I encountered two pet peeves at a lacrosse game last night.

Thanks Ca. That should be in blue font.
I wouldn't say good job but I would say good try. I have a great deal of experience in youth sports at the recreational level and the competitive level.
The primary job of youth sports is to impart a knowledge of the rules and techniques of play of the sport being played. The primary goal of the youth coach isto instill a love of the game.

I have seen many players who had little skill but tried hard. My son played HS varsity soccer for four years. We played New Hope High School every year. New Hope won, I think, one game in 4 years. They had no coach for practice. A volunteer coach from across the county would show up on game day. These young men, whose school record was about 1-79 played hard and to the best of their limited ability and never gave up. They remained good sports. The parents of the team were the most positive and gracious hosts you can imagine. These boys won no titles and only one game. Imagine the heart ache of losing game after game. But every player on that team deserved many accolades and certainly a trophy. Every time I hear some one say about a team "They don't deserve a trophy. They didn't win anything". I think of the boys from New Hope. Those boys deserved recognition as much as some high powered team that cruised to victory after victory. Like the state champions that beat them like a drum twice every year for 4 years.

Perhaps you are familiar with the behavioral concept of shaping. The closest approximation of a behavior that a subject is capable of is rewarded.

Perhaps last year MacKenzie the lacrosse goalie was so afraid of the ball she wouldn't move toward it. Maybe this season she moves toward it and she should be rewarded because she is getting better.

A carrot is better than a stick IMO.
Again, no where have I mentioned the stick. But from what is described, she's getting the 'carrot' and her 'favorite dessert' as well.

The reality is we have been raising kids for a couple of decades now that have always been told they can 'do whatever they want' and are never told they simply aren't good at something. Or that they're not working hard enough.

I'm not saying she should be told she sucks, but you don't have to give her compliments on her play when she does suck. Encourage her to work harder, encourage her to strive to be better - but telling her 'good job' when she scores for the other team is ridiculous.

Sports teach us a lot of things about the real world - one of those is, quite frankly, no one at her future place of employment is likely to care one bit if it hurts her feelings that she's fired because she sucks at her job...
 
My wife and I, both high school teachers, have noticed this in the classroom and when we have coached - it's a lot harder to get a lot of these students to want to win and compete. Or, they want to but the first sign of adversity, they give up and despair at how "hard" it is to win. Coming from the cross country/track & field background, I wonder if I encouraged my kids to pursue individual sports (running, swimming, golf, tennis), would they be more exposed to taking on challenges and actually trying hard to win? Maybe, I have no idea.
 
My wife and I, both high school teachers, have noticed this in the classroom and when we have coached - it's a lot harder to get a lot of these students to want to win and compete. Or, they want to but the first sign of adversity, they give up and despair at how "hard" it is to win. Coming from the cross country/track & field background, I wonder if I encouraged my kids to pursue individual sports (running, swimming, golf, tennis), would they be more exposed to taking on challenges and actually trying hard to win? Maybe, I have no idea.
And this is why positive reinforcement is key when coaching or having your kid play youth sports, having done so I myself.
 
No one is suggesting that she should be berated for her poor play, but there's no reason to act like she's doing a good job if she's not. That does nothing to motivate her to work to improve and sows seeds of frustration among the players that actually work hard to be good.

Agreed. No one yelled at the kids. Most, like me, cheered the few times things went well and just stayed quiet during the rest of the game. The few loud parents were the ones that offered congratulations at every sorry event. The goalie received such over-the-top praise during the game that there is no incentive for her to increase her skill level. Why strive for an A when you can get maximum praise for a D? IMO, there should be some joy to winning and some disappointment at losing.

I'm not saying that winning is the most important thing or even remotely important at this level. It's not. But, playing to win is important. Several of the girls were quite content with the butt kicking they received. Lily gets it; she rolled her eyes at the undeserved praise. She said she didn't want to be treated like a baby. We agreed that she did some things well (especially considering it was her first box lacrosse game and there is no practice during the summer league) and has room to improve. She gets it.
 
Not sure it can be linked yet since it was just tonight, but Teddy Atlas went through the roof over the boxing match tonight, and the message will make the OP's day. It's on ESPN's home page right now.
 
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I love the Herm Edwards video. They keep score for a reason. If that bothers "you" and "your kid" then go do something else. The rest of "us" are here to win.

I love Hern Edwards myself. Course in that video Herm is talking about professional football in his position as a professional football coach of the New York Jets. Big difference between that and say T-Ball. I always tried to win every game but winning every game is rare.

I remember in T-Ball, we kept score. But the kids didn't seem to care about the score. They were more interested in getting their free coke from the concession stand after the game. The parents seemed to care much more than the kids. Youth sports is not Alabama football or school sports for that matter. Relax. Enjoy the game.


BB how far would you go to win a game?
 
I would say the "Boys from New Hope" deserved praise for their great effort, praise for having a great attitude and an encouraging message from the coach to keep trying. I think they deserved to have a great pool party and cookout at the end of the season. But no way I would have handed out trophies. I'm not criticizing you if that's what you did. But I simply couldn't and wouldn't have done that.
My son didn't play for New Hope. He played for the Madison County High School Tigers. I do agree that as the kids get older they care less and less about trophies. By the time the kids get to school or club ball they have a ridiculous amount of trophies and they are out of room on the bookshelf. After 10 and Under we would have a cookout and pool party and we would compliment the kids on their effort etc in front of the group. No trophies. But sometimes the Mommas would get together and get individual trophies anyway. You gonna buck the Mommas?
I ain't.
 
