan]

Who came up with people should give 10%? I have always wondered where that % came from.

The word tithe means a tenth.

 

[teeitup]

Personally I believe the tithe is biblical in both the new and old testament. The bible teaches that without faith it is impossible to please God. Jesus commended the poor lady who gave out of her poverty. She had faith that God would provide.

I would say for the most part most church goers in America have the means to tithe. The problem is, as mentioned above, they do not want to sacrifice any luxury to do so. So they "say", "We don't have the money." I'm not saying there aren't any who literally do not.

I believe God honors those that tithe when it hurts to tithe. I know I've seen it in my family's finances. By no means am I bragging but telling this to show God's faithfulness. There have been times where either I've been out of a job or we had some unfortunate circumstances happen that required us to come out of pocket. Yet we tithed anyway knowing that we really didn't have the money. Yet some how some way God provided. And his "blessings" aren't always in the form of money.

Love this post, so many times in my life, growing up a coal miners daughter, my dad would be laid off or the union would be striking and my dad would stand firm on his faith and support of the church. Blessings come so abudantly when we seem to be at our lowest point and need them most. God ALWAYS provides for us and He is faithful to those who believe.

 

[disneybama]

The problem is, what does give what you can mean? What is Gods and what is ours, and does "what is ours" not come through God?

YouTube - God Pie

The government makes that same argument. You have what you have because of America.

 

[BAMAFAN IN NY]

Who came up with people should give 10%? I have always wondered where that % came from.

and this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God’s house; and of all that you give me I will surely give one-tenth to you

genesis 28:2

 

[kyallie]

I calculated and we give more 10%. I really didn't know, we just try to give what we can. We're truly blessed!

 

[GreatDanish]

This is strictly my opinion.
Jesus Himself told the Pharisees, basically, "You all are great at tithing 'stuff' but you stink at doing the things that are really important."
My personal opinion is that:
(A) I don't think the tithe is supposed to be an item on our checklist that we can check off each Sunday morning when we give. Sometimes I might give 5%, sometimes it may be 50% or even 100%. The tithe is a good benchmark to set, but I think a general "giving attitude" will result in giving much more than 10%. My general rule of thumb is that if I own anything that I am not willing to give up, I'm not "giving" enough. I think of the rich young ruler. I don't think we all have to give away everything, but if we own a nice car that is so nice that if we see "a brother in need" and cannot help because helping him might hurt our car, I'm holding too tightly to my "stuff." If I have a nice house, but I will not offer an extra room to "a brother in need" because he might mess up the new carpet, I'm holding too tightly to my "stuff."
(B) If you attend a church, I think you have an obligation to give to them, whether you agree with how they spend the money or not. If it's an issue that is significant enough to keep you from giving, go to another church.

I do not agree with Dave Ramsey on everything, but this is one thing I completely agree with him on (the following part, anyway): that we give because of what it does for us, not for what it does for the church. We give because it detaches us from the world. Churches need money to operate, but God has done big things without a red cent. If He wants to do big things, He won't be waiting on the church to raise a certain amount of money. He will simply find people that are ready. If money is needed, it will be provided.

I simply hate sermons that say that God can't work and His will cannot be fulfilled if I don't up my giving rate to this particular church by 1%. It might not be phrased just like this, but the idea is there.

We'd be much better served if we simply had an attitude of giving instead of writing the check for 10% each Sunday and leaving it at that. I'd rather give 7% to the church, and give another 7% to buy blankets and coats for homeless people downtown in the winter, or to give to a family I know who can't make rent. I'd rather offer a room in my home as a room that's always available for someone to stay. I'd rather offer my car as always available to help someone in need. I think that's all "giving to God" as stated in the Bible.
I think too many people are content to write a 10% check each Sunday, and their giving is done. I guess my overall point is that the "tithing" or giving has to extend outside of the church walls, regardless of whether you give 6% or 15% to the church. Or, else, we might be guilty of the same thing Jesus accused the Pharisees of: "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone."


Edit: If you read this, I shall give you $100... Sorry for the length.

 

[RamJamHam]

The government makes that same argument. You have what you have because of America.

I don't know about you, but I give a statement made by God Almighty a whole lot more credence than an argument made by the United States government.

Regardless of the amount, it's the spirit of giving that counts. I tithe 10% because God gave me the whole 100% and I want to return a portion to him. If you start out with the premise that it's all God's to give and take away the rest just sort of falls into place.

 

[disneybama]

Let me put it another way. Churches are run by people - not God. I don't think that God wants gymnasiums and the like in His church. I suspect that he would rather see that money spent on the needy or spreading His word. And if you remove these "extras", you will find that you can effectively run your churches on so much less. You might also find that your focus comes back to God's work.

I have never gone into a church and wondered what it could do for me or my family. This is something that I simply cannot fathom. :conf3:

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Tithe means 10%.

Who came up with people should give 10%? I have always wondered where that % came from.

 

[bamanut_aj]

Edit: If you read this, I shall give you $100... Sorry for the length.

cash???

 

[bamanut_aj]

I have never gone into a church and wondered what it could do for me or my family. This is something that I simply cannot fathom. :conf3:

it's not what the church can do for you, it's what God can do for you, and others, through His Church.

I hear a lot of people poo-poo'ing the Church, all the while giving some sort of props to Jesus and saying "I don't need a church, I need Jesus." Jesus is the cornerstone of His Church, so I'd say it's kind of a big deal to Him.

 

[disneybama]

it's not what the church can do for you, it's what God can do for you, and others, through His Church.

I hear a lot of people poo-poo'ing the Church, all the while giving some sort of props to Jesus and saying "I don't need a church, I need Jesus." Jesus is the cornerstone of His Church, so I'd say it's kind of a big deal to Him.

His church is not a building.

 

[bamanut_aj]

His church is not a building.

that is correct........

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Well unfortunately you are of the VAST minority. Most families when searching for a church to attend normally go through a mental checklist very similar to the following:

1. What do they have for my kids?
2. Do I like the style of music being played in the worship service?
3. Do I like the preaching style of the pastor?

The most common reasons people leave a church:

1. There was nothing there for my kids.
2. I didn't like the music or the style of worship.
3. I wasn't "getting anything out of" the sermons.

Now what is the common theme in the above?

Very rare do you have people take the mindset of:

1. How can I serve at this church?
a. Is there something this church doesn't currently have that my talents can start up here to help?


You see God has it setup that when a person genuinely gives they automatically receive. It's a beautiful thing. Many, many times God meets our spiritual needs THROUGH our giving/serving. I can't tell you the Christians that leave a church because they say "My spiritual needs weren't getting met." Yet if you look at their service within the church they DO nothing. They go to another church, thinking that since this new church offers more "stuff" they'll be satisfied there. Only to realize after the sugar high wears off the new they are just as unsatisfied. In a Christians life to have your needs met you have to give. It's how God set it up.

Let me put it another way. Churches are run by people - not God. I don't think that God wants gymnasiums and the like in His church. I suspect that he would rather see that money spent on the needy or spreading His word. And if you remove these "extras", you will find that you can effectively run your churches on so much less. You might also find that your focus comes back to God's work.

I have never gone into a church and wondered what it could do for me or my family. This is something that I simply cannot fathom. :conf3:

 

[bamanut_aj]

Well unfortunately you are of the VAST minority. Most families when searching for a church to attend normally go through a mental checklist very similar to the following:

1. What do they have for my kids?
2. Do I like the style of music being played in the worship service?
3. Do I like the preaching style of the pastor?

The most common reasons people leave a church:

1. There was nothing there for my kids.
2. I didn't like the music or the style of worship.
3. I wasn't "getting anything out of" the sermons.
Now what is the common theme in the above?

Very rare do you have people take the mindset of:

1. How can I serve at this church?
a. Is there something this church doesn't currently have that my talents can start up here to help?


You see God has it setup that when a person genuinely gives they automatically receive. It's a beautiful thing. Many, many times God meets our spiritual needs THROUGH our giving/serving. I can't tell you the Christians that leave a church because they say "My spiritual needs weren't getting met." Yet if you look at their service within the church they DO nothing. They go to another church, thinking that since this new church offers more "stuff" they'll be satisfied there. Only to realize after the sugar high wears off the new they are just as unsatisfied. In a Christians life to have your needs met you have to give. It's how God set it up.

that one burns me up. I got into a fairly heated argument with an elder at a previous church. The church continued to 'mess' with things in an attempt to 'get more out' of them. I suggested, privately, that maybe the issue wasn't with the music or the communion, but possibly an inward issue. That wasn't well received.....

 

[disneybama]

...You see God has it setup that when a person genuinely gives they automatically receive. It's a beautiful thing. Many, many times God meets our spiritual needs THROUGH our giving/serving. I can't tell you the Christians that leave a church because they say "My spiritual needs weren't getting met." Yet if you look at their service within the church they DO nothing. They go to another church, thinking that since this new church offers more "stuff" they'll be satisfied there. Only to realize after the sugar high wears off the new they are just as unsatisfied. In a Christians life to have your needs met you have to give. It's how God set it up.