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As with anything that starts out with good intentions. When people are involved, it doesn't take long to get out of hand and become counter productive. The "we're just out here to have fun" mantra started from a legitimate point. "Winning" and "winning at all cost" in many cases with youth sports, had gotten out of hand. However, in the move to correct it, came a point of "over correction". Which is where we are currently. Somewhere in the correction, wanting to win the game, having a strong drive to win, holding kids to a standard of effort became a part of the criteria of "You're out here for the wrong reasons" and "You're taking it too seriously". "To be out here for the right reasons" means you have to exhibit no desire to win the game, not expect the kids to give a 100% effort, overly praising them no matter what they do or how they do it and god forbid under NO CIRCUMSTANCE do you criticize the kid. What most people call "positive reinforcement" is nothing more than code word for coddle little johnny and tell him what a great job he's doing no matter how wrong he's doing it. That it's better to not hurt his feelings than telling him he's doing something wrong,, show him what he's doing wrong and do things to correct it.

From a personal standpoint, I use youth sports (in this case baseball) to teach my kids lessons about life. I push them to get better, I pick them up and encourage them when they look to be losing confidence. I jump their butt when I feel that's what they need. I teach them no matter whether they win or lose, to give it their all and at the end of it all if you lose the game. Then oh well. You did your best. No need to hang your head. But the design and nature of sports (in which they keep score) is to win the game. And there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with teaching a kid to want to win. I don't see how anyone can try to instill in a kid the drive to succeed and to give it their all yet at the same time not care about winning or losing. It's counter productive to what you're trying to teach the kid. I've NEVER seen a kid or an adult at that, have a good to great work ethic, yet care nothing about the final results. I've just never seen it.

I think part of the problem is that you've got a lot people who on a personal level don't like how competition makes them feel. It makes them feel uncomfortable. So they think it makes everyone feel that way. But in reality a lot of people enjoy how competition makes them feel. It brings a good and positive feeling to them. I loved and still love competition. It creates an exciting and fun atmosphere. However, I do know competition isn't for everybody. Some people get anxiety (the bad kind) and it makes them sick to their stomach. They run from it at all costs or they break their necks to remove it from the situation they're in by making people feel bad. IMO, people like this need to find something else for them and their kids to do, rather than trying to convey the false narrative that competition and wanting to win is a bad thing. I completely understand now why travel ball (with any youth sport) has taken off the way it has.
 
Not who you intended to answer the question, but I'd do anything legal.

And I'd also do this, if it went the wrong way:

I've watched this clip dozens of times. It's one of my favorite moments in sports. The stakes weren't super high but nobody would have ever said a word is Sock had just let it go by but the quality of the match and the investment from the crowd went through the roof because he chose to do the right thing.
 
As with anything that starts out with good intentions. When people are involved, it doesn't take long to get out of hand and become counter productive. The "we're just out here to have fun" mantra started from a legitimate point. "Winning" and "winning at all cost" in many cases with youth sports, had gotten out of hand. However, in the move to correct it, came a point of "over correction". Which is where we are currently. Somewhere in the correction, wanting to win the game, having a strong drive to win, holding kids to a standard of effort became a part of the criteria of "You're out here for the wrong reasons" and "You're taking it too seriously". "To be out here for the right reasons" means you have to exhibit no desire to win the game, not expect the kids to give a 100% effort, overly praising them no matter what they do or how they do it and god forbid under NO CIRCUMSTANCE do you criticize the kid. What most people call "positive reinforcement" is nothing more than code word for coddle little johnny and tell him what a great job he's doing no matter how wrong he's doing it. That it's better to not hurt his feelings than telling him he's doing something wrong,, show him what he's doing wrong and do things to correct it.

From a personal standpoint, I use youth sports (in this case baseball) to teach my kids lessons about life. I push them to get better, I pick them up and encourage them when they look to be losing confidence. I jump their butt when I feel that's what they need. I teach them no matter whether they win or lose, to give it their all and at the end of it all if you lose the game. Then oh well. You did your best. No need to hang your head. But the design and nature of sports (in which they keep score) is to win the game. And there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with teaching a kid to want to win. I don't see how anyone can try to instill in a kid the drive to succeed and to give it their all yet at the same time not care about winning or losing. It's counter productive to what you're trying to teach the kid. I've NEVER seen a kid or an adult at that, have a good to great work ethic, yet care nothing about the final results. I've just never seen it.

I think part of the problem is that you've got a lot people who on a personal level don't like how competition makes them feel. It makes them feel uncomfortable. So they think it makes everyone feel that way. But in reality a lot of people enjoy how competition makes them feel. It brings a good and positive feeling to them. I loved and still love competition. It creates an exciting and fun atmosphere. However, I do know competition isn't for everybody. Some people get anxiety (the bad kind) and it makes them sick to their stomach. They run from it at all costs or they break their necks to remove it from the situation they're in by making people feel bad. IMO, people like this need to find something else for them and their kids to do, rather than trying to convey the false narrative that competition and wanting to win is a bad thing. I completely understand now why travel ball (with any youth sport) has taken off the way it has.
There's a lot of good things going on in this post. Really like what you had to say about how competition makes some people feel uncomfortable and anxious. Very true and totally understandable. There's pressure in competition. A risk of failure. There are literal black and white standards for success and failure and very little gray area. I WIN you LOSE or vice versa. Those kind of results absolutely play a role in a child's development. While losing can be painful I think it's more harmful to shield a child from that.
I remember the mixed emotion of losing a baseball game but having gone 4-4 at bat with 2 outs tossed from shortstop. I personally had a good game but still felt like we as a team had failed.

I agree with you. I have nothing but fond memories of playing very competitive baseball for nearly a decade of my life but I completely understand why it would make some uncomfortable.
 
Back when I was a kid, you watched these guys.....

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Wow, so much violence.....;)

All I see is a bunch of white privilege ;)
 
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