Maybe that is why, as an adult, I have always been drawn to very small congregations. Everyone has to help or it all falls apart. It is never about the money, it is always about our time. But we are a family.

As an aside - we have a few very, very rich members in our congregation. They, like everyone else, primarily give their time. They also occasionally give more that they should (monetarily) when we need to do work on the church. I say more than they should because it creates a dependency on these two families. The last time we needed to do some work, I talked everyone into doing fundraisers instead of letting these families pay (though they offered). We raised the money with no difficulty, even in this economy.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

And I think you're exactly right. I've never understood why churches spend literally millions of dollars on "Life Centers" or "Activity Centers" yet after the new wears off of them are rarely used. I also do not understand why we are seeing more and more people wanting to be paid to serve in the church. Whether it be worship team members that sings or play instruments. Or the person that is the "nursery director", "Sunday School Director" etc.

God gives us gifts to use within the church to serve and then there are many that are now turning around and wanting the Church to pay them for using their gifts. Isn't that much like us bailing the banks out with tax payer money then having them turn around and lend us our money and charge us for it? :conf3:

Let me put it another way. Churches are run by people - not God. I don't think that God wants gymnasiums and the like in His church. I suspect that he would rather see that money spent on the needy or spreading His word. And if you remove these "extras", you will find that you can effectively run your churches on so much less. You might also find that your focus comes back to God's work.

I have never gone into a church and wondered what it could do for me or my family. This is something that I simply cannot fathom. :conf3:

 

[rizolltizide]

An interesting conversation struck up at church last week regarding the new testament biblical teaching regarding tithing. There were several couples (under the age of 35) that said they do not tithe because it's not scriptural in the new testament.

In the Christian church there is a growing number of young people (under age 35) that believe they are not required to tithe to the church and they do not tithe and have no intentions of tithing. But then the question has to come up. How does the church continue to operate without monetary tithes? What if everyone in the church adopted this belief? This question came up last week when this topic was brought up and the people that said tithing wasn't required had no answer. What are your thoughts?

Before I read the rest of this thread, becuase I know it's gonna be a good one, the church isn't going to operate without tithes, unless they can make enough off bake sales to foot the bills which I highly doubt. But...I don't believe that you should have to tithe in order to attend and worship. To say otherwise, to me, would be the ultimate in hypocrisy.

And now I'll read the rest of this one and I'm sure be enraged and amused all at the same time.

EDIT: I read it and I'm not enraged.

 

[bamanut_aj]

Before I read the rest of this thread, becuase I know it's gonna be a good one, the church isn't going to operate without tithes, unless they can make enough off bake sales to foot the bills which I highly doubt. But...I don't believe that you should have to tithe in order to attend and worship. To say otherwise, to me, would be the ultimate in hypocrisy.

And now I'll read the rest of this one and I'm sure be enraged and amused all at the same time.

EDIT: I read it and I'm not enraged.

Hanuman is angry that you only gave him one banana at church last week. And also that it happened to be the banana you pleasured yourself with, you dirty monkey.

 

[always4bama]

Being married to a pastor I find this conversation quite interesting. My husband has just finished a series of sermons on tithing. The parable of the rich young ruler who was required to give his all and the widow who gave her all are pointing towards the tithe. You also see it in the lives of the churches that Paul and other disciples started, the new believers gave to support the work and the workers. Paul was also bi-vocational in his ministry.

Even though the word tithe is not used in the New Testament we have to remember that Jesus came to full fill the law not to destroy the law. I take this to mean in part that Jesus made all things complete therefore the tithe is still part of our calling/responsibility.

In regards to how much do you pay the pastor/staff. In our life we have never refused a call based on the salary - there has even been a time when we took a cut in pay to accept a church because we felt that was the direction the Lord was leading. Scripture teaches us we are to be servants worthy of hire, this applies to both church and secular employment. The stories I could tell about attitudes on this subject.

I agree too with those that have stated as long as we are faithful in our tithes we have never gone without, there have been times when there was no surplus but all needs and financial obligations have been met.

I think it comes down to a matter of the heart do we give out of obligation (the church will take it) or do you worship in giving. This is where the church has made a big mistake in our service time. It is now more of a transition in the service or tacked on to the service. In the Old Testament when he tithe was gathered and sacrifice made it was a time of celebration. I think the offering time in our service should be done with a better attitude of worship